Bottom Deal problems?

Discussion in 'Magic Forum' started by ArcticChibi, Aug 21, 2011.

  1. Hey T11 forums!

    I need some tips with my bottom deal. I just finished watching the instruction video by Jason England, but when I try any of the techniques, my hand is too small and the deck doesn't stay in the grip. Is it possible to do the bottom deal with the straddle grip? That's how a youtube video showed it.
  2. Hello,

    You're first problem is considering trusting a YouTube video over Jason England ;)

    I can tell you now that is very very very unlikely that your hand is too small to bottom deal. If you really struggle with the grip though, you could try using bridge-sized cards to begin with if you want.

    Just keep re-watching the Bottom Deal 1-on-1 and keep practicing, especially focusing on the grip to begin with as that seems to be your main problem and you'll get it eventually.
  3. Yes, it is possible to do a bottom deal with a straddle grip. In fact, Dr Elliott, who Dai Vernon (among others) described as the best bottom dealer he'd ever seen, dealt from a straddle grip. However, don't give up so quickly on the techniques Mr England taught. Erdnase, who knew a thing or two about the bottom deal, described having this very issue of grip-slippage, but it gets better and may even disappear completely after you practice more and the muscles of your hand get used to the grip.
  4. Haha thanks for all the tips. I didn't really choose youtube over Jason England. xD I actually learned the youtube way before going to Jason. Of course, he is the modern master of the card table :)

    It's really giving me a bulging vein though. I try to grip it with my palm and (middle finger I believe?), but most of the deck ends up slipping out and falling or slipping in and ruining the grip. I'll try using my tropicana cards. O:

    Ok thanks for the tips! :) I'll try and practice more and more. Hopefully, I can do as well as him someday.
  5. for the beggining try with bridge size....:)
  6. It is very rare for one grip to work for you immediately. It took me about a year of practice and experimentation with dozens of different techniques to find a grip that worked for me. If you are serious about bottom dealing you will probably end up constantly refining it throughout the years any way. Good luck.
  7. It`s gonna take you a few days/weeks until you feel comfortable with the grip, a few months where you can start doing the deal more deceptively, and a few years until you really master it. It is a very hard move, so don`t worry it is supposed to be hard, so just keep practising. You should start with Erdnase's grip, but later, when you are more used to bottom dealing, you can try different grips, and choose one that appeals more to you. It is different for everyone which grip is better for them.

    There is bottom dealing with the straddle grip, I heard it is in Weapons of The Card Shark, I don`t have the DVD, so someone please correct me if I`m wrong, but don't give up on the Erdnase, keep practising it. Like I said, this is a move that takes time.
  8. it's not in the grip. bottom deals takes years of practice. don't think you'll get good in a couple of months
  9. So, is your goal to come on here and just tell everyone they are wrong?

    The grip is part of the move. That's why there are different grips.
  10. I can do bottoms in erdnase, erdnase modified, straddle, and mechanic's grip. and my hands aren't large. but it has taken me hundreds of hours of practice to get where I am now. when I started with my bottoms, I could barely get a purchase on the bottom card. and the grip doesn't have to be as ''written in the book''. modify it to suit you best, and don't use mechanic's grip. I have seen only one perfect bottom deal from that grip. use gene maze, or straddle.

  11. must be pretty good, can you do a demo video so we can all see what your bottoms look like from the different grips? im sure we can learn something.
  12. To answer the original poster, I too bougth the fondation download a little ago and start practicing the bottom just recently. I had to "modify" a little to "pivot" point because it wasn't feeling good in my hand. Sure, maybe my hand are a little bigger than yours, but the new pivot point make my bottom deal flow better than the original was. Dont forget to begin with 2/3 of the deck and after goign for all the deck. Also, you can begin with bridge size deck insteed of poker size deck.
  13. What I noticed personally, was that when dealing cards we tend to be on a table that we have to put our arms on thus putting the deck in a vertical tilt. Try on a smaller table or stand up and do it, keeping the deck level with the table.

  14. don't do youtube videos, but I could skype session with you.
  15. #15 THE DEALER, Oct 24, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 24, 2012
  16. I learned the Erdnase method 20 years ago directly from the pages...And have basically just come back to the bottom deal after not using it for at least 5 years. Wanting to expand my horizons I bought the Jason England Foundations DVD and the Mechanic DVD from Madison. Jason is a great teacher and such a classy guy! If anyone is wondering which DVD to get to learn the bottom deal from...I highly suggest Jason England over don't worry, you have the right guy teaching you!. ...And as other's said...Use a Bridge size deck of cards to start practicing! I hadn't done the deal in years and used my bridge size deck just to get back in the flow. After a week I was able to switch back over to my Bee's and the transition was fine!
  17. Ha! I just replied to another bottom deal thread and mentioned how Jason's large hands can be a bit frustrating as his hands swallow the deck.

    The advice given above is all spot on, and it's really about practice, and adjusting your pivots, pressures, and timings.

    However, with all due respect to HoustonC1, I highly recommend you watch Madison's handling in the "Mechanic" DVD set. The adjusted grip and his approach to avoiding knuckle flash are brilliant, relevant, useful and very practical. I've been bottom dealing for many years and love Madison's approach enough to adapt it to my own.

    Jason is amazing and I would follow him to the moon and back just to shake his hand, but especially given the issue mentioned, you will likely find Madison's approach, technique, and thoughts on this extremely helpful and should definitely be considered in adding to your knowledge along your journey. Madison is not the end all be all, but his approach is definitely worth a look.

    Friends don't let friends knuckle flash. ;)

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