Art of Astonishment
- Thread starter Lex13
- Start date
I can appreciate your enthusiasm, but at the risk of bringing you down these effects aren't going to make you a better magician. Paul's a talented creator and a truly original thinker, but learning his stuff isn't going to make you any better an illusionist than buying Tony Hawk's brand of clothes will make you a better skater.
Lies! Just after 3 hours of putting on official Tony Hawk briefs, matching sports cup and shoes I was totally rocking the local skate park! Kids half my age were in awe of my mad skillz while I was kicking it old school. People were like "Omg my bff totaly sucks compaired to your bbq trix! Dude How did you get that good?"
But all I said was that I got game yo, and they were chill with that. However me and Tony know the REAL secret to my success! Thanks Tony Hawk, without your amazingly cliché merchandice to support and perpetuate the skater boy image I'd still be a sucky never was wanna-be. Your products changed my life!
•endorsement not approved by Tony Hawk. Tony Hawk products may or maynot inhance personal performance either on or off the course. Please purchase responsibly. Side effects may include swelled ego, a strong desire to "fit in", stereo-typing by adults, and the potential to listen to punk or alternative music may increase. Void where allowed.
But all I said was that I got game yo, and they were chill with that. However me and Tony know the REAL secret to my success! Thanks Tony Hawk, without your amazingly cliché merchandice to support and perpetuate the skater boy image I'd still be a sucky never was wanna-be. Your products changed my life!
•endorsement not approved by Tony Hawk. Tony Hawk products may or maynot inhance personal performance either on or off the course. Please purchase responsibly. Side effects may include swelled ego, a strong desire to "fit in", stereo-typing by adults, and the potential to listen to punk or alternative music may increase. Void where allowed.
Hey Dude,
When I was just into magic, I saw some stuff at of PH's book that helped me understand what astonishment was, versus "tricks". I bought those books on the spot. PH's books opened the door, as I realized I could search for truly impossible and magical effects. Those books have some GREAT gems in them, really read them carefully. I can't believe that this man created SO much in his career, and that many of his plots have been variated to this day...time and time again - like RESET!
I still think one of the strongest effects in magic comes out of those books...and over 10 years later...I still use 2-3 effects in my professional arsenal. Ugh...I can think of many that I don't use, but have seen people kill with!
Congrats on making an intelligent investment - I think Steerpike forgets that most guys on this thread are buying...well, THREAD...or other DVD's. I give you a pat on the back for buying books that require effort and study. Again, read them front to back, some of the essays are gems.
The magic in these books are not the answer to "elevating your game", but they will make a great stepping stone towards that. Let us know, after a year of reading them, how they changed your magic. Look forward to your post New Year's Eve 2010.
Later.
When I was just into magic, I saw some stuff at of PH's book that helped me understand what astonishment was, versus "tricks". I bought those books on the spot. PH's books opened the door, as I realized I could search for truly impossible and magical effects. Those books have some GREAT gems in them, really read them carefully. I can't believe that this man created SO much in his career, and that many of his plots have been variated to this day...time and time again - like RESET!
I still think one of the strongest effects in magic comes out of those books...and over 10 years later...I still use 2-3 effects in my professional arsenal. Ugh...I can think of many that I don't use, but have seen people kill with!
Congrats on making an intelligent investment - I think Steerpike forgets that most guys on this thread are buying...well, THREAD...or other DVD's. I give you a pat on the back for buying books that require effort and study. Again, read them front to back, some of the essays are gems.
The magic in these books are not the answer to "elevating your game", but they will make a great stepping stone towards that. Let us know, after a year of reading them, how they changed your magic. Look forward to your post New Year's Eve 2010.
Later.
Interesting... if your saying that just reading the books and discovering the "secrets" isn't going to make you a better magician, I agree.
However, if you take the time to go through the books, learn the effects, understand the construction of the effects, (the slights, how to make the gimmicks, the misdirection, how you get ahead of the audience, how the proposed patter enhances the effects), think about how to adapt those effects your own use, practice those effects and then perform them, you will become a better magician.
Art of Astonishment is like any other tool in magic. What matters is how you use it.
Hey everyone, I just posted a response to a somewhat similar thread on The Magic Cafe forums, so I thought I would go ahead and pop my 2 cents in here as well...
First of all, the AoA books are fantastic. Paul Harris is truely a unique, original and creative man. With that said, here is my post:
I have lived my life being a non-conformist. I always question why things are done the way they are. I spent my 4 years in the Marine Corps always looking for different ways for things to get done. I spent my time with my BS in Psychology questioning the great minds of the past, until I got the answers I desired. I always try to be the guy who is different from everyone else; who doesn't seek out the same answers as everyone else. The same applies for me and MY magic.
So in other words, I am always having creative juices flowing with everything in life. When I was in high school, I was offered an art scholarship to a well known art school. I turned it down because I was sick of drawing for everyone else. Which is why I feel I got into stand up comedy and improv.
A lot of originality comes from the minds of non-conformists. If you STRIVE to be different, than you will be different. Unfortunately, there are limitations with everything, and magic is no different. After all, there are only two different ways in which one can turn over two cards as one. And this is very important, because this is where YOU come into play. Finding your own personal character is the key.
We mention the "Magical YouTube Generation" and how bad of performers they are. So let us ask WHY they are bad and WHY there is no originality in their performance...
This one is easy. The age demographic here is primarily between the ages of 9-17. MOST of these bubbas just got their new DVD in the mail and think by just practicing one of the effects for at LEAST 30 minutes, they will be good enough to film it for the world to see. They haven't taken the time to actually LEARN how to perform. They haven't taken the time to STUDY up on magic. They have never been to a brick and mortar shop to get the advice they need from the working pros. They haven't studied up on how to act like a magician. But also, I have seen working pros who perform just as bad as those YouTube bubbas. They can just do way more sleights.
Magic is more than just moves. You are a salesman, and if the people do not like YOU and your characters, then they are not going to give two pieces of dog poo about how cool that card trick is.
I guess what I am saying is that I am a little tired of going into my local magic shop and seeing a group of peeps in the corner raving about how good someone's pass is, or whether or not someone has read Erdnase cover to cover. (Along with the 233,998 variations out there.) I do not care who says this, but my reading Erdnase will NOT make you or me a better magician. Just because someone can execute a Diagonal Palm Shift flawlessly, does NOT make them a better magician than you or me.
If a magician is an actor playing the part of a magician, then why are so many magicians NOT studying up on theatrics as well? How many move monkeys out there have actually paid to have acting lessons, or read books on acting? How many go to regular improv sessions to help develop unique characters/ideas/stories that could somehow relate to their magic? How many study up on psychology to learn HOW to get into someone's mind? To be honest, I have seen SO many bad magicians think they are at the top of the game, all because they can perform a one-handed faro shuffle and we can't. Why are they bad? Because they are only focused on just one side of magic/being a magician, and haven't taken the time to actually learn HOW to perform. And sure, there are exceptions to every rule...
Just because there is a magician out there who performs 4 shows a day, 3 days a week, does NOT mean they are a GREAT magician. He merely knows how to market himself and has studied THAT aspect (the business side) of magic more so than others. Chances are, there are 400 more guys/girls just like him/her, who dress the same, act the same and even perform the same routines as one another.
I am really not sure what I am talking about anymore, as I got off on some sort of venting tangent. But I will say this...if you want to be original, don't conform. Or rather, conform as little as possible. Do NOT settle for only one solution to a problem.
And here is a little exercise that I stick by all the time to help ME create new and fresh ideas: I photocopy a lot of the books I own in magic. I do this because I like to go through the various effects, and black out ANY of the patter. So all I am left with is a bunch of sleights followed by an end result. So analyzing the sleights I now have in front of me with an end result, I try to piece my own story together based upon just the moves. This might be crap and the end result might even be crappier, but at the end of the day, I feel good knowing that I have tried to at least be different.
Mike
First of all, the AoA books are fantastic. Paul Harris is truely a unique, original and creative man. With that said, here is my post:
I have lived my life being a non-conformist. I always question why things are done the way they are. I spent my 4 years in the Marine Corps always looking for different ways for things to get done. I spent my time with my BS in Psychology questioning the great minds of the past, until I got the answers I desired. I always try to be the guy who is different from everyone else; who doesn't seek out the same answers as everyone else. The same applies for me and MY magic.
So in other words, I am always having creative juices flowing with everything in life. When I was in high school, I was offered an art scholarship to a well known art school. I turned it down because I was sick of drawing for everyone else. Which is why I feel I got into stand up comedy and improv.
A lot of originality comes from the minds of non-conformists. If you STRIVE to be different, than you will be different. Unfortunately, there are limitations with everything, and magic is no different. After all, there are only two different ways in which one can turn over two cards as one. And this is very important, because this is where YOU come into play. Finding your own personal character is the key.
We mention the "Magical YouTube Generation" and how bad of performers they are. So let us ask WHY they are bad and WHY there is no originality in their performance...
This one is easy. The age demographic here is primarily between the ages of 9-17. MOST of these bubbas just got their new DVD in the mail and think by just practicing one of the effects for at LEAST 30 minutes, they will be good enough to film it for the world to see. They haven't taken the time to actually LEARN how to perform. They haven't taken the time to STUDY up on magic. They have never been to a brick and mortar shop to get the advice they need from the working pros. They haven't studied up on how to act like a magician. But also, I have seen working pros who perform just as bad as those YouTube bubbas. They can just do way more sleights.
Magic is more than just moves. You are a salesman, and if the people do not like YOU and your characters, then they are not going to give two pieces of dog poo about how cool that card trick is.
I guess what I am saying is that I am a little tired of going into my local magic shop and seeing a group of peeps in the corner raving about how good someone's pass is, or whether or not someone has read Erdnase cover to cover. (Along with the 233,998 variations out there.) I do not care who says this, but my reading Erdnase will NOT make you or me a better magician. Just because someone can execute a Diagonal Palm Shift flawlessly, does NOT make them a better magician than you or me.
If a magician is an actor playing the part of a magician, then why are so many magicians NOT studying up on theatrics as well? How many move monkeys out there have actually paid to have acting lessons, or read books on acting? How many go to regular improv sessions to help develop unique characters/ideas/stories that could somehow relate to their magic? How many study up on psychology to learn HOW to get into someone's mind? To be honest, I have seen SO many bad magicians think they are at the top of the game, all because they can perform a one-handed faro shuffle and we can't. Why are they bad? Because they are only focused on just one side of magic/being a magician, and haven't taken the time to actually learn HOW to perform. And sure, there are exceptions to every rule...
Just because there is a magician out there who performs 4 shows a day, 3 days a week, does NOT mean they are a GREAT magician. He merely knows how to market himself and has studied THAT aspect (the business side) of magic more so than others. Chances are, there are 400 more guys/girls just like him/her, who dress the same, act the same and even perform the same routines as one another.
I am really not sure what I am talking about anymore, as I got off on some sort of venting tangent. But I will say this...if you want to be original, don't conform. Or rather, conform as little as possible. Do NOT settle for only one solution to a problem.
And here is a little exercise that I stick by all the time to help ME create new and fresh ideas: I photocopy a lot of the books I own in magic. I do this because I like to go through the various effects, and black out ANY of the patter. So all I am left with is a bunch of sleights followed by an end result. So analyzing the sleights I now have in front of me with an end result, I try to piece my own story together based upon just the moves. This might be crap and the end result might even be crappier, but at the end of the day, I feel good knowing that I have tried to at least be different.
Mike
He's probably saying that some kid ordering 3 books isn't going to make the slight difference. Unless the material is understood which takes years and years. Alex probably already owns the set, as do I, and is being introspectional. I haven't used so much material from them besides variations that came along later. I'm not speaking for Steerpike. But I got that impression when reading the original post.
That is what I was getting at, but you said it better. Just buying the book isn't going to make a difference. Reading it, working through it, learning from it, adapting the effects, performing the effects, refining the effects, performing the effects again (and repeating that process numerous times) will help you to understand magic better and when you do that, it will make a difference.
Eloquently said. I do though, always have a monkey wrench to throw into the equation. It goes without saying that you'll get better by studying the material. But no one can deny that some people get better than others. It sounds like a rant but it isn't. Something I've been thinking about lately, why are some guys better than others when they all know the same material?
Not an effort to hijack this thread. But is there anything within AoA that touches upon what I've said? In the way as to help the OP understand just what he is getting into.
I have never been in this much agreeance with a single post until this one. I used to stress out about not being great at, not only magic, but music as well, because I just wasnt reaching that virtuoso level. I practice a lot, but still, I stumble around the Chopin Ballades and Liszt's Hungarian Rhapsodies. And I used to stress that I wouldn't get a career in either field, if I didn't know every single move created or piece composed. it wasn't until recently until I realized that all you really need to know is a good double lift and a false shuffle. (minor exaggeration... or is it?) The rest comes after that. I've studied the books of Stanislavski and other great teachers for some time now trying to get my acting skills improved. I've studied books on creativity and thinking, and believe it or not, one of the books that has helped develop my own creativity the most, was The Art of Astonishment. So yes, I believe this book will do wonders for your skill. If you read every word written it will change the way you think, it will inspire, it will even cheer you up on occasion.
It might be a little over the top to assume that a magician needs acting lessons. Sure, its a performance art but good magicians are born, they aren't made.
Highly disagree. You're free to your own opinion, but I disagree. I hate the expression that an artist is born rather than made. The greatest artist work Hard to become as great as they are today.
Most do, for some it just comes naturally. What is there to disagree on about that?
I mentioned a reason or two. I don't disagree with you for the sake of following some sort of bandwagon. I'm disagreeing for the sake of the fact that I disagree with you on this fact.
Most that will disagree with this "fact" are the one's that are trying very hard to bring their magic to another level. What do you think about that?
That I can agree with a little more. Because those people will see the fruits of their labor. I do think people are born with a natural level of skill of course, certain people. But they certainly can't live on that alone. They need to go through the same ropes in the end, it's all the same race... and sometimes... the tortoise is faster than the hare.
You got me on that one! Not like we are in a race but One guy in MA training explained to me that some guys go the "chi" way and others go the physical. In the end though, they are all equally as skillful. Just as a natural way of attacking a problem; those that have it don't use it. And those that don't have it seek it strongly.
There are people who are born with natural abilities. Artists who paint and draw, singers who can belt out at age 4, musicians who can create and recreate any piece of music, and yes, even magicians.
I look at someone like Daniel Garcia and say that he was born with a natural gift to create. Just the same as with Dan Hauss. I can't tell you how many times he has called me up at like 3 am and is like "dude, I just came up with this"...and it is TOTALLY mind blowing!
In terms of acting classes...I was simply saying that because there is actually more to being a magician than just learning an effect. If you want to create a character, you need to study on how to properly create a character. I used to teach improv and sketch comedy writing for years and that is one thing that has carried over into my magic, and that is my crazy characters. I am not saying you HAVE to pay for lessons. But don't be afraid to head over to your local Barnes & Noble and grab a book or two on character creating, improvisation, character development, etc...
Masters never stop learning...
Happy New Year and stuff like that!
Mike
I look at someone like Daniel Garcia and say that he was born with a natural gift to create. Just the same as with Dan Hauss. I can't tell you how many times he has called me up at like 3 am and is like "dude, I just came up with this"...and it is TOTALLY mind blowing!
In terms of acting classes...I was simply saying that because there is actually more to being a magician than just learning an effect. If you want to create a character, you need to study on how to properly create a character. I used to teach improv and sketch comedy writing for years and that is one thing that has carried over into my magic, and that is my crazy characters. I am not saying you HAVE to pay for lessons. But don't be afraid to head over to your local Barnes & Noble and grab a book or two on character creating, improvisation, character development, etc...
Masters never stop learning...
Happy New Year and stuff like that!
Mike