A Suggestion for All Those Wanting to Learn Suggestion.

Mar 6, 2008
1,483
3
A Land Down Under
Don't.

Well I am not exactly saying that but you have to be 100% certain that you want to learn this very powerful tool. The primary mistake a lot of younger people make is that, if they learn suggestion they will be able to achieve amazing feats that Derren Brown does. Rational thought and a basic understanding of mentalism will tell you otherwise, however, there are still many people who cannot accept this. Whislt on the subject of Mr. Brown many if not the majority of his performance pieces use the 'ability' of reading people more so than influencing them. So what is the fascination suggestion and influencing people.

I suppose it all comes down to control and power. I mean who would not want to be able to control people in the way that Derren appears to. But there lies the dilemma, suggestion and influence do not mean the same thing as control. If you look at Luke Jermay's book 7 Deceptions you can see some amazing pieces in there using suggestion. Stopping a spectators pulse, causing the lines on the palm of a spectator's hand to move and causing someone to forget a playing card. Whilst all of these have the primary method as suggestion they also use other (physical) methods to at least give the effect a starting point. I am not saying that you cannot achieve all these effect completely on psychological methods, but if you have something that is going to work and make your job a lot easier why not use it. That is in my mind the real power of suggestion using it to heighten an effect not create one.

So if suggestion is a tool, lets look at an other one. One that in my opinion is almost as powerful, but far and away more versatile. Ambiguity is that very tool, and it can be used to heighten effects just as much as it can be used to create them. Using this technique Dee Christopher has almost created a whole effect, with a little physical stepping stone to help with the beginning, and used it in most of his subsequent releases as hit even when he is wrong. The example can be found in Ian Rowland's Full Facts of Cold Reading, and it uses a grammatical flaw to grantee a hit. This line is as follows;

'It's not a red card is it?'

Obviously the spectator can go one of two ways with this if it was a red card they will say yes and you can proceed with an I thought so. However, if they answer no you can follow that up with an I didn't think so. So either way you are almost guaranteed at least a hit in the spectators mind when they think about it again.

Lets take the above idea a step further and give it a real context, a simple effect say you either forced a card or peeked one and you are going to 'read' the spectators tells and body language to determine the selection. In this example we are holding a break but have not done the peek yet, this will become clear in a second.

Performer: I want you to shuffle the cards as much as you want. Keep shuffling them until you are happy.

P: I am going to look away and riffle the cards like so, and when ever you want to just say stop.

Volunteer: Stop.

P: Got the card good.

P: I am going to say out loud 'black and red' and I want you to keep a poker face. Try not to give anything away, but in saying that you probably will. Ok.

Volunteer: Ok

P: Black and Red, Red and Black.
Black and Red, Red and Black.
Black and Red, Red and Black.

P: Ok, its not a red card is it.

V: No, no it's not.

P: Didn't think so.
P to Spectator: Did you see what she did? She slightly nodded when I said black.

V: Did I?

P: Yes, would you like to try? Look into her eyes take a deep breath and just try it. I also want you to hold the cards as I don't want to touch them. *Hands spectator the cards and peeks the select card.* So we know she has a black card so it is either clubs or spades.

S: Clubs and Spades, Spades and Clubs.

P: Got one?

S: Is it clubs

P: Is it? *looking a little confused*.

V: Yes it is.

P: Great, now I am going to count through the values of the cards Ace to King.
Ace, two, three, ... , jack, queen, king. King, queen, jack, ... , three, two, ace.

P: You saw it right.
*Performer now massages spectator to name the peeked card*.

V: How does that work? Was I really doing that?

There are a few things I want to talk about on an aside the first of which is the timing of the peek. Personally I like to distance the action of riffling the cards as much as possible, and the best way I found to do this is to do the glimpse quite a bit later in the effect. By asking the spectator to look into the eyes of the volunteer and take a deep breath you are focusing their attention away from you so a prefect time to do the glimpse. Also by asking them to hold the cards you have a perfectly good reason to look at your hands as you are halfway through the motion of handing them the cards when you say this. By that stage you have the glimpse and destroyed the evidence of the break you were holding. The second point I want to mention is that although the effect is merely peeking a card and revealing it by giving the second person the moment to shine it does two primary things the first is that it gives what you are doing some real validity. Secondly it doesn't make you seem as egotistical as many magician and this is always a good thing.

There are a few other parts of the script that use ambiguity in an other light. By saying things like I want to look away the whole time and I don't want to hold the cards. Even though they are half true the audience will remember them however they will not remember when they occurred in the performance. This leads me to the most powerful use of ambiguity, suggestion. If you can suggest something did not happen when it really did in this case you holding the cards. Or the other way around suggesting something happened when it really did not in this example looking away the entire time. The audience will remember this and it creates a more powerful effect in their eyes. More often then not they will remember it as me turning away as they shuffle the cards and riffling them so they can think of one (sometimes they won't even remember that). And the other spectator holding the cards the entire time and them reading each others body language.


Other Points
1. I do perform some effects that have nothing but psychological methods, Luke Jermay's Out of (t)His World is a favourite.

2. If you want to learn a lot more about causing spectators to mis-remember effects as well as a wealth of other information look into Paul Brook's The Alchemical Tools as it is worth far more than the high price tag that has been placed on it.
 
Nov 20, 2007
4,410
6
Sydney, Australia
Agreed with what you're saying. The bit I'd like to highlight again is that suggestion is primarily a tool to strengthen an effect. And while one may well used a routine with suggestion only, most of the time, suggestion is best used as an addendum. It has to be said that Derren Brown's routines are often exactly that: routines. However much he may talk about NLP and reading body language, anyone who has seen his The Devil's Picturebook will notice just how much he actually reads body language in his effects where he supposedly does so.

Nice post man.

As far as a suggestion goes: Learn what suggestion is, before you try and learn how to do it.
 
Mar 6, 2008
1,483
3
A Land Down Under
Thanks for the kind words.

We have not spoke in a while we should do it again some time :p

Also thanks for picking up on one of the two main points I was trying to get out there with the suggestion is best suited to heighten the effect and not create it. The other being that people need to spend a little more time with the other side of the coin of ambiguity. Banachek uses them so beautifully together as he suggests something will happen but leaves it at that. Then when they react he uses their feeling to increase the suggestion.
 
Nov 20, 2007
4,410
6
Sydney, Australia
Haha sorry for not being online - I've been doing a theatre production amongst other work, and in the process am two weeks behind on Uni work lol. I'll be on soon-ish :) You may have noticed (or not) I only started posting on T11 again a few days ago.

To offer another example of ambiguity, if you need someone to pick either red sevens or black sevens and want to end up with black, a statement like "I'm going to remove two sevens of the same colour - what colour do you imagine I am removing, red or black?"

The answer of black results in an affirmative response ("Brilliant, so we have the two black sevens now, spades and clubs, yeah?") and continuing on with the effect.

The answer of red results in an affirmative responsem saying, "Great. I'm going to go ahead and remove these red sevens then, which of course leaves us with...?"

In both cases the ambiguity of the word "remove" makes perfect sense - either removing the cards to use, or removing the cards as in discarding. It doesn't sound as clean as the classic example D ICE R gave, but it works very well nonetheless, and it's something I use. (I hope that makes sense with the rest of D ICE R's post, lol)
 
Mar 6, 2008
1,483
3
A Land Down Under
I did not notice your being away from t11 (your 2600+ posts don't help you there)

I love equivocal techniques especially with playing cards. In Joshua Quinn's Paralies he talks about this topic at length and anyone who wants to learn more show look there. If you want something a little cheaper Max Maven has some amazing work on the subject aswell.
 
D ICE R, I mean no disrespect, but I have to be honest with you-- I've no idea what you were talking about in your original post. You started off talking about suggestion but then went off on a tangent about the ambiguous language of cold-reading, and then outlined an effect which (in my opinion) did not require any of the above nor improve from any of its usage. What exactly were you trying to get at?

Suggestion is a field of its own. It's the most fundamental aspect of hypnosis to induce certain feelings, sensations, or even actions and behaviors in people. It doesn't have to be linguistic-- in fact, it's probably more effective if it's not. Derren Brown does use suggestion to supplement his televised material, but you're right-- it's very small piece of the pie, so to speak. With that said, there are still many professional performers who use suggestion as their primary tool in entertainment: Docc Hilford and Kenton Knepper, to name a few.

Ambiguous language is best suited for cold-readings as you mentioned. But again-- it plays a nearly insignificant role in the overall reading as a whole. And if overused, it's easily transparent to even most lay audiences.

The effect you outlined in your original post really threw me off. It was a simple effect which used neither suggestion nor ambiguous language effectively. Why would you even need ambiguous language if you already glimpsed the card. In my humble opinion, it only acts as filler patter and is ultimately a waste of breath. And what you describe as suggestion due to ambiguity isn't suggestion at all. It's simply miscalling events. Granted, both are linguistic tools used to supplement and improve a performance, but they are worlds apart in definition and execution.

I guess I'm asking-- what about suggestion were you trying to share?

RS.
 
Nov 20, 2007
4,410
6
Sydney, Australia
He was relating suggestion to equivoque with the perspective that they are, both of them, best used as tools to enhance an effect, contrary to common misconceptions about the former.
 
Mar 6, 2008
1,483
3
A Land Down Under
Romeo

The tangent of ambiguity was to highlight that as a tool it is a more effective tool than suggestion as to the method of the effect. In the example the reason for using the ambiguous language is that you have not peeked the card in the early stages of the effect. Distancing the cards from the action of riffling them is one of the most important and underused methods when using a standard riffle peek. I would love to use a better example of what I was talking about however the original example hinted at the method of two marketed effects, the more famous one being Kurosuke.
 
Jan 1, 2009
2,241
3
Back in Time
Suggestion and Equivoque are two different things. You can learn Equivoque in Dai Vernon's Inner Secrets of magic book.

The other thing about suggestion that most people seem to forget about is that it takes a lot of confidence to pull off properly. You can't be some kid who stumble around his words when trying to do it. You HAVE to know what you are going to say and you HAVE to have the right amount of confidence in yourself.
 
Sep 24, 2007
417
1
If you think about it, I'm sure you all already use suggestion in your work. Think about when you implant a false memory into the spectator's mind by "incorrectly summarizing" a procedure. Surely that in itself is a form of suggestion.
 
Very nice....

Suggestion is in my mind a gift, not everyone can do it. I for instance can´t it might be the fact that i don´t speak English as a Native language but suggestion is not something i can do, because i cant be that persuasive nor confident.
But i "use" it alot in my performances and ive become to use it more and more in the past few times.

The point is that if you don´t know how to use it in real life you are not forbidden to use it in your performances as an enhancer.

This also counts for, NLP, Hypnotism, Cold Reading etc.

Mikk
 
Mar 6, 2008
1,483
3
A Land Down Under
If you think about it, I'm sure you all already use suggestion in your work. Think about when you implant a false memory into the spectator's mind by "incorrectly summarizing" a procedure. Surely that in itself is a form of suggestion.

I use a lot of suggestion in my work, when I am performing. The primary point I was trying make was that you should really learn what suggestion is and what it is capable to do. The secondary point was that a more powerful technique is ambiguity and to actually use it as Banachek does so well as a precursor to suggestion. The final part was and is probably the most underused form of suggestion instead of just enhancing the effect as its happening, why not also enhance their memory of the effect as well.
 
Searching...
{[{ searchResultsCount }]} Results