Bringing People to Jesus through Magic

[jimbowmanjr]

I just wanted to point out, since I know SoulGrind won't self-promote his own threads, that he made a great thread over on the E forums about Gospel Magic.

http://www.elusionist.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74665

I thought there were some excellent ideas in this thread for anyone who is looking to include a bit of God's message in their magic.

--Jim

 

[y2john]

How can one be right over the other?
They can't as to each individual what they believe in is true

On 911, we where attacked by terrorists, they killed thousands of people. So according to you, you are saying that they where right to do so. I mean, who is to say they where wrong? They have a religion to, not only that. But they have a different version of history in the Koran, then we do in the Bible, and other history books. According to your logic, none of them our wrong, both interpretations of history are right, even though they both say two completely different things.



I accept everyone's different beliefs and don't look down on anyone for what they believe.


So you would have no problem have dinner in the mist of murders, robbers, and liars, because they all believe that what they are doing is right.

Sorry, not trying to be mean, just had to say my thoughts as well.

Your twisting what I said and giving a different meaning to my words.
It's hard in writing to get across points like these but to reply with the statements you made is immature as you know what I really meant.
Your taking what I said literally instead of thinking about it.
I wasn't even talking about acts that took place in the past.
I said that I don't look down on anyone for there religion and beliefs... it doesn't matter to me what country someone comes from or what religion they are apart of as they have there right to believe what they want, but it's pretty obvious I was not saying how you made it out to sound.
This is why I don't really wanna get involved in threads on issues such as this as things can get misinterperated and twisted to mean all sorts of things.

On topic... Michael Paul has a gospel trick involving the story of christ... might wanna check it out.

 

[joshua barrett]

dean dill has some stuff to check his site.

 

[Dtyler]

Just a funny perspective

Hey everyone I just thought I would post and say I have run into similar problems and successes. I currently am employed by a church and do work with youth. I always have a deck of cards even though my mom’s parents have said that I should not play with “devil cards” as they make you do evil things. I keep a deck of cards with me so I can do tricks at any time just to entertain. I finally thought that I should ask more pastors opinions. One gave me the recommendation of “when people think that it is more than just a trick it might be going to far.” So to start off basically every trick set I do I say it is just a trick or very fast hands. I am interested to hear other opinions on the matter. I seem to avoid some tricks because of the reaction they give as it is not having a good impact. I find that magic can be a very helpful thing as well as it draws peoples attention in. It almost allows you to bond with them in another way and they will remember you and what you talked about.

 

[S3al]

Your twisting what I said and giving a different meaning to my words.
It's hard in writing to get across points like these but to reply with the statements you made is immature as you know what I really meant.
Your taking what I said literally instead of thinking about it.
I wasn't even talking about acts that took place in the past.
I said that I don't look down on anyone for there religion and beliefs...

it doesn't matter to me what country someone comes from or what religion they are apart of as they have there right to believe what they want, but it's pretty obvious I was not saying how you made it out to sound.
This is why I don't really wanna get involved in threads on issues such as this as things can get misinterperated and twisted to mean all sorts of things.

On topic... Michael Paul has a gospel trick involving the story of christ... might wanna check it out.

I wasn't even talking about acts that took place in the past

I'm sorry, so when you said, "how can one be more right then the other" did that only apply after a certain date? like after 2001 or something?



Your taking what I said literally instead of thinking about it.



I'm sorry, I wont take you seriously any more. And I did not twist anything, I took you at your word. Pm me if you want to talk about it, don't do it in the topic.

 

[S3al]

Hey everyone I just thought I would post and say I have run into similar problems and successes. I currently am employed by a church and do work with youth. I always have a deck of cards even though my mom’s parents have said that I should not play with “devil cards” as they make you do evil things. I keep a deck of cards with me so I can do tricks at any time just to entertain. I finally thought that I should ask more pastors opinions. One gave me the recommendation of “when people think that it is more than just a trick it might be going to far.” So to start off basically every trick set I do I say it is just a trick or very fast hands. I am interested to hear other opinions on the matter. I seem to avoid some tricks because of the reaction they give as it is not having a good impact. I find that magic can be a very helpful thing as well as it draws peoples attention in. It almost allows you to bond with them in another way and they will remember you and what you talked about.

What sort of card tricks do you do?

but on a side note. If people think that you have powers because you made a 7 come up on your arm, or you told someone what card they where thinking of, after you have already stated what it really is ect,ect, then we have a problem.

 

[Brewery Rabbit]

Have you heard of the IBM or the SAM? I would expect so. Well, Christian magicians have an organization too. It's FCM (Fellowship of Christian Magicians).

You can find them at http://www.fcm.org and they have a GREAT article on this EXACT subject...

I have found this essay to be invaluable as a backup to my gospel routines...

http://www.fcm.org/should_a_christian_do_magic.php

Give it a read - it's definitely thought provoking as well as informative.

Cheers!

Oh wow!

That is cool.

Dave, Great read.

*leaves*

~Jordan

 

[Justin.Morris]

Hey everyone I just thought I would post and say I have run into similar problems and successes. I currently am employed by a church and do work with youth. I always have a deck of cards even though my mom’s parents have said that I should not play with “devil cards” as they make you do evil things. I keep a deck of cards with me so I can do tricks at any time just to entertain. I finally thought that I should ask more pastors opinions. One gave me the recommendation of “when people think that it is more than just a trick it might be going to far.” So to start off basically every trick set I do I say it is just a trick or very fast hands. I am interested to hear other opinions on the matter. I seem to avoid some tricks because of the reaction they give as it is not having a good impact. I find that magic can be a very helpful thing as well as it draws peoples attention in. It almost allows you to bond with them in another way and they will remember you and what you talked about.

I'm much the same way. I always carry cards/coins etc. Usually the kids are asking to see something or want me to show their friends something.

I don't have much in the way of "gospel" magic (I haven't found much that is not super cheesy to be honest), Although I may use a trick to illustrate a concept in Christianity.

Personally I find it best to do a couple of effects and then turn all the attention to the student. I ask them about them. What they like to do, where they hang out, what movies they like, whatever.
If the conversation moves to talking about God, then I will share the gospel clearly, and simply. I think for me trying to do an effect while sharing the gospel would not help to make it clearer, but more than likely do the opposite.

I suppose my reasoning is this: When someone is faced with the most important decision in their life, I don't want to have any of the focus (i.e. "Woah! How'd you do that?") I want them to be thinking about their own life and the choice that is at hand.


In regards to magic and the devil, my stepmom (very conservative) used to be fairly apprehensive about it and after entertaining her for a while she enjoys it and realizes that it is all tricks.

I get a ton of comments like "I know magic is just sleight of hand and stuff, but that Criss Angel on tv gives me the creeps!"

Justin

 

[John Jorgensen]

Wow!! The inherent duplicity in intentions is overwhelming. Other then spreading the word, what is the purpose of this thread? I'm honestly asking and not making a jive of any sort.

John

 

[Justin.Morris]

Wow!! The inherent duplicity in intentions is overwhelming. Other then spreading the word, what is the purpose of this thread? I'm honestly asking and not making a jive of any sort.

John

Perhaps coming from a different perspective, this may seem odd, but the reality is that Christians are genuinely faced with these dilemmas and it is really great to read and discuss what others are thinking and feeling.

Hope that helps.

J

 

[John Jorgensen]

I agree that it's nice to discuss such things, but what is being discussed? How to spread the word using magic? How to overcome biases? How to get believers(of any nomination) to accept your magic for magic and not a slight on their beliefs? Is it this thread about what presentations do we use? Is it about performing for other religious people or non religious people?

John

 

[Shodan]

I personally think that magic has nothing to do with the spreading of memes, but that's just me.

 

[nooby]

well, personally as a christian, i do not do tricks that seems to be "supernatural" such as using loops or IT or perhaps stigmata. I am more than happy to admit it is sleight of hand and not some black arts i possess. =D magic is a great great way to introduce urself and people will open up much much better than perhaps if you said, "do you jesus christ?"

my favourite trick with a gospel message would be professor's nightmare tweaked for each of the ropes representing a man according to how much sin he has and i ask the audience which man has a better chance of getting to heaven (then all 3 ropes become all the same length).

 

[StreetMage]

I will make one comment that is sleightly off-topic, and one only. . . and I will not respond to counter-arguments. Truth is not relative. What is true for one person is true for everyone. People do not have the ability to individually decide the truth. Truth is absolute. Diamonds are hard. This is the truth. No matter how hard one person believes that diamonds are softer than balsiwood, it will never happen. Human blood is red when it hits air, and dark red/purple when inside the body. This has been true since the dawn of mankind, and one individual deciding man has green blood will not change this. If I decide that I have one million dollars in my wallet this instant, that does not make it so. It is the same with religion. One person or many people believing in a false god will never compromise the existence or authority of the real one.

Now, on-topic. . . I have no qualms about being a Christian and performing magic, and I've never had anybody act like it was a problem. I've caught more flack for playing Dungeons & Dragons than I ever did for performing magic. I actually walked up to one of those Gideon-guys once and did a piece of Gospel magic for him involving one of the New Testaments he was handing out and the Revolution coin vanish. As long as you're not using magic to convince someone you're doing miracles, you're fine. Gospel magic, or the act of using magic to tell the story of the Gospel, is a perfectly legitimate and effective way of spreading Christ's truth.

 

[nickmagic]

if u want to use magic to make more christians, the next time u do a trick to your friends or complete strangers and when they say it is magic or a miracle, u should say. do u know what the real miracle is??? that jesus died to save us from our sins. (this is if u are a question

by the way sorry for bringing up christ again, since some people aren't christians

nickmagic

 

[y2john]

First off topic (very last time)

Lol S3al...

This will be my last post in this topic and will keep it to PM's from now.

There is a difference between accepting someone's beliefs and religion, to accepting atrocities commited.

You say you didn't bring up acts, yet you felt the need to mention 9/11??
This had nothing to do with my post.

If you really didn't understand my post then im not gonna explain anymore as it will be falling on deaf ears.

You can reply however you like as ive spent as much time as im willing to replying to you.

On topic...

So did anyone check out Michael Paul's effect??
If you like gospel effects then i'd imagine this would be great as Michael Paul's material is very good

 

[jimbowmanjr]

my favourite trick with a gospel message would be professor's nightmare tweaked for each of the ropes representing a man according to how much sin he has and i ask the audience which man has a better chance of getting to heaven (then all 3 ropes become all the same length).

Incredible idea you have there nooby and one that is very practical and definitely something almost any Christian can relate to as a magical lesson.

--Jim

 

[nooby]

Incredible idea you have there nooby and one that is very practical and definitely something almost any Christian can relate to as a magical lesson.

--Jim

actually it was taught to me by a children's evangelist. =D anyone else would like to share their gospel application to magic tricks? i'm still trying to crack my head on how to modify the ambitious card routine for that...

 

[Dtyler]

Could say somthing about how we sinned and tried to run away from God yet he always is bound and determined to find us again.

 

[Justin.Morris]

The only gospel routine that I use is using slush powder. (I learned this at a church children's Sunday school convention)
(I assume this isn't really exposure because it is obvious what slush powder does...)

You need:
2 clear plastic cups and 1 Styrofoam cup
Some slush powder
Some red and black food coloring
A pencil/pen

Prep:
a few drops of red food coloring in one clear cup -(they cant's see this from a few feet away)
slush powder in the Styrofoam cup
Water in the other clear cup

The show:
You present the cup of clear water as mankind, or us as individuals

You talk about how sin entered the world and marred the human soul/relationship with God. (as you do this you drop black food coloring into the waterYou can also talk about how it only takes 1 sin to be enough to mar us, but we haven't stopped at one etc.

You then introduce God's plan of sending his son to be the savior of the world and that He shed his blood to cover our sin. As you talk about Jesus you pour the murky water into the other clear cup - it all turns red!

You then explain about repentance and accepting this gift that is freely offered to us. You can then talk about how when we accept this gift and repent and believe, our sins are washed away and are gone! As you say this, you pour the red water into the Styrofoam cup. They assume you just mean that they cant see it, then you say - "totally gone!" and turn the cup over

You can at this point crumple the top of the cup, or as I prefer, stick a pencil through the cup and turn it upside down.

Although be careful and make sure you use a styrofoam cup. I did this once with one of those colored plastic cups and the water came out like a can of mushroom soup and landed on the table. Funny stuff. It made for a good laugh and I just talked about how God was so much better at getting rid of our sins for real. Heh heh.

Hope you enjoy it!

j