Piracy explanation

[tesla1990]

I had a few questions on piracy

1) is it ok to use a magic trick if you bought it from the magician for example if you bought the sinful trick from wayne houchins can you use it in a professional magic show.

2) can you use tricks you learned in magic kits in pro. shows?

3) is it ok to use card tricks you learned online in pro. shows?

please answer as I want to respect the craft and the magicians who invented the amazing tricks, and forgive me because im new ^^

 

[saborfang17]

I had a few questions on piracy

1) is it ok to use a magic trick if you bought it from the magician for example if you bought the sinful trick from wayne houchins can you use it in a professional magic show.

2) can you use tricks you learned in magic kits in pro. shows?

3) is it ok to use card tricks you learned online in pro. shows?

please answer as I want to respect the craft and the magicians who invented the amazing tricks, and forgive me because im new ^^

1. Yes, you can. But it depends on how professional. If it's going to be on national television, I would contact them just to be safe, ask them if you can perform their trick. Although once you've bought it, for most tricks, you're free to perform it. A lot of big stage illusions require rights from the original creator, though.

2. Yes, you can. That's the entire PURPOSE of those kits, to learn tricks and use them.

3. As long as it isn't pirated material you downloaded free when it's still being sold, yes. You can.

 

[William Draven]

The short version of the long debate is this:
It's okay to use an effect in your show or perform an effect so long as you paid to learn it. Unless otherwise specifically stated once you purchase the effect, you also purchase the performance rights. It is unethical to perform something you learned from a tutorial on youtube (for example) provided that the tutorial is of a product that the creator of said tutorial doesn't own the rights to.
Example: Person X creates a youtube tutorial of Wayne Houchins Stigmata.

However if the tutorial is of that persons own personal work or creation then it's fair game, because they created it, they can choose how they want to release it.

The lines start to get fuzzy when you move from just performing X effect to doing it on mass media such as TV. That's when it gets complicated, and you'll want to get permission to do an effect if you don't already own the rights to it, because you created it.

 

[tesla1990]

well I ask this because I purchased criss angel's mental freak trick and it said on the FBI warning that i could only use it only for home use and i cant re create it or use it publicly. so im kinda confused tht i didnt purchase the rights t use tht trick by buying the trick @.@?

 

[saborfang17]

well I ask this because I purchased criss angel's mental freak trick and it said on the FBI warning that i could only use it only for home use and i cant re create it or use it publicly. so im kinda confused tht i didnt purchase the rights t use tht trick by buying the trick @.@?

That's for viewing. You can't hook it up to a big screen and show it in like a mini theater, or create a copy of it. But you're allowed to perform it.

 

[tesla1990]

so if i understand right, i could use his mental freak at a childrens birthday party and get money for performing tht trick and others?

 

[tesla1990]

ok three more questions please ^^

1) so criss angel put up some vides where he taught tricks like the joker catch, the pencil stab,the pepper shaker thrugh the table. now I can use these in a professional show (kids bday party) and get money using these tricks and others?

2) i want to buy criss angels magic kit but im unsure if its copyrighted. again id want to use these tricks at bday parties for money, could i do tht?

and 3) I can use criss angels mental freak (that i bought) at a childrens party for monetary gain?

 

[notsoltd]

yes, yes, and yes

 

[CaseyRudd]

well I ask this because I purchased criss angel's mental freak trick and it said on the FBI warning that i could only use it only for home use and i cant re create it or use it publicly. so im kinda confused tht i didnt purchase the rights t use tht trick by buying the trick @.@?

This is the FBI Warning for burning a new disc, recreating the same disc and selling it for your personal gain, or showing it to a crowd of a lot of people. If it was talking about the tricks, then you bought the DVD for nothing because you can't perform any of it (which isn't the case here).

 

[William Draven]

ok three more questions please ^^

1) so criss angel put up some vides where he taught tricks like the joker catch, the pencil stab,the pepper shaker thrugh the table. now I can use these in a professional show (kids bday party) and get money using these tricks and others?

Yes. He's only teaching you tricks that were around long before he was. He's just teaching you his version. You buy the effect, you have the permission to perform it. I just wouldn't do it on TV. Not that I think that will be a concern for you.

2) i want to buy criss angels magic kit but im unsure if its copyrighted. again id want to use these tricks at bday parties for money, could i do that?

Well you -could- use these effects at birthday parties and etc, but why would you want to? Those effects are going to have his logo, his name, and his image ALL over them. Your WAY better off going to a magic store and buying the "generic" non Criss Angel version of those same effects, and then performing those.

and 3) I can use criss angels mental freak (that i bought) at a childrens party for monetary gain?

Once again, Party yes, TV no.

 

[tesla1990]

well it wasnt a dvd it was six cards and an instruction manual

 

[William Draven]

well it wasnt a dvd it was six cards and an instruction manual

Wait... so he produces a packet trick, and then slaps an FBI warning on it prohibitting someone from using his trick for anything outside of home/ private use?

Man what an egotistical dick.

Stop buying his merch, you want to be a pro? Get as far away from Criss Angel as you can. Don't buy his crap, or perform things he teaches. Yes, if he put that kind of legal on a packet trick of all things, then you couldn't perform it for cash. If his lawyers found out then they could hit you with a cease and desist. I don't think they would waste their time or money on that, but I'm just saying. It could happen.

Go to Theory11's trick section, and check out some of their products, like watermark or smoke. OR go to E's site and get crash course. Royal Road to card magic, or Mark Wilsons complete course in magic. Tarbell or card college. ANY of those is better than Angels crap.

As to that, I want to know the name of the effect you purchased... I want to look into this matter further.

 

[tesla1990]

well i didnt mean t cause any strife but the name f the trick is Mental Freak by Criss Angel

it consists of six cards with numbers on the front and his image on the back and an instruction booklet to learn how to perform the trick (which was pretty simple).

 

[Haunter]

His kit is just classic tricks and classic props that are for the most part low quality and covered with his name, logos, pictures etc. If you plan to take magic seriously you should probably take your money elsewhere. You deserve better than that.

 

[tesla1990]

wht is E's site? d you have a link?

 

[saborfang17]

http://www.ellusionist.com/

 

[ATH]

Technically magic tricks cannot be copyrighted, so you can perform whatever the **** you want. There was actually a TED talk where they mentioned this. Magicians can copyright the name of an effect, but not the effect itself or the method. You can go on television right now and perform Pressure and claim that you created it. You technically don't need any permission at all. How do you think Magic's Biggest Secrets Finally Revealed gets away with revealing Sinful and other ****? The only thing you can't do is pirate the DVDs.

Go have a blast.

 

[AndrewJ]

I'm going to side with avoiding the Angel kit but add one disclaimer of my own: This information came to me second-hand (a review at another forum.

The Criss Angel kit reportedly is filled with cheaply made props. Further, Angel proudly stuck his name, branding, or general presence on every prop he could manage. Also as I understand it, he may have even changed the names of classic effects to include his own name. Not only is that very slimy - if it is indeed true - but it will hinder you as you try to learn any of those effects with the "good" props in the future.

There is no shortage of similar quality kids/beginners magic kits out there. I was at Bed Bath & Beyond looking for a present for my wife - they had both the Angel kit at $30 and one that bragged that it was "FISM Recognized" for $20. Both of my kids are asking for their own sets this year, and now there are two of the less expensive kits in my closet waiting to be gift wrapped.

I don't really like being negative, but I don't want to see someone steered in a bad direction either. Depending on what you are willing to learn, there is almost certainly a better alternative.

 

[William Draven]

Technically magic tricks cannot be copyrighted, so you can perform whatever the **** you want. There was actually a TED talk where they mentioned this. Magicians can copyright the name of an effect, but not the effect itself or the method. You can go on television right now and perform Pressure and claim that you created it. You technically don't need any permission at all. How do you think Magic's Biggest Secrets Finally Revealed gets away with revealing Sinful and other ****? The only thing you can't do is pirate the DVDs.

Go have a blast.

I don't think I agree with you advising an obvious new person in magic to go down this route. What you suggest is highly unethical and will only result in a lot of pain and misery if he pursues what you suggest.

 

[Randy]

Depending on the person who's effect you performed, if you go on TV and say you created it. You can most likely get sued, because they own the TV rights to it.

As for Criss Angels thing, yeah he slapped his name on everything, but He couldn't be arsed enough to endorse the stuff by actually appearing in the ads. They had to hire some random guy with a wig and a hat. Like everybody else said, you would probably look like a tool if you used his stuff because they have his image all over it and they are poorly made.

As for performing on TV (which unless you end up getting REALLY good and noticed.) there ARE some effects that you DON'T need any permission to perform. Something like an Ambitious card routine doesn't require any permission. (which is why Blaine often does it on the specials every so often.)