Two Stunning Effects

Keep in mind that these are responses from magicians. Responces from both magicians and spectators are going to be different but never the less both equaly valuable. People buy effects to fool spectators not other magicians (generaly), so they have to be presentable to them. If the way you want to present them is like this than all means go for it, If it works run with it, I personaly think these effects are great. Maybe if they are being presented to the magic community than make a more presentable video, edit them up a bit. Everyone sees people performing some effect to the camera so there has to be some way to make them original. Your always going to recive negative critasim so you just have to look at the positive side of things. All critasism is useful regardless of the negativity (or positivity). So keep working with it.
 
Sep 7, 2008
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"Let's Face It"

--I have seen all the bill changes, including Garcia's "Greed". I wanted to do something different, something that was so obvious but had not been attempted. No one does face changes, so that's what I did. The storyline I have developed helps this effect flow smoothly. As for the ending of my effect, I simply love it, for I can gracefully return to the full Washington front and back leaving my spectators in a state of wonder and awe.

-This effect is impromptu and requires no setting up.

"Naked"
-I will try to upload more videos of this soon.

The offer I received

-I looked around online for places to submit my effects for review and submitted them to the websites that I could find that looked legitimate. I have submitted to theory11, ellusionist, papercrane, and blacksmagicgroup.

-Blacksmagicgroup is the website that has contacted me with interest in both of my effects. What do you guys think of this site? I myself am a bit iffy on it.

Thanks,
Peter

Can the bill be examined at the end? How do you get around people wanting to see the bill? Impromptu - you say. Is it impromptu "in appearance" meaning you need a special bill, or truly impromptu with a borrowed bill?

Have you told Blacks Magic Group that you've only been working on these effects for two weeks. If you haven't, you should. If they still agree to make this project, that says a lot about their company.
 
Nov 20, 2007
4,410
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Sydney, Australia
I'll be totally honest with you, I don't think either of these effects are good enough or ready to be released. Work on them for maybe another 3-5 years, do your research on the history of both of these effects (you say the methods are original, I'm not convinced), and then think about offering them up. As part of maybe 10 other effects in a compilation, not by themselves. They'd be interesting elements in a compilation, but don't warrant individual sale imho. They feel like the little quirky, interesting moves you find between serious routines in a good magic book. Right now they're good ideas and decent moves, but they're nothing improved over existing methods.

Naked looks shocking. You can't seem to be able to perform it yourself. The washes look silly, and your production is slow and fumbling. It doesn't look like you're magically producing something out of thin air, it looks literally like you're reaching for a bill to pull out that you've hidden very carefully.

Let's Face It has more promise. But again, it doesn't add anything to existing magic literature except an extraordinary amount of folding.

The bigger issue is, I don't think you're ready to release anything as a magician. I certainly wouldn't buy anything from you. For one, you write that "Magic is for entertainment and is used to trigger seemingly unsolvable mind puzzles."

I'm sorry, but that's completely wrong. Magic is very different from a puzzle. Puzzles are not magic. Any child instinctively knows the difference, but many magicians do not. Why? Puzzles give no satisfaction except through being solved. An unsolved puzzle is simply frustrating. But magic cannot be satisfying unless it remains unsolved. The two are incompatible, and your statement reflects a lack of experience with your magic. This is not necessarily a bad thing per se - everyone starts out like this - but it's something that will have to change.

However, if you still want more advice, send a PM to Brad Henderson with your two videos. I would go so far as to say that he is the single most experienced, knowledgeable and respected magician on these forums, and has reviewed a great number of products as well as marketing his own. Even if you completely disagree with my opinion on your effects, please take this step. Brad can offer you more experience than everyone in this thread combined.
 
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Nov 26, 2009
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New "naked" video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCeXq_BJJd0

JPMagic
-I have worked it out so that the bill can be examined after the effect and I will be uploading a video soon. By impromptu, I do mean by appearance.

praetoritevong
-I have looked to check their originality and they are truly original.

-Can't perform "Naked" by myself? No idea where you are going there.

-And once again, I quote myself, "Magic is for entertainment and is used to trigger seemingly unsolvable mind puzzles". Magic is indeed a puzzle and if they weren't we wouldn't have magic at all. By this, I mean that magic is entertaining because it puzzles the mind of the spectator to such an amusing state. If all spectators were unable to be puzzled then there would be no magic. It is this puzzling that allows for magic to exist. Yes, a literal out-of-the-box puzzle may be frustrating to some but that is not what I am talking about at all. Magic doesn't produce frustration, for the most part, it produces a feeling of wonder and awe of the impossible nature of what has happened.

-Thanks for your comment/feedback

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCeXq_BJJd0
 
Nov 20, 2007
4,410
6
Sydney, Australia
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCeXq_BJJd0praetoritevong
-I have looked to check their originality and they are truly original.

-Can't perform "Naked" by myself? No idea where you are going there.

-And once again, I quote myself, "Magic is for entertainment and is used to trigger seemingly unsolvable mind puzzles". Magic is indeed a puzzle and if they weren't we wouldn't have magic at all. By this, I mean that magic is entertaining because it puzzles the mind of the spectator to such an amusing state. If all spectators were unable to be puzzled then there would be no magic. It is this puzzling that allows for magic to exist. Yes, a literal out-of-the-box puzzle may be frustrating to some but that is not what I am talking about at all. Magic doesn't produce frustration, for the most part, it produces a feeling of wonder and awe of the impossible nature of what has happened.

-Thanks for your comment/feedback

On originality - Alright, I'll take your word for it.

On Naked - I meant, you don't seem to be able to perform your own effect. Still a lot of hesitation, no fluidity. A production should look exactly like that - a magical production. Naked looks like you've just cleverly hidden something that you're rather obviously reaching for.

On magic and puzzles - Magic is certainly not a puzzle. What a spectator feels, if performed correctly, is wonder, or amazement. These are very different thing from puzzles. As I said before: a puzzle has a solution. A puzzle's only purpose is to be solved. A puzzle must be solved, or else it has no other rewarding value. Let's take some common puzzles...

A jigsaw puzzle. A jigsaw puzzle is rewarding because you get to see what you have put together in the end. A jigsaw puzzle is not at all interesting if you know that you can only get 60 of the 40 pieces together.

A rubik's cube. A rubik's cube is interesting to try and solve. It has a solution. There is no point to it except to be solved, and if someone attempts a cube and fails, then, apart from the extremely stubborn and/or resilient, will give up, and the cube will not be of any further purpose.

A sudoku. A sudoku is to be solved. Again, it has a solution. People persevere at these puzzles to try and get the solution. If we knew that there was no solution, then there would be no point to the puzzle.

Contrast with magic. Magic is unique in that it creates wonder (NB: Wonder is very different from puzzlement!). Magic challenges the participant to consider the impossible. Therefore the illusion of impossibility must be maintained. Magic strives exactly because there appears to be no solution. Once the possibility of a solution is formed (remember that a puzzle is only interesting in the context of its solution), then there is no magic because it is no longer impossible.

Magic should neither puzzle nor amuse. I am amused when I see a clever comedian or ventriloquist. I am puzzled when the crossword stumps me. Magic is a very different form of entertainment precisely because it transcends both.

Magic exists entirely outside of puzzles, and if puzzles did not exist, magic would be better for it. In the end, magic hasn't a thing to do with puzzles. A spectator is not puzzled when they see magic, unless it is done poorly. This is because puzzles and puzzlement is a strictly intellectual response. The state of being puzzled, by definition, is an intellectual response - because you do not understand something.

However, magic can never elicit an intellectual response, because we know intellectually that magic as we perform it does not exist. No, the reactions we garner are strictly emotional responses, because it is on that plane that magic is so powerful. This is where magic comes in. This is when good magic will never be forgotten, and bad magic will fade away by the end of the night. Puzzles are strictly intellectual, and hence another reason why good magic is never a puzzle.
 
Well I agree with praetoritevong on the naked part still. It doesn't look fluid man, if you have to perform it like that then it doesn't look magical at all.

Look at Home Liwag's coin productions, he seems to just grab them out of mid-air. That is magic, something appearing out of thin air, not doing some stripper move rubbing your hand down your chest like your about to do some crotch grab.
 
Nov 26, 2009
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Will you obviously cannot see my point on how magic is a puzzle. did you know, that magic, like puzzles, can be solved for there is solution. As you have listed different types of puzzles, magic is a type of puzzle.

Stripper move- that is funny and I see what you mean by that. My hand is not running down my chest. As I looked at my video again I noticed it does look like that though. I will upload another with better lighting and a lighter colored t-shirt.

As always, thanks for the feedback.
 
If possible some different angles of the effect would be nice, and your having to shoot so many videos just to get the basic effect across isn't a good sign.

Also, magic is not a puzzle. Magic does have a solution obviously but there is one huge key difference. A jigsaw puzzle, rubiks cube, all the other things prae mentioned are indeed puzzles that have a point to be solved, to be bought and to be figured out.

Magic is supposed to entertain and astonish, to have no possible solution when in reality it's the simplest of ones. If you say magic is a puzzle, then you have no concept of magic and your creations will reflect it.
 
Nov 20, 2007
4,410
6
Sydney, Australia
Will you obviously cannot see my point on how magic is a puzzle. did you know, that magic, like puzzles, can be solved for there is solution. As you have listed different types of puzzles, magic is a type of puzzle.

But this is exactly my point! Magic should NEVER have a solution! The strength of magic depends on the fact that it appears impossible. It is meaningful because the participant questions what they know to be real - an emotional response. To repeat, good magic should NEVER have a solution, and good magic should NEVER be solved.

As soon as the concept of a solution is introduced, then magic loses its mystery, because the feat is no longer impossible! Introducing magic as a puzzle dramatically weakens its effect, and will never be as strong as it could be. Magic is, by definition, challenging the impossible, and can only be entertaining if there is NO solution - otherwise, we're just watching someone perform tricks, and tricks are NOT magic either. If there is no element of impossibility - if there is a solution presented - then magic simply becomes weak.

This is exactly what I meant when I spoke of your relative immaturity in magic (this is not intended as an insult, merely an observation).
 
Sep 7, 2008
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You didn't answer this.
Did you tell Black's Magic Group you have only been working on these effects for two weeks?
 
Nov 26, 2009
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praetoritevong
-Will it appears that we seem to agree on the topic of magic and puzzles according to what I said earlier: "Magic is for entertainment and is used to trigger seemingly unsolvable mind puzzles". By this, I mean that magic causes the spectator to feel as though there is no possible way that was real or just happened. But in reality from the magician's point of view, the effect is not impossible for they have the solution while it is completely impossible to be solved by the spectator, depending on how great the effect really is. Also, in order to create magic or an effect, the magician solves a puzzle. For instance, most times a magician starts out with an idea of the effect they want to create. It is a simple idea, such as an appear or disappear or a change of some sort or whatever there A-to-B is. Then they must put the pieces together in order to make that idea possible and thus solve the puzzle for themselves.
-I don't disagree with what you are saying, I feel we have the same basic idea and that there was just some miscommunication.

JPMagic
-Yes, I did let Black's Magic Group know that I have just recently created these effects. I told them I would get back to them after I got some footage of myself performing the effects for spectators.
 
Nov 20, 2007
4,410
6
Sydney, Australia
praetoritevong
-Will it appears that we seem to agree on the topic of magic and puzzles according to what I said earlier: "Magic is for entertainment and is used to trigger seemingly unsolvable mind puzzles". By this, I mean that magic causes the spectator to feel as though there is no possible way that was real or just happened. But in reality from the magician's point of view, the effect is not impossible for they have the solution while it is completely impossible to be solved by the spectator, depending on how great the effect really is. Also, in order to create magic or an effect, the magician solves a puzzle. For instance, most times a magician starts out with an idea of the effect they want to create. It is a simple idea, such as an appear or disappear or a change of some sort or whatever there A-to-B is. Then they must put the pieces together in order to make that idea possible and thus solve the puzzle for themselves.
-I don't disagree with what you are saying, I feel we have the same basic idea and that there was just some miscommunication.

I think I see what you mean. In simple terms, I think that although we're more or less saying similar things, you're just using the word puzzle. I took issue with the use of that word, as I still don't think it's an accurate word to describe things, but I do understand what you're getting at, and it appears our perspectives may be more similar than at first appearance.

damn dude naked is the sickness
i watched it like 10 times and i could not find the bill
teach me please! ill give u a deck or something

lol.
 
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