Debate vs. Argument vs. Opinion

[CallingEagle]

This might turn into one of the three or all of the three but I guess that will be expected. Anyways I've looked at the forums here at T11 and they're great I love forum where great discussions take place and wisdom and advice are share. I am also at E on there forums as well. Anyways I've noticed here there is quite a lot of debating, arguing, and opinion on these threads . Now I don't mind the occasional debate it lets others know what each other is thinking and their views, but debates can get out of hand and almost throwing punches.

As I was reading a couple of the threads where there were a lot of debating it became a boxing match and some were getting silly about trying to make there own points. I know by having many respectful debates that in a respectful debate the attitude is "I may not agree with what you say but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." Some in the threads were really not seeing that point.

I myself have gotten into heated debates that some have turned into arguments.

Debates whether respectful or heated have in the right way ended in an agreement to disagree. Which I'm sure a lot of us will see it that way and don't mind to agree to disagree...which also allows us to respect each other after wards.

Now Arguments are pretty much boxing matches and probably further in life outside of the internet, but it stays boxing on the net. Though there were some swings on the threads. Arguments are not an agreement to disagree they are selfish in the mindset of "I'm right and you're wrong." With no respect for others in the end of said argument unless you are actually good friends and can work out the situation.

Opinions are opinions and that's where the mindset of "I may not agree with what you say but I'll defend to the death you're right to say it." comes in. It allows for an argument to turn into a debate and a heated debate to turn into a respectful debate.

Forums and ones about magic are known as communities and in some cases families. That's why I don't mind the casual debates because even in your actual family or community there are such things. Now with us being a community or family(however you want to see us) there is some ideas on what are conversations probably should be like.

Anyone who wishes to add can add and those who do not agree that is your opinion and I do respect that. So there you have it some Native American wisdom...Just kidding.

 

[descartes]

Anyways I've noticed here there is quite a lot of debating, arguing, and opinion on these threads . Now I don't mind the occasional debate it lets others know what each other is thinking and their views, but debates can get out of hand and almost throwing punches.

As I was reading a couple of the threads where there were a lot of debating it became a boxing match and some were getting silly about trying to make there own points. I know by having many respectful debates that in a respectful debate the attitude is "I may not agree with what you say but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." Some in the threads were really not seeing that point.

Are you refering to the thread with the multipage argument between William Draven and Brad Henderson? It helps to know if you are making a specific statement or a general observation.

The whole bit about "defend to the death your right to say whatever" would be relevant if someone was trying to silence another person. I don't see where anyone has tried to do that on these forums.

Debates whether respectful or heated have in the right way ended in an agreement to disagree. Which I'm sure a lot of us will see it that way and don't mind to agree to disagree...which also allows us to respect each other after wards.

Now Arguments are pretty much boxing matches and probably further in life outside of the internet, but it stays boxing on the net. Though there were some swings on the threads. Arguments are not an agreement to disagree they are selfish in the mindset of "I'm right and you're wrong." With no respect for others in the end of said argument unless you are actually good friends and can work out the situation.

Sometimes, the agree to disagree thing becomes a cop out as Brad Henderson pointed out in the other thread. Of course, we are not having a moderated debate here, so such a cop out is often unavoidable, but a good debate is all about trying to convince people about your point of view and making them change their dearly held opinions.

Forums and ones about magic are known as communities and in some cases families. That's why I don't mind the casual debates because even in your actual family or community there are such things. Now with us being a community or family(however you want to see us) there is some ideas on what are conversations probably should be like.

Anyone who wishes to add can add and those who do not agree that is your opinion and I do respect that. So there you have it some Native American wisdom...Just kidding.

I don't mind the occasional strong debate on the forum (as opposed to casual debate, which is often too weak to be of any use). It often brings out opinions from people who care deeply about things related to magic and can sometimes lead to you learning more or thinking about things in a different way. As long as people aren't being abusive and/or disrespectful, I think these multipage debates are ok.


P.S. I doubt this thread will become a long winding debate/argument, but who knows?

 

[CallingEagle]

Sometimes, the agree to disagree thing becomes a cop out as Brad Henderson pointed out in the other thread. Of course, we are not having a moderated debate here, so such a cop out is often unavoidable, but a good debate is all about trying to convince people about your point of view and making them change their dearly held opinions.

I'm making a general observation and not just in one of the threads but in a few. What you say here is true, but remember we're all on different levels of experience in magic and if someone of a lower level experience is trying to convince a higher level experienced magician of his own opinion that's where really needing to try to change their opinion. I myself am more of a medium range in magic skills, but you really don't need certain skills levels to argue...anyone can. I'm also saying that if people start to get silly and fight their opinion onto to someone else especially when hostility grows.

I also know that we won't ever really know each other skill levels for certain even if someone tells us(not everyone is truthful). Remember these are my observations and my general opinions on the three levels of conversation. I don't appose arguments or debates being that many things in this world have been settled by such manners of conversation. That's why I did say in the end that if anyone wishes to add their thought's they are welcomed and if anyone wishes to challenge they are welcomed as well.

Thank you descartes for your input on this topic. I'm not sure if this will grow into anything more than my post here I have a history of threads dying after my posts(probably just coincidence tho).