Ellusionist and theory11 - Same Thing?

[clllllust]

Hey everyone,
This topic so far has given some great points to both sides, and it's glad to see no one has lost their cool. Just make sure you're talking about the differences between both sites and not trying to bash a specific one.

I think everything has basically been said, since Ellusionist and Theory11 may look the same. For the lay-out and such, what goes on behind the scenes is 100% of it's own. They each operate differently and market different effects. In some ways yes they are similar but, in numerous ways they are unique from eachother. They are both amazing websites, the only 2 online magic retailers I buy from.

-RA69

 

[Bijlogg]

Not that I want to perpetuate an already over discussed topic, but...

They both sell single effects on DVD at around $30 a time.
They both sell their own brand of clothing (how this will advance magic is beyond me)
They are both aiming their services at the same market, just one uses the word 'underground' instead of 'street'
They are both masters of marketing, making us go mad over products that without such promotion we would probably ignore.
They both have their own playing cards.

I could go on, but the way I see it, that despite the obvious similarities people will choose their favourite and then strongly deny any similarities to the other.

Tom

 

[Deleted member 2755]

I have to say that saying Ellusionist and Theory 11 are two different sites is completely wrong, however, they do have their differences.

First I'll start why they are different. Theory 11 and Ellusionist have different communities. Ellusionist is very uptight with their forums. You are restricted to saying a lot of things and threads can get deleted often. Theory 11's forums are a lot looser. People can really speak their minds here. If you look at Ellusionist's forums, I doubt you will ever find a single bad review. Why? Well I cannot confirm this, but several times I have heard that Ellusionist moderators and administrators are told to delete bad reviews to make their products look only amazing and nothing less. Well why don't you find bad reviews on Theory 11? Because the only things they have released so far are amazing, but there are cons to everything and when stating those cons, I have never seen a post edited because of it.
I do feel that Theory 11's tricks are better, I like the fact that their cards are cheaper than E's, but I do like the look of E's cards a bit more as well as the feel. However, I love using Guardians and use them almost as much as I use my E decks.

Why are they similar? Have a look around. After staying for a while on Theory 11 because of their better community (in my opinion), I have noticed they are similar. They both go for that "This site is kickass" look. Both E and Theory 11 have awesome music in their trailers and DVDs, and they both have pretty good names. They are both going for the same people. If you haven't noticed, most people on Theory 11 are indeed teenagers like myself (Notice I said most, so I don't need a bunch of posts from people saying how they are like 26 )

Anyway, in my opinion, both sites are excellent. Ellusionist has been around for a while so they do have a bunch of cool things on there, but Theory 11 in my opinion has a few cool things, but everything they have is really cool and amazing, and the community is better. So while they go for the same marketing strategy, the same audiences, and try to have amazing products, they are different in quite a few ways.

-Doug

(Might be a lot of grammar errors, I'm tired and too lazy to reread this post to proofread)

 

[magicman2292]

dude seriously, i downloaded ninja 1, crash course 1 and 2, inside magic 1 and 2, and all they teach are stupid simple stuff. anyone who knows what a double lift is can do those stupid effects. i mean cmon they teach u the mechanic's grip. ur paying 40 bucks for a dvd that all the tricks are LAME and u already know em.

 

[Deleted member 2755]

dude seriously, i downloaded ninja 1, crash course 1 and 2, inside magic 1 and 2, and all they teach are stupid simple stuff. anyone who knows what a double lift is can do those stupid effects. i mean cmon they teach u the mechanic's grip. ur paying 40 bucks for a dvd that all the tricks are LAME and u already know em.

While I know how to do mechanics grip, I don't know many of the things on those DVDs. I'm also not that good at a double lift. Maybe you know how to do these things because you are more experienced, but maybe for someone who isn't as experienced like myself can learn a few things from these DVDs. If you haven't noticed, most of Brad's DVDs are for beginners. So before posting something like that, please think about the fact that not everyone knows how to do the things that are taught on those DVDs.

-Doug

 

[Bijlogg]

i remember lee asher saying that all u need is 3 tricks.

Lee Asher was right, but that doesn't mean someone can simply bang three effects on a site and that's everyone sorted. Finding those three perfect effects will take a lot of time and require knowledge from a number of resources. In the same way, what might be a graet trick for you, might be utter garbage for me. If I was a stage mentalist the best coin DVD in the world wouldn't help me at all.

That's why it doesn't hurt to have a shop you can trust that has a lot of material, because everyone needs something different. You don't have to go buy everything in the shop.

And anyway, if you think the best way to improve this site is for them to make some 'sick' decks perhaps you should reconsider your approach to making strong magic.

Well I cannot confirm this, but several times I have heard that Ellusionist moderators and administrators are told to delete bad reviews to make their products look only amazing and nothing less.

Please don't post rumours, this it totally untrue. If there is to be any point in this thread, we should at least consider 'facts'

Tom

 

[Steerpike]

Think about Ellusionist. I don't see them trying to better the youth of magicians. They are out there to sell and hype as many tricks as possible to get those sales. Am I hating on ellusionist..most likely because that's what it is.

Well, that's it. It's all downhill from here.

ellusionist and theory 11 arent the same thing. if u think about it. when u watch the ellusionist preview vids, u can sometimes tell how the trick is done, or it doesnt look too surprising.

Once again, magicians demonstrate their complete inability to think of anything other than methods.

This is why maybe 1% of this entire forum could ever make it professionally in the long run.

also, ellusionist has over 150 tricks, and some of them are lame, while theory 11 has around 6-7 GREAT tricks. i remember lee asher saying that all u need is 3 tricks. master those and ur good to go.

Bogus strawman argument.

ellusionist doesnt do that, they think that u need millions of tricks, but if u get many tricks , u wont take the time to learn and master them all. but they give u a better variety.

Have you spoken to Team E personally? Am I to believe you possess some sort of insight on this matter that I do not?

also, the reason why penguin magic sucks, is because they got greedy and put millions of different items on their website, and 99% of them stink.

No, because they're thieves counting on us to be stupid enough to want to save a couple bucks over actually maintaing our values and integrity.

a website should only have their very BEST stuff on the website, so every single one sells. they sould only have the BEST, and theory 11 has the BEST! i have a feling that ellusionist will end up like penguin magic, because lately, they have been bringing BS items to the store.

One man's garbage is another man's gold.

Rick Maue put out a manuscript of his opening effect. It's an 8-minute monologue with a 50/50 chance of working or not working. People have told him it's the worst thing they've ever sene. Max Maven hails it as brilliant.

Figure it out.

dude seriously, i downloaded ninja 1, crash course 1 and 2, inside magic 1 and 2, and all they teach are stupid simple stuff.

I've gotten all of my gigs on that "simple stupid stuff." Start performing.

ur paying 40 bucks for a dvd that all the tricks are LAME and u already know em.

I didn't know them when I bought them. I was the target market at that point. Do your homework.

Well I cannot confirm this, but several times I have heard that Ellusionist moderators and administrators are told to delete bad reviews to make their products look only amazing and nothing less.

If I have to hear that rumor one more time, what's left of my faith in the magicians' community will be dead.

Well why don't you find bad reviews on Theory 11? Because the only things they have released so far are amazing, but there are cons to everything and when stating those cons, I have never seen a post edited because of it.

Give me a break, there are multiple negative reviews here. Did you actually bother looking?

Am I the only one here who has ever heard of fact checking?

 

[copperfield 14]

. i remember lee asher saying that all u need is 3 tricks. master those and ur good to go. .

He said 3 keys in magic. Like coins, cards, levitation,etc

 

[Mitch.Conroy]

A Funny Side Note

Theory 11 artist aren't caked in makeup like Brad use to be in the Ninja series...



...although Wayne's eye-liner is getting pretty close.

I had to throw that in.

But seriously, I do think that Theory11 is a closely bound community of performers and enthusiasts who do thrive to progress our art to the next level.

It is an honor to be a member of this community, so thank you everyone!

Peace and Love,

Mitch.Conroy

 

[Bijlogg]

I do think that Theory11 is a closely bound community of performers and enthusiasts who do thrive to progress our art to the next level

You mean by doing all the same things that other sites are doing and selling effects that either the artists themselves or someone else has sold before?

Theory 11 is nice, but it's not significantly better than the next magic site.

Tom

 

[Phenomena]

the only big difference i can notice, and thats what makes this site 12782478x better than E will ever be
is the loose attitude of the high ranking people of the forums/site

they joke constantly, dont delete threads if you say "double lift is 2 cards as 1"

and people around here dont verbally abuse you for asking a question which to them, may be easy to answer.

As long as t11 stays open to people voicing their opinions and dont control the site like a communist iron fist, then it will ALWAYS be better than competitors.

Theres still a huge room for improvement, off topic section being 1 of them

this will separate t11 from competition even further and make it stand out, drawing more and more people in
thus creating more money....but meh

 

[Steerpike]

they joke constantly, dont delete threads if you say

So supporting exposure of utilities on publicly accessible forums is commendable?

and people around here dont verbally abuse you for asking a question which to them, may be easy to answer.

What forums have you been reading?

As long as t11 stays open to people voicing their opinions and dont control the site like a communist iron fist, then it will ALWAYS be better than competitors.

To be brutally honest, if you feel the need to make such an analogy, you have no argument and no point.

 

[Sergey]

they joke constantly, dont delete threads if you say "double lift is 2 cards as 1"

Yeah, that's kinda self explanatory anyway, but I think that they are a little too soft about exposure here, like sleights, I guess it's not that important, but sometimes I saw whole tricks exposed or sleights in tricks.

As long as t11 stays open to people voicing their opinions and dont control the site like a communist iron fist, then it will ALWAYS be better than competitors.

Good play on words.

 

[KeenanG]

Who cares?

Wait and see. Don't worry about it.

K.

Keenan

 

[Phenomena]

i could honistly care less about exposure on the site
its a magic site, people want help and advice from other members

how can you get help and advice if everything about what your trying to get help for, cannot be posted?

i can understand stuff like "well for tnr, you take a glove and yadda yadda" wont be allowed

but things such as the double lift, or very very basic moves that hopefully everyone here knows, being warned/deleted for these things is 1 of the major problems about ellusionist.

what frums i have been reading?
i p-osted at E for a long time, and when asking questions about various things, i was resorted with
"use the serach button you lazy this"

"post deleted because you mispelled 1 word"

etc etc
i finally had enough with the iron fist rule over thwere, i began to verbally abuse almost every mod that abused me

thus getting me perm banned

 

[Jack The Magician]

Guys,

I'm going to go ahead and close this thread per the request of numerous members. The discussion has gotten very heated-- let's keep all discussion respectful, courteous, and professional. Furthermore, while the forums are looser and relaxed, there are rules that need to be adhered to.

Let's take a step back, and get back to magic.

Thanks,
JTM