theory11 — Magic Tricks & the World's Finest Playing Cards

Magic as a Career

You can also see where you want to be with the SMILES acronym:

Survival
Material
Investing
Lifestyle
Entreprenor
Spiritual

Depending what you want in life, you'll need to put the effort necessery to achieve it. And by spiritual, it's more helping a great cause, giving a lot of money to that cause or helping personnaly with it. Also, another piece of advice, don't do business alone. If you want a big business, be with some partner who will help you get to the top. If, for example, you want to be a real estate tycoon and you want to start, it's good to have on your team an attorney, a lawyer, a real estate agent and a general entreprenor. You don't need to pay them full time, but you defenitly need to have a good relationship with them because you'l need them often. Same things with magic. Build a good team to start with, keep taking advice from the one who do make a living out of it and have a plan B if plan A don't work. You'll sleep better if you have a net.
 
Draven to win the lottery you have to take action....you have to buy a ticket.

The definition of luck means something happens with a lack of action. Even someone who buys a lottery ticket takes some kind of action.
 
So... by your logic I should be able to go out tonight, buy a lotto ticket, and just because I buy a ticket win the lotto? I'm sorry Benji but reality doesn't work like that.

With all other factors removed from my control, the chance of me winning, and the probability of me losing lay in pure luck as no other factor I can apply any degree of control over can help affect or influence the eventual outcome with the possibility of increasing my chances by buying more tickets.

JUST buying a ticket doesn't guarantee one outcome over another. So by just taking action alone isn't enough. Now what you -are- trying to drill down at is the motivational message that actions get results, and by taking action you can influence the results (in or against your favor), and doubly so over not taking action, however your choice of a lottery analogy is flawed and inaccurate.

I get what you are trying to do, I just think you could do a better job of it.

Back on the subject of power of belief, someone who doesn't believe in luck I have to ask: What do you call the medical miracles that take place in hospitals around the world where someone gets healed completely (by medical definitions) of deadly, or terminal conditions that have left the doctors with no other way to deal with it other than accept defeat? If that's not luck, by literal application of your definition, then by all means what do you call it?
 
Benji Bruce said:
Draven to win the lottery you have to take action....you have to buy a ticket.

The definition of luck means something happens with a lack of action. Even someone who buys a lottery ticket takes some kind of action.
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Here's what I think this comes down to, as Draven has pointed out - the confound to luck would be that a self fulfilling prophecy would be impossible to count out. As what Benji is saying would be true only in a pure environment. Realistically, It's impossible to do "nothing", so everyone is always generating actions that would (in theory) roll the dice of luck.

So continuing with that dice metaphor, yes, every time you just exist outside of your house you are creating a variable. You roll the dice and there is a CHANCE of you getting "lucky". What I believe Benji is trying to say, is that by taking more direct actions you increase the amount of times you roll the dice by infinity. The chance of you getting lucky and landing gigs by doing nothing does exist, but considering the variables the chances would be astronomically stacked against you. By taking a pro-active approach and controling for even very few of those variables, your chances become much more manageable.
 
All great advice and different points of view on this subject!

There are important benefits of having a company job. Obviously different jobs have different benefits, but let's lay out a couple things you get by working for corporate America.

1. Health Insurance - With insurance costs rising every year (and very quickly!) having a corporate job means your employer will cover all or most of your health insurance costs. This is especially important if you have a family. Your spouse and kids are covered. The number 1 reason why people are in debt or go bankrupt is medical expenses. Need to take a ride in an ambulance someday? The ride itself could put a big hurting on your bank account (hundreds of dollars) even if you have insurance. So making $40K as a magician is not the same as making $40K at a company that would also pay for your insurance.

2. Retirement - Let's face it, social security (that the government requires you to pay into) will not cover your expenses when you retire. Most companies will offer you a retirement plan, such as a 401K plan that they will match. I believe the norm is that they will match half of what you put in. For example, if you put in $10,000 every year, they will put in $5,000, thus leaving you with $15,000 that year in your 401K retirement plan. Over years of working and contributing, that "free" money really adds up for when you retire!

3. Stability - It might be hard to argue this one these days with the economy the way it is, but generally, knowing you are going to get X number of dollars every paycheck is really peace of mind. As you are aware, getting paid on a regular basis is not the norm for magicians. You might have a slow month or a couple slow months where you're not going to be able to bring in the income you need to sustain your bills. Also, if you get laid off from a company, you are entitled to unemployment money. As more pressure is put on companies to cut costs in these hard economic times, more companies will cut their budget for the entertainment, promotion, and marketing departments. This means that companies will be willing to pay less for a magician, and or not even hire one.

With all that being said, my advice is to get a college degree. After you have done that, get a job and become a semi-professional magician. This is what I did, and I make a good living at my job where I can afford my bills, and save some for my magic career. This will allow you to save enough money, for when the day comes and you do decide to be a magician full-time. The benefits of being a semi-professional is that you are flexible enough to choose which gigs to take as it is not your primary source of income. It's also nice to do a gig here and there or once a month and make some extra money! I'm in a good position where i get 3 weeks of vacation. I sometimes use my vacation time to travel and do gigs to make extra money, while having days left for actual vacation.

With all that being said, you might be lucky enough to get a company job where you have a flexible schedule, or not even have to work a full 40 hours a week! Then you will really have the time and money to do your magic.

-Calvin
 
Great post Calvin. You and I think along the same lines and that is exactly the way I look at it. I'm not saying that is the "Right" way to go at it but its what works best for us and takes care of our family needs as well. Health Insurance paid by my employer came in pretty darn handy when my wife had cancer a year and a half ago. I would not have been able to afford the bills that went way over $500,000 for chemo, surgery, and such.
 
William Draven said:
So... by your logic I should be able to go out tonight, buy a lotto ticket, and just because I buy a ticket win the lotto? I'm sorry Benji but reality doesn't work like that.

With all other factors removed from my control, the chance of me winning, and the probability of me losing lay in pure luck as no other factor I can apply any degree of control over can help affect or influence the eventual outcome with the possibility of increasing my chances by buying more tickets.

JUST buying a ticket doesn't guarantee one outcome over another. So by just taking action alone isn't enough. Now what you -are- trying to drill down at is the motivational message that actions get results, and by taking action you can influence the results (in or against your favor), and doubly so over not taking action, however your choice of a lottery analogy is flawed and inaccurate.

I get what you are trying to do, I just think you could do a better job of it.

Back on the subject of power of belief, someone who doesn't believe in luck I have to ask: What do you call the medical miracles that take place in hospitals around the world where someone gets healed completely (by medical definitions) of deadly, or terminal conditions that have left the doctors with no other way to deal with it other than accept defeat? If that's not luck, by literal application of your definition, then by all means what do you call it?
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William, you're a man after my own heart here. . .

As I mentioned earlier, you can follow "the book" detail by detail, mimic any number of others that find success in any given field and still not find the same level of progress and accomplishment. The successful people in the world are blinded to the fact that we are all different and too, if everyone could "win" there would be no segregation of haves & have nots on this planet. . . something about 99% keeps ringing in the back of my mind. . .

Yes, the majority of us could generate an ok living doing magic provided we are willing to sacrifice the trappings of normalcy in life; it is a very time consuming job that requires us to wear numerous hats; something that few of us are capable of doing. More so, fewer of us are willing to pay the price. Then we have that lottery ticket factor you've brought out and the fact that no one can win unless they play. . . I've watched many an already poor person end up in worse life settings and circumstances as the result of playing with the hope of winning. . . be it the lotto or some casino trap. In short, the odds are always against you and only a select and "Lucky" few ever seem to reap the rewards; typically due to political ladder climbing and simply being in the right place at the right time.

When it comes to the Miraculous as you and others already know, I believe in such phenomena in that I've seen it happen as well as experienced such things. Snicker all you wish (many do) but this world is filled with amazing things science cannot explain; phenomena that defies their collection of theories and "laws" that quite purposely gets swept under any nearby carpet . . . and we're not talking about PSI, the Power of Faith, etc. just general phenomena. But when it comes to the Paranormal, even here we find that science (no magicians) can explain certain things away; they have learned to obfuscate things and graciously (most of the time) skirt around and change the issue, but their only explanations seem to be "Coincidence", "Self-Fulfilling Prophecy" or "Cold Reading" the latter putting Randi himself in the hot-seat recently in that he couldn't answer questions about the differing facets of Astrology and the fact that NONE of the testing accepted by skeptics, were inclusive of the variables common to traditional Astrology. . . his solution was to have the "trouble makers" barred from the second half of the lecture.

Sorry but the evangelic trend of today's skeptics, especially from within the magic community, has done more to hurt their cause than help. It has created a very bold dividing line that more or less forces the believers of the community to "hide" and not speak up about their beliefs out of fear of being ridiculed and seen as a "fool". I've been one of the few to do the opposite for most of the past twenty years and slowly more and more are saying they've had enough as well. So stand tall William, your points about the miraculous will not fall on deaf ears and could quite well prove inspiration to the timid, giving them permission to stand up as well.

As I've already said, Yes one can make a living in magic, the question is however, what are you willing to sacrifice in order to do so. I'm one of the fools that lost everything because of my dedication to this particular mistress. I'm not alone, in a recent conversation with an old friend of mine (he was an old timer when I was in my 20s) we looked at how many of the greats, major players and icons of magic, died broke. . . even Vernon, his funeral was paid for by Copperfield after his livelihood had been sustained by the Castle & the Larsen family for over 30 years. This is that part of our industry you rarely hear about, especially when you have so many gung-ho sorts spitting out the latest version of Dale Carnegie or, as it would be now days, Tony Robbins.

Allow your magic to be a profitable hobby and then, once you've put that 25+ years in on the day job, then you can go out and do your thing, have some fun and allow your passion to support you in your silver & golden years. The most successful people I've known in this craft did it exactly this way.
 
I can't believe you guys are encouraging someone to NOT go after their dreams.

[video=youtube;y4DcjQx2KLo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4DcjQx2KLo[/video]
 
Benji Bruce said:
I can't believe you guys are encouraging someone to NOT go after their dreams.

[video=youtube;y4DcjQx2KLo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4DcjQx2KLo[/video]
Click to expand...

This is probably my favorite video of the ones you sent out. Completely inspiring.
 
I can't believe you have the audacity to try and turn my words against me without confronting the points I make, reinforce your stronger points, and attempt to rebuttle the weaker ones OR admit you may (gasp!) be wrong about something.

Quit trying to smoke screen the subject at hand. That subject being the analogy you used for luck as it pertains to the lotto is flawed because winning the lotto is nothing but an example of luck personified. So instead of coming up with a better example, or trying to disprove my examples why it is luck, you instead troll me by saying I don't care about peoples dreams, and try a bait and switch with the conversation? I think not sir.

Benji I've seen how you operate on the Magic Cafe, and I've seen what you're trying to do here, and since everyone else seems to be unaware I'm going to go ahead and point out the elephant. I know what your tactics are on the forum. You'll troll something out there, you'll bait a response, and then you don't address what is said. You'll pull out one or two things, make a quick sentence about it, and then dart back into the shadows while everyone else actually contributes something worth while. I've done my research sir, I've looked through the last six months of your posts here and at the Cafe to get a better understanding of who you are, and what you are about.

What you are, and it's clear, is not a magician. You so desperately want to be a motivational life coach who happens to have done a little magic on the side. No one's heard of you before this year, and you were a total un-kown 8 months ago. You walk onto this forum in June, you've posted up 110 posts, created 18 threads, and with the exception of the three or four highlighting your TV appearances, or radio spots, they are all marketing ploys to get people to leave this forum, go to your website, sign up for your blog, and buy your 30$ marketing book. -a tactic which I might add, and moderators please pay attention, is AGAINST forum policy. I've seen people get banned for less of an offense. You could care less about the people here on this forum, the only thing this forum means to you is a way to skim off a bunch of hopefuls who have their heads full of dreams and here you come to save the day! You'll show them the way if they subscribe to your blog, and buy your book. If that's too much for you to follow then I'll simplify it. You are using theory11's forums to promote your product, website, blog, and generate sales for yourself.

I would NEVER tell some one they shouldn't follow their dream. I'm a living proof that dreams come true! I grew up in the middle of a corn field Ohio. Middle class family, lost my father to cancer when I was a boy and had an abusive step father for the last 8 years I was at home. I left the house at 18, dropped out of college at 19, and hit the road to California to make my way as a magician. I've worked everything from the streets to the Casino's and even have managed to score a TV appearance doing magic. Not an interview for a news channel, but multiple performance slots on an internationally airing syndicated TV program. I've met the magicians I worshiped as a kid, and I've had the pleasure of working with a couple of them. Dreams DO COME TRUE! However Benji, I'm not going to paint this fairy tale story as anything other than what it is. I've cried myself to sleep, I've bleed for my work, I've struggled, I've lost relationships, and friendships over my career. Nothing has happened for me over night, and I've fought tooth and nail to get what little I have. I know better than anyone that you can achieve what ever you want, so how DARE you sir come on here and try to insinuate something different. I want every single person who has ever picked up a deck of cards to be able to go out there and make it. If they want to work TV, cruise lines, casinos, what ever I want them to do it. My life is an open book, my brain a free resource to be picked, and what limited experiences I've had available to anyone to learn through. We're all in this together, and I am most certainly a team player in that regard. However as I've said, I deal in reality, and I won't sugar coat something for anyone. I'll tell it like it is, or until rebuked, or rebutted with something that forces me to change the way I look at something. (which has happened a few times since I've been here.)

I'd watch my step on this forum going into the future here Benji if I were you. I don't play games, and now that I know what you are I won't pull any punches going forward either.
 
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Will Smith is a different story, he went from being an OK rapper in his youth to meeting Quincy Jones and doing the Fresh Prince and then right when he got cast for ID4 his acting career pretty much went into over drive. He had all the right people around him to make his career even better. Not everybody has that opportunity. But I Digress, the main thing here is that you CAN achieve your dreams but it takes a lot blood, sweat and tears.

Statistically speaking most people generally don't figure out what they want to do in life till they hit their 30's.
 
Randy said:
Will Smith is a different story, he went from being an OK rapper in his youth to meeting Quincy Jones and doing the Fresh Prince and then right when he got cast for ID4 his acting career pretty much went into over drive. He had all the right people around him to make his career even better. Not everybody has that opportunity. But I Digress, the main thing here is that you CAN achieve your dreams but it takes a lot blood, sweat and tears.

Statistically speaking most people generally don't figure out what they want to do in life till they hit their 30's.
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Some people just have the right things fall in place for them. Luke Jermay was very fortunate in the beginning of his career to have the right people and resources around him, but he still worked to get in that position for those people to recognize him. If you work hard enough, you'll have a better chance of putting yourself in a position to have the right people around you.
 
I've known Luke since he was about 15 or 16 years old, I was there and know how things unfolded for him (and how reluctant he actually was at first; actually had a lot of self-doubt going in). But there is a converse side to things with Luke as well in that he woke up after the Honeymoon part of fortune & fame, realizing that he DIDN'T WANT "that life" -- he wanted quality and some sense of normalcy back in his life and so he walked out on a contract and moved back home. Sometimes that "success" proves to be more demoralizing and you recognize that it's a pair of shoes that really don't fit you well.

A Note to Benji Though. . . there is a big difference between encouraging people to chase their dreams and blowing smoke up their kilts. I've watched and listened to far too many "Millionaire Magician" types over the years, noticing how they prey on the dreamer & wannabe, selling their manuals for several hundred bucks, hosting work shops and other products to help you get there and more. . . it's a bigger hustle than the Pea & Shell game but then "Hope" is the biggest, most successful product ever made available to the masses (as any Casino owner, Priest or Politician if you doubt me). I've not only tried many of those programs but helped sell them as well as New Age remedies for what ails folks and in the 30ish or so years I've been around that stuff I've found that it's 99% pure horse pucky. The "secret" to success is hard work, focus and sacrifice and even that doesn't come with a guarantee; you can only take getting knocked down by life so many times. BUT, you will always find a special kind of success behind those beatings and life; that will never change though the destination of our life path may take us places never before considered.

If you are in fact hustling "your system" I'd suggest you pause and consider your responsibility to the people you are making the pitch too and more so, taking money from. There is no difference between peddling dreams in this mode than you will find in the promises of a cult leader.
 
Some of the things Benji says is good advice but you can now start to see why in his videos he tends to be pretty vague about things like approaching a manager or anything like that, So he can get you to buy his 30 dollar E-Book. And the main problem is right now that he has a lack of experience and a ton of people on the Cafe have pointed out how he doesn't seem entertaining and acts more like a Car Salesmen than an entertainer, and with the fact that he's 23 and trying to sell himself like he's been doing this for decades.
 
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I have been hugely disappointed when I saw Benji sell his ebook on his newsletter.
His advice were quite interesting, but really vague. I was feeling he was doing something like this but, well, I had hoped he would just continue to give free tips for the community.

The thing is, I would maybe have considered buying your book if your performing style was more artistic. You perform like a businessman, as you said. But I prefer a hundred times someone who perform like a magician. That's just my 0.02$, but I feel that if you've got something to say to someone, you better say it (or type it).

The really annoying fact, Benji, is that you never reply to anything negative, you just run away. There's been a lot of discussion on the café, and people did criticize you, but you never took the time to answer them, or give your opinion. And that does not feel very pro. It feels like you're saying to yourself "Whatever, I'll just answer to friendly people and ignore anyone else. Let's keep control and not feed the troll". But these aren't troll. People are being constructive and you're just saying "Maybe you don't want me to post on Theory11 anymore".

Please, just act like a pro and give your constructive opinion, tell us why you think otherwise. Tell us what you think about your approach of magic when people tell you you're a Magic Car Salesman. Please tell us.

Don't ignore us, Benji, you know that's pretty insulting.
 
Guys! Why have we suddenly turned this informative thread into a slating one to a professional? I do not in anyway condone Benji, but I respect where he has got to with his career. Draven, you have helped me in the past and recently with marketing tips through your posts, and you are always there to ask questions to. You have your way of giving to the community and Benji has his. Can we get this back on track and talk about magic as a career, rather than having a go at someone who is doing it? This isn't what Theory11 is about, helping people is.

Simon_Magic
 
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