Quoted for so much truth it's unreal. He's got to be one of the best teachers in magic at the moment.
Ellusionist vs T11 Produced DVDs
- Thread starter JDENredden
- Start date
Quoted for so much truth it's unreal. He's got to be one of the best teachers in magic at the moment.
Seriously, Aaron's gonna be remembered as one of the greats in magic. Right up there with Dai Vernon And Erdnase.
But Erdnase is revered among magicians because of all the sleights he brought to the table. And yes, he was a magician most likely considering all the tricks in the back of his book.
But yeah, I get what you're saying. (Gosh! Aren't I grumpy today?
)Cheers!
In essence, it could come down to the teacher. Look at Wayne Houchin. Distortion is very similar to the DVDs he released at E; very detailed and descriptive. Same goes for Control. It's the same Wayne Houchin quality because that's how he wanted his DVDs produced. It might all depend on how the creators want their DVDs produced.
Then you have something like Exile. It's an AMAZING effect, but the teaching is rushed and not as detailed as it could be. I mean it's not even 20 minutes. In my opinion, if E would have released this, it would have been entirely different. Exile is similar to Digital Dissolve in this way. I'm not trying to down Dan White, but the teaching in both could have been a lot longer and more in depth. I think the major problem is that they lack depth.
Then compare Exile to TnR. Both Mathieu Bich effects, but TnR was taught in IMMENSE detail by Chris Kenner. TnR in my opinion is a better produced effect.
Pressure, I mean, it taught you everything you needed to know in a short time, but I just felt like something was missing. Lack of depth.
I think there's a problem when 1 on 1s start surpassing feature DVDs in terms of time. I mean, what makes Pressure better than the Diagonal Palm Shift? It's more expensive, and runs for less amount of time. Is it because pressure's more "awesome?" To me, pressure had no more production quality than a 1 on 1.
Now Dangerous. This is one of the best produced T11 product out there. You got it right on this one.
I have to side with E on the production quality of their products. Right now, the production quality T11 puts out with 1 on 1s is phenomenal. They're amazing. But as far as feature DVDs go, or "one trick DVDs" they lack the depth and character that E DVDs have. I mean you compare stigmata to Exile. Both AMAZING effects. But the Stigmata DVD tops Exile without a question.
In terms of quality effects, I like both companies for the effects they put out there. But in terms of of feature DVD production quality, I take E for the win.
-Kevin
p.s. by production quality I don't mean HD cameras and lighting etc. I mean the quality put into the teaching of the effects in the DVDs.
Then you have something like Exile. It's an AMAZING effect, but the teaching is rushed and not as detailed as it could be. I mean it's not even 20 minutes. In my opinion, if E would have released this, it would have been entirely different. Exile is similar to Digital Dissolve in this way. I'm not trying to down Dan White, but the teaching in both could have been a lot longer and more in depth. I think the major problem is that they lack depth.
Then compare Exile to TnR. Both Mathieu Bich effects, but TnR was taught in IMMENSE detail by Chris Kenner. TnR in my opinion is a better produced effect.
Pressure, I mean, it taught you everything you needed to know in a short time, but I just felt like something was missing. Lack of depth.
I think there's a problem when 1 on 1s start surpassing feature DVDs in terms of time. I mean, what makes Pressure better than the Diagonal Palm Shift? It's more expensive, and runs for less amount of time. Is it because pressure's more "awesome?" To me, pressure had no more production quality than a 1 on 1.
Now Dangerous. This is one of the best produced T11 product out there. You got it right on this one.
I have to side with E on the production quality of their products. Right now, the production quality T11 puts out with 1 on 1s is phenomenal. They're amazing. But as far as feature DVDs go, or "one trick DVDs" they lack the depth and character that E DVDs have. I mean you compare stigmata to Exile. Both AMAZING effects. But the Stigmata DVD tops Exile without a question.
In terms of quality effects, I like both companies for the effects they put out there. But in terms of of feature DVD production quality, I take E for the win.
-Kevin
p.s. by production quality I don't mean HD cameras and lighting etc. I mean the quality put into the teaching of the effects in the DVDs.
What's with this "We need more performances" attitude. To me, all I need to see is one live performance and I'll be happy, it shows the trick can be done in the real world and it shows you how the artist does the trick in the real world.
Ah.
But here's the thing.
Would you rather have a Biology proffessor who told you ventricular systole is when the ventricles contract; or a proffessor who explained why it did so, in every detail, and who really wants you to learn.
Gustav
But Erdnase is revered among magicians because of all the sleights he brought to the table. And yes, he was a magician most likely considering all the tricks in the back of his book.
But yeah, I get what you're saying. (Gosh! Aren't I grumpy today?
Cheers!
No he wasn't. He most likely only put those card tricks in the book because the publisher told him that a book simply on card sleights wouldn't sell too well. And at the time of the book. It pretty much barely sold well at all. It wasn't tell decades after he died, that it became a staple in card magic. For the most part from what I read is that Erdnase was a card cheat and wasn't that great of a person and was wanted for murder.
I think it depends on the situation. I know a lot of the LL videos have performances in the studio with the same exact audience every time. Which is fine because I know that it would be silly to see Bill Malone or Daryl try to walk around and perform street magic. And as well that there things that not even the pro's can control. Like what happens if you are filming and the wind picks up and screws up the sound? Or if people keep saying no? Or if cars keep driving by and honking? These are things that can and will screw up the progress of a video.
I do agree that it is nice to see different performances and also hear or see the guy explain why and how this works and etc.
Yeah, assuming that he was the person whatever you read said he was. I've read ten different tales about him, all of which were backed up with "hard evidence" (lol), and all of which were entirely different.
The point of my post - obviously - was that Aaron would be remembered as a great in magic. I don't know why copper whateverhisnameis felt it necessary to "clarify" (lol again) that Erdnase wasn't a magician.* Besides, if you wanna get super technical like that I never even said Erdnase was a magician. I just said that he was a great in magic; The implication being that he is remembered by us, not that he was a great magician.
Good grief.
*Besides that someone is about to pass him in post counts.
Praetoritevong already passed him. Anyway post count doesn't matter and erdnase will always be held highly by magicians, even if he was not.
Oh, but I don't think this is about the amount of performances. Quality over quantity anyone?
I think one good perfromance can easily make up for a couple of half-assed ones.
Again, shown? Or taught?
If the teacher is determined to have you learn, you can bet your bucks he'll prepare you for any situation - and even if he doesn't show you around the flower shop, you can very well resort to some common sense.
As much as we like to act it, we're not helpless puppies.
Gustav
From a fresh beginner
I am a fresh beginner to magic. I have so far bought a few products from both Ellusionist and Theory11. I am just learning about angles, sleights, some gimmicks, learning from just these DVD or downloads from these 2 sites.
What I find valuable is the explanation from Brad Christian about building up the effect, the surprises, the performance in general. Sure there are tough tricks, but he brought out the most crucial aspect of a performance - a show, the audience.
Of the few products I downloaded from T11 (Pressure, Ishkabibble sandwich, MacMillan Switch), I see great presentation and explanation, but fewer pointers about looking from the spectator side.
I feel that this aspect of the teaching material can be improved upon. I am sure many other seasoned magicians out there can figure this part out just by your experiences, just that beginners would need some help in this department.
And yes, more performance would be nice, too.
Regards.
I am a fresh beginner to magic. I have so far bought a few products from both Ellusionist and Theory11. I am just learning about angles, sleights, some gimmicks, learning from just these DVD or downloads from these 2 sites.
What I find valuable is the explanation from Brad Christian about building up the effect, the surprises, the performance in general. Sure there are tough tricks, but he brought out the most crucial aspect of a performance - a show, the audience.
Of the few products I downloaded from T11 (Pressure, Ishkabibble sandwich, MacMillan Switch), I see great presentation and explanation, but fewer pointers about looking from the spectator side.
I feel that this aspect of the teaching material can be improved upon. I am sure many other seasoned magicians out there can figure this part out just by your experiences, just that beginners would need some help in this department.
And yes, more performance would be nice, too.
Regards.