theory11 — Magic Tricks & the World's Finest Playing Cards
Hey I am 16 and I am putting out Lecture notes and a DVD...Cool huh?
- Thread starter Justin Miller
- Start date
- Status
Thanks RJ, i always did kinda like you... hahaha
Yeah things between me and Justin are all worked out, so i think
i have the right to state my opinion.
Age, DOES NOT matter! EXPERIENCE matters! Like what all the other 100
or so people to say this, if a 17 year old, has been doing magic since the age of
7, and has been doing an original effect since he was 10, and he decided to release it, I think 7 years is enough time to perfect ONE effect!
If a 35 year old, has even been doing magic HIS WHOLE LIFE, but has only been doing an effect for maybe only a year... OR LESS! Does he have the right to sell it, since he's not one of those stereotype kids! H-E-C-K NO!!!
So, Age doesnt matter in my opinion it all comes down to the time and effort spent into something.
Thanks for listening,
Calvin Lauber
you also have to have at least a size 10 shoe and wear abercrombie and fitch clothing in order to realse a dvd or notes
Never mind. Thinking about it now, you probably support young kids selling their ideas for a trick.
*cough* Factory Sealed *cough* Bullet *cough*
Sorry I have a cold.
LOL! I would never in my life wear abercrombie and fitch.
Your attempts to re-kindle this fire and make people mad is not appreciated by anyone here, no matter what their opinion on this topic is.
If you can't discuss this maturely, go away.
No RJ I do not owe Calvin an apology for any reason. And another thing you have no right and authority in my life to tell me what to say and who to say it to. Further, for you to make a judgement on WHY I said it without knowing my heart is totally ignorant on your part. It was not to embaress Calvin..not in the least. Trust me I think Duffies review did enough of that on its own (which I have already said I DO NOT AGREE WITH EVERYTHING DUFFIE SAID).
And no it was not out of line it was the truth spoken in love and concern nothing less. So if you want to try and argue with me on THAT matter go ahead you have already lost becuase you do not know my heart in this matter.
Truth is I have planned this post for a long-time..the MAGIC review just put he last ember on the wood for me.
Justin N. Miller
For once in a blue moon I agree with rj. Now that you posted this, when and if he does develop and get a name for himself, people are just going to see him as the kid who couldn't wait to put out a dvd, and not the performer that he truly is. I also think it was out of line to put his real name in the post.
See that is where you are wrong. I can name A NUMBER of guys when they were younger tripped and fell just like Clavin and now they are magic super-stars and NO ONE remembers what they did..you know why? BECUASE THEY OWNED UP TO IT AT SOMETIME IN THEIR CARREER. And now they better respected now than ever before. And trust me these are some BIG names.
No Calvin will be just fine.
Justin N. Miller
No Calvin will be just fine.
Justin N. Miller
Having only logged in roughly five minutes ago and read Justin's first essay, and a few of the replys I must say that any respect that I had for Justin Miller has seriosly took a battering. This is my response.
Being a young magician myself (15) I can share some of his veiws and frustration with the current new generation of young and eager magicians. They have been raised to think that with spending $30 on the latest Ellusionist product they can become the next David Blaine, or that a deck of cards with a piss yellow tinge, and a few cracks will make them a cardistry super star. (Btw the buck twins.... shouldn't have went anywere near putting their name on them)
But Miller, you cannot attack a problem, but then become part of the core reasons for that problem. By joining "E" and endorsing, advertising and selling products you have proved that you are worse than the magicians you dislike for feeding them the very capatalist fuel to become annoying, fame seaking individuals.
Joe.
Being a young magician myself (15) I can share some of his veiws and frustration with the current new generation of young and eager magicians. They have been raised to think that with spending $30 on the latest Ellusionist product they can become the next David Blaine, or that a deck of cards with a piss yellow tinge, and a few cracks will make them a cardistry super star. (Btw the buck twins.... shouldn't have went anywere near putting their name on them)
But Miller, you cannot attack a problem, but then become part of the core reasons for that problem. By joining "E" and endorsing, advertising and selling products you have proved that you are worse than the magicians you dislike for feeding them the very capatalist fuel to become annoying, fame seaking individuals.
Joe.
Justin, please don't take this the wrong way, I'm a big fan of your works, but the way you put that, it sounded like you were trying to get rid of competition. Yes, I agree with you that somebody with little experience shouldn't attempt such a feat, but you as a person/magician shouldn't stop somebody from.. well what this guy Calvin tried doing. I have to say, I'm pretty disappointed Justin...
-Brundo
P.S. I just remembered why your "tone" sounded familiar; my friend has a friend that is what we would call a layman. He pretty much sucks at magic and my friend won't stop ranting to me abiut how much he sucks and stuff... Yeah...
-Brundo
P.S. I just remembered why your "tone" sounded familiar; my friend has a friend that is what we would call a layman. He pretty much sucks at magic and my friend won't stop ranting to me abiut how much he sucks and stuff... Yeah...
I don't understand why people are jumping all over Justin for this. He is dead right.
He is saying if you do not have enough experience in magic, you should not release a dvd, or notes or what ever. A lot of people are mad because he put an age limit, and a lot of you fall into that age limit. Even me. How many of you here really think you have the experience to release notes or a dvd?
I have many effects that I have made, but I'm not going to release notes or make dvd's until I get better.
Justin is 100% right. Now I understand that you can be really good and still be young. Like I think the buck twins where releasing things when they where young. But thats because they are not human. And if you happen to be like the bucks and are not human, you can release effects to because the age limit only apples to humans.
He is saying if you do not have enough experience in magic, you should not release a dvd, or notes or what ever. A lot of people are mad because he put an age limit, and a lot of you fall into that age limit. Even me. How many of you here really think you have the experience to release notes or a dvd?
I have many effects that I have made, but I'm not going to release notes or make dvd's until I get better.
Justin is 100% right. Now I understand that you can be really good and still be young. Like I think the buck twins where releasing things when they where young. But thats because they are not human. And if you happen to be like the bucks and are not human, you can release effects to because the age limit only apples to humans.
Its very understandable that Mr. Miller is upset about an amateur magician releasing what he thinks is "ground-breaking". Those people are only diluting the quality that lies in the lecture notes and DVDs of the masters. However, I don't agree with him saying that young people "have no right" to release material. If someone has great ideas, some experience, a humble attitude, and a clear mind that knows whats good and what isn't, then there is no reason why they shouldn't share what they have. Don't get me wrong, I have no problems with Justin's argument, I just don't want young people to see this a statement that says they can't and shouldn't make a difference in the magic community.
Adrian
Adrian
Apparently you've found a loophole....And, Justin shame on you, there are plenty of kids who have the potential, look at King Rising levitation, not the best, but it was put out by a 15 year old, look where it is today! LOOK!!!
No you bloody well can't! You would not have the experience or presence yet to carry off something like this.
Look, the plain and simple fact is the market is being overloaded with junk. Pure, unfiltered junk. And a lot of this junk comes from this age group, where "magicians" believe they've invented the next best thing, then release it on the market with mediocre media and bad production quality. Their reputation becomes tarnished, and people get black-labelled for a long time, simply because they didn't wait to put out a quality product. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG IN WAITING A FEW YEARS TO RELEASE YOURSELF. If it's that revolutionary, people won't be champing at the bti to get it out, and you can sit back and work with it for a few years, making damn sure it's tried and tested.
To those who are protesting the age bracket - he was only being general. There are exceptions, but these QUALITY exceptions are few and far between. The majority of kids that put out CRAP thinking it's gold are huge when compared to other age-groups, and these kids can be helped! They're deluded, rather than arrogant, and this is why this post can make a difference.
I'm smack-bang in this age bracket. I don't see myself as the future of magic, or as the next revolution. I see myself as a humble student, hoping to help and learn with whoever wants to achieve within the craft. I do not have delusions of glory, and I do not think that my double lift needs to be shown to the masses. I take and I take and I take. And maybe, when I have learned and am starting to create myself, people might take an interest in what I'm doing and WANT my effects.
Don't go and try and create a market for your release. Go out, perform, and IF there is a demand for your repetoire, then go out and feed that demand.
That is the real deal.
Ty
And, Justin shame on you, there are plenty of kids who have the potential, look at King Rising levitation, not the best, but it was put out by a 15 year old, look where it is today! LOOK!!!
Look, can't you see why Justin emphasized on 11-21?
That's because many people (not all of them) from this age group tend to be too eager for quick success. WHY? Because many teenagers (again, NOT ALL) have not been out in the real world (magic and the society) and experienced life as independent people.
It is only in recognizing your naive nature and understanding what "lack of experience" means that you can go about fixing the problem. You can't start to become "experienced" until you understand your naivety.
Just be honest, when you were a teenager (or maybe you are right now), you must have thought that you are the smartest person in the world, that you know everything and that all the adults around you are simply idiots. That is what SOME teenagers (I really have to emphasize that I'm not talking about all teenagers are like that, but yet, many are) feel when they get into magics.
Thus, the sooner you realize how "ignorant" you are, the more successful you can be.
So why Justin Miller chose 11-21? That's because, this "period of self-praise" generally starts with puberty. I guess you'll be agree with me that this module will grows to some maximum and thus collapses at the age, say, generally at age of 22-23.
So everyone in the age of 22 and above can release a dvd and lecture notes then?
You are absolutely wrong. Those people have LESS (I didn't say "they DON'T self-praise") tendency to self-praise, BUT they may be inexperienced.
So what's the point of emphasizing on 11-21, if 22 and above can also be as inexperienced as those of 11-21?
You are absolutely right on that. BUT 22-above tend to realize how naive they are; Thus, they won't just release anything that are "not too good".
This self-praise problem affects all teenagers. As soon as you realize, for whatever reason, that you don’t have all of the answers but the adults standing all around you actually do, you begin to become an adult. The sooner that transformation occurs, the better. The same can be applied to the magic community.
Before you drag out all the exceptions (i.e. Buck twins, Mozart, you name it), step back a little bit, and think: " Are all those young magicians that you are argueing for really one of the exceptions?"
Yes, they are the future of magic community; but maybe....not right now, when they are still LACK OF EXPERIENCE!
Last edited by a moderator:
- Status