theory11 — Magic Tricks & the World's Finest Playing Cards

Dear, Sweet Jen : A Short Story

I don't question your ability to write for fun, I'm questioning your right to call what you produce good, when on every objective level it fails. You can tell stories, you have stuff to say, but that's about 2% of the battle. Your execution is shocking, and you need to really work hard on it. As I said in another thread, read every sentence, hand pick every word, think about what you want to have come across. There's a difference between perfection and taking any kind of care about what you're writing!

Or to quote a line from a novel, which some may recognize:

"A single sun starkened cloud etched against the sky floated gently over the soft, haze obscured landscape, pocketed with outcrops of greenery that reached upwards sharing in the act of respiring, retaining, relishing every passing moment on the very best day to die. Sharing the same air. The air he breathed on the hilltop. The air that would always be there, that would always hold the words that were so unsatisfactorily uttered and the sweet smell of her breath."

I wonder how long the author spent trying to compose that? I guarantee you it was longer than it took for you to write that entire piece.
 
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OneCardWonder, nowhere did Machael claim that the peice was good, just fun to write, it's not like he's goning to attempt to sell it as a book or anything, and like he said, did you read the story expecting perfection? No one is perfect at anything, and it seems to me that you are not interested in giving him any advise to make his writing better. What if you showed me a magic trick and I started insulting you and telling that your magic offended me, and that you should quit magic because your at perfect at it? That is just what you are telling Michael.
 
demon5magic said:
OneCardWonder, nowhere did Machael claim that the peice was good, just fun to write, it's not like he's goning to attempt to sell it as a book or anything, and like he said, did you read the story expecting perfection? No one is perfect at anything, and it seems to me that you are not interested in giving him any advise to make his writing better. What if you showed me a magic trick and I started insulting you and telling that your magic offended me, and that you should quit magic because your at perfect at it? That is just what you are telling Michael.
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There's a difference between perfection and trash. It's hyperbolic in the extreme to associate what he wrote with perfection or not being perfect. I'm not looking for perfection, I'm looking for some evidence that he didn't just throw random words on the page and declare it 'good.'

You'll notice that I did give him advice, which he won't follow, but the fact is, bad writing makes me angry especially when posted to get feedback from people that wouldn't know acceptable writing if it attacked them with a stick.

And I've seen harsher criticism bandied about based on someone's video performance of a trick, which was far less deserving of it than this tosh.

But whatever. I'm not getting drawn into a drama fest. I stated my opinion, and he can either take it as it is and attempt to gleam why it irritated me so much or not, that's up to him and in either event it doesn't require you to rush to his aid.
 
I'm not going for intense symbolism and fierce originality, I'm practicing an artform I really appreciate. This is only my fourth short story, please give me a break. Calling it "trash" is pushing it... you may consider it bad, but I'm sure you could find plenty more stories you find to be worse than mine.
 
OneCardWonder said:
There's a difference between perfection and trash. It's hyperbolic in the extreme to associate what he wrote with perfection or not being perfect. I'm not looking for perfection, I'm looking for some evidence that he didn't just throw random words on the page and declare it 'good.'

You'll notice that I did give him advice, which he won't follow, but the fact is, bad writing makes me angry especially when posted to get feedback from people that wouldn't know acceptable writing if it attacked them with a stick.

And I've seen harsher criticism bandied about based on someone's video performance of a trick, which was far less deserving of it than this tosh.

But whatever. I'm not getting drawn into a drama fest. I stated my opinion, and he can either take it as it is and attempt to gleam why it irritated me so much or not, that's up to him and in either event it doesn't require you to rush to his aid.
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OneCardWonder, please send me your work. I'd love to see how much better it is than my own to learn from it. If my work angers you, I expect to adore your work. I'm not trying to write an award-winning piece, I'm writing for the fun of it and I happen to think this particular piece is my best work and, in my opinion, above-average.
 
OneCardWonder said:
There's a difference between perfection and trash. It's hyperbolic in the extreme to associate what he wrote with perfection or not being perfect. I'm not looking for perfection, I'm looking for some evidence that he didn't just throw random words on the page and declare it 'good.'

You'll notice that I did give him advice, which he won't follow, but the fact is, bad writing makes me angry especially when posted to get feedback from people that wouldn't know acceptable writing if it attacked them with a stick.

And I've seen harsher criticism bandied about based on someone's video performance of a trick, which was far less deserving of it than this tosh.

But whatever. I'm not getting drawn into a drama fest. I stated my opinion, and he can either take it as it is and attempt to gleam why it irritated me so much or not, that's up to him and in either event it doesn't require you to rush to his aid.
Click to expand...

OneCardWonder, please send me your work. I'd love to see how much better it is than my own to learn from it. If my work angers you, I expect to adore your work. I'm not trying to write an award-winning piece, I'm writing for the fun of it and I happen to think this particular piece is my best work and, in my opinion, above-average.


You're not helping me. Helping me would be to provide constructive criticisms, not saying my work makes you want to vomit. To be honest, after you insulted me, I stopped reading your post, and I don't plan on reading your posts in here anytime soon... there may be very helpful advice, but I wouldn't know. After I was told to quit writing forever and stick to magic, I didn't care to go further.
 
Quite frankly I would also say that what OneCardWonder did was far away from trying to give some good advice for improvement. Imagine a Math teacher writing "I am offended by this piece of bs" under one of their students tests? :rolleyes: Well I bet some of them would like to do that! But they dont if they are any good because that helps their students in no way and certainly doesnt get them more motivated. And "being offended" by a writing sounds to me like one of these weird guys that take literature way too serious and actually think they are intellectual superior because they can read and (think to) understand shakespeare or stuff like that.
And to Michael: I think you`re talented. I am not an expert in literature but i read quite a lot and i know what i like and what i dont like. And I liked your writing. Keep working on it and keep having fun with it.
 
Just saying, I was highly moved by this piece of writing. From my point of view, it was fantastic. I don't care if some words could have been changed slightly, the all round feel of the text would stay the same.
OneCardWonder, not everyone who reads knows all the ins and outs of creative writing. Don't complain because something isn't perfect, admire it for what is great about it.
 
It's okay. Not nearly as spectacular as a lot of people here are saying, but not trash.

You're trying to use repetition as a literary device. It doesn't work in this case. More than that, I didn't find the main character sympathetic. . . I found him obsessed, stalker-ish, and a little scary.

More than that, OCW was right. This doesn't feel real at all. The ending was predictable, and while in some cases that really doesn't matter. . . it did here. And their reason for being together is lacking. They met and then were instantly together, there's no middle, they break up.

How old are they when they break up?

Your use of language feels fake, too. You try and be too wordy when you don't need to be. If you like, I could send you something I put together last semester. It isn't spectacular, but it certainly isn't bad.

There's more to be said but I can't think straight right now. >>
 
Thank you. I'm not sure how the main character came off as stalkerish... and it's hard to put extreme detail in a 3 page story... but I did my best.

OCW seems to think anything less superior than work he considers "good writing" is appalling, disgusting garbage written in poisonous ink that should have never left the writer's thoughts. It's almost enough to crush one spirits, not to mention I didn't learn a single damn thing from him.

Anyways, I digress. The character was reminiscing about past times... recalling the most vivid, memorable, impactful moments of being with Jen. That's why there's no "middle" as you say. The beginning and end are most important in this case.

Personally, I feel my best work is in Counting Tiles.. another short story I've posted here. Please check it out. Don't expect depth, because that's not what Counting Tiles is about. It's just about as surfaced as writing can get, but that was my intention.
 
But without a middle, there's no way that people can get a feel for your characters. You jump IMMEDIATELY from the beginning to the end without even saying "and then it was good".

Do you _know_ what the middle was? Because even if you don't include it, you should know it so that you can write characters that had a full life, instead of just a half-existence. You need to know your character's emotions before you can write full, breathing characters. "Love" isn't good enough. You need the why and the how, even if you don't put them in.

One more time, I'm going to offer to let you read over my story. It's about a man crushed by the world, told by someone who watched it happen. I'm pretty proud of it, despite the negative criticism it garnered. But more importantly, I think it might help you flesh out some of your own writing some, because it's told from a similar point of view and happens in a similar fashion, a story told "back in time".

Up to you though.
 
Okay. Just read Counting Tiles.

And I had no idea why he killed himself or why it was horror.

And why would you make it as surface as it can get? That sounds like an excuse.

Dear, Sweet Jen had a point. Counting Tiles didn't. That's like me posting a piece of writing I did for a seminar about two snipers aiming at each other and calling it suspense because they die. Suicide doesn't make for scary.

He seems scornful towards the world. Why would someone scornful be suicidal? He isn't depressed, he's just an *******.
 
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