Email I got from Justin Miller...

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AllanLuu

Banned
Aug 31, 2007
545
1
32
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
I don't care what the reason was for them creating that image. I as well am a Christian and even if he was using his religion to sell his stuff, thats up to him, he had no sign saying, "BUY MY STUFF OR I WILL KILL YOU".

Atleast the magic shop is trieing to find the employee who did this.
 
Get over it guys. Stop making comments if you don't even know Justin Miller personally. Also, have any of your guys been to the magic shop at all?

A lot of us do know him personally, and we know he's a great guy.
What that magic shop did was rude, and uncalled for, why does it matter
if you've been to the shop? Justin really doesn't deserve what the shop did, and
they need to apologize. We don't need people like them in the magic
community.

Calvin Lauber
 
Ok here is the last word on this.
And frankly I am more than dissapointed in how some of you have responde with lightning quick jugdement.

Here are the e-mails I have received rom Phil the owner and his actions concerning this matter...plus my e-mail I sent to everyone.

UPDATE!!

It has been said by a famous man once" if the people are given knowledge they will act on that knowledge and do the right thing" (italics mine)

As you all know we have fought a very hurtful and offensive fight this past Sunday, and I am pleased to announce that victory has been reached!
From early this morning I have been on the phone with Phil the owner and he has aplogized profusely on the matter at hand.

I have included the last two attempts he has made to rectify this and I must say he has gone to great lengths to get this resolved..and why shouldn't he, after all what was done was disgusting, child-ish and wrong.
That is why when I found out who really put it up there I was not surprised..an intern from a local school (who no longer works there, supposedly because of things LIKE this).

I say this to you all so that you can make your own decision on weather or not to buy from Phil's shop now, as for me I will support him in his magical en devours and will continue to clear his name in this matter in all my dealings with this topic.

Now, on to what I feel is the meat of this wonderful ending.
Phil, while on the phone with me said this "I have been getting e-mail after e-mail and phone call after phone call from all of your fans..you have an amazing support system..and they have no problem letting me know it"

YOU guys are AMAZING!
I have the BEST fan base anyone could ever hope for. You are apart of my family and that makes us brothers, and friends.
Thank you, thank you, thank you you have touched Angie and my heart in a deep and profound way.

God bless you to all of you,

Justin N. Miller

P.S. MORGAN BONDETT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS!!
Here are the two e-mails I have been sent:




This image has been removed.

While I accept full responsibility for the actions of my employees the person who did this

NO LONGER Works for our company.

We are trying to contact this ex-employee and seek her co-operation in removing this image from her Photo-Bucket.

We apologize to Mr. Miller and his family for the misunderstanding about his intentions and for the unkind actions of one of our staff.

I personally responded incorrectly to Mr. Miller's demanding email this morning.

I responded to Mr. Miller, before I realized what had been done on our web site.

Sincerely,

Phil Cox

Kind of Magic



Hey Justin

We were able to get in touch with the person and the Photo-bucket photo has been removed – she wouldn’t talk to me ( I think she was afraid of what I was going to say ) – Wilber had to email her and get her to do it.

While this doesn’t make what happened right, please understand the efforts we went to correct the problem.

I am still receiving hate mail, I have tried to personally respond to each email.

All the best

Phil




THAT is the truth!

Justin N. Miller
 
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Sep 1, 2007
479
0
Philadelphia, PA
Pretty disappointing the way this all went down and the owner of the store is getting hate mail over this. An apology to Morgan would be in order as well, not sure why his name was ever mentioned in the first place.

Sorry man, I call it like I see it.

--Jim
 
Hey jim,
I said in a MASS e-mail that Morgan was not involved with this.
If that is not good enough for you I am sorry.

And shane,

Live my life bro, see how many e-mails I have to get to I do the best i can to get to all of them..and that was to my support system which you are not apart of that evidently.

Justin N. Miller
 
To all of you at T11 fans and not,

I understand that you all have your own ideas and thoughts and opinions about this situation that is what forums are for. I too have my own thoughts and opinions about this situation.

It is ok to post whatever you want about me on a public forum..go at it! But to advertise on a business web-site an image that is disgraceful and offensive and does not only attack my image but my faith, is nothing but wrong plain and simple. After seeing this image last night I was very upset and hurt by it as any other human being would be. I took the liberty of e-mailing my fan base because they are like family and I knew I could count on them.

Any pro. should be protected from this kind of slander, and if the magic community spoke up it would help the business owner to see that this kind of advertising when selling someones product is unacceptable.

ex. If I sold books on my site, and you wrote a book you were very proud of and gave it to me to sell, if i used my site to sell your book and above your title I had a picture of you with "Religious Phony, " next to it, how would that go over with you and I as a business owner and a proprietor of your products?

Would you not first contact friends and also books stores to ask what your right as an artist is? Would you ask for support to stop what is happening by like-minded people? Would you want those who support you to refuse buying from that site? I would assume yes to all of these. My profession is my business, and I have to protect it.

Justin N. Miller
 
Sep 3, 2007
2,562
0
Europe
But why does it need to go any further than that? If you had contacted them through E-Mail or on the telephone, and they had apologized, what would have been the problem? No, they shouldn't have done it in the first place, but if they apologized, what's the big deal? it doesn't seem very Christian-like to E-Mail your whole mailing list telling them to flood this poor guy with E-Mails and phone calls when obviously just contact with you was enough. Plus, it says the guy was fired, so I think you owe them an apology, since clearly they regretted the action, and you blew it way out of proportion. The fact is that it wasn't necessary to let everyone in the magic community know about it...
 
But why does it need to go any further than that? If you had contacted them through E-Mail or on the telephone, and they had apologized, what would have been the problem? No, they shouldn't have done it in the first place, but if they apologized, what's the big deal? it doesn't seem very Christian-like to E-Mail your whole mailing list telling them to flood this poor guy with E-Mails and phone calls when obviously just contact with you was enough. Plus, it says the guy was fired, so I think you owe them an apology, since clearly they regretted the action, and you blew it way out of proportion. The fact is that it wasn't necessary to let everyone in the magic community know about it...

I agree with that. Ok I would have contacted Phil and then if nothing was resolved, email my fan base, If i knew by just talking to Phil I wasn't getting anywhere. But really in the end Justin If you got the result you wanted in the end, At least there has been an agreement no matter how or what you did to get there. So I'm glad the dust has settled.


-Justin
 
Feb 17, 2008
3
0
Here's how it is, plain and simple: it shouldn't have happened, you're right. It was unprofessional. But this is what lawyers are for.

"Would you not first contact friends and also books stores to ask what your right as an artist is?"

Of course, but customers and fans are not your friends. Most are going to be biased to you and spread your word without posting the other side's story. This could have been dealt with privately and should have been. They removed the image/message, and fired the person responsible for it. Since you want to make this about religion, which it clearly wasn't about, then let's talk about this: you know how you hear Christians talking about how they don't think it's fair that one extremist should represent them as a whole? Is it fair to ruin this man's business and reputation because of something one of his employees did, threaten him, and encourage thousands of fans to flood him with e-mails and calls?

I took the liberty of e-mailing my fan base because they are like family and I knew I could count on them.

No, they're not like family. You don't know them, they don't know you. They're more like "people you knew would hang on your every word and do exactly as you wanted, support you without question, yadda yadda."

Any pro. should be protected from this kind of slander

Only the "pros" should be, eh?

, and if the magic community spoke up it would help the business owner to see that this kind of advertising when selling someones product is unacceptable.

The business owner apparently didn't even know, and you know that, so why continue to talk as if he himself did it? He dealt with it, did he not? He apologized even. And he's still getting hate mail and calls - why don't you send out another e-mail and tell your fans to back off and leave this poor guy alone now? "Defamation of character" -- isn't this sooooooorta kinda what you're doing to him now, only on a much larger scale? Hows abouts you post your own personal contact information so the people who disagree with you can get a hold of you in-person?

I can't believe 99% boyfriend's hard-earned cash has gone towards supporting you so you can have so much spare time to do stuff like this. :rolleyes:

You are apart of my family and that makes us brothers, and friends.

:eek: Is this for real? I ask you, my brotha, to admit you did wrong too, my brotha, and tell your otha brothas to leave the guy alone now.

And that might not mean anything to you, I understand, but this will, I will post this e--mail with your address to EVERY SINGLE MAGIC FORUM IN THE WORLD

You want to protect your reputation and da street cred. and then you talk like THAT? "EVERY SINGLE MAGIC FOUM IN DA WORLD" <--


But really in the end Justin If you got the result you wanted in the end, At least there has been an agreement no matter how or what you did to get there. So I'm glad the dust has settled.

Yes, so no matter how many people are hurt in the process, no matter what we do to get what we want, doesn't matter - 'cause we got what we wanted, amiright? Heck, Justin should have just held them at gunpoint - bet THAT would have worked even faster! Holy crap, are you kidding me?

And, as for the dust settling -- unfortunately, it hasn't. If Justin had kept this private, then yep, would have been settled. Unfortunately, Justin has tarnished the name of this particular shop by e-mailing god knows how many people, and having them all spread the word. These forum posts aren't going to disappear and neither are those e-mails - they can't be deleted and I really doubt Justin is going to e-mail them all to clear things up. In the end, Justin, you've hurt your own reputation more than you've hurt theirs, and more than that stupid picture ever would have hurt you. I've ordered from them before, want to know what my big friggin' order number was? 166 or something like that, WEEKS ago. Yeah, huge traffic. I'm sure a whole hell of a lot of people ever even saw that picture. But NOW they have, and it's all thanks to you. Personally, I've been there countless times, and didn't even know that section of the site existed -- in fact, I still don't even know to get there without going through Google images. lol

Peace out, brotha.


Edit -- Hmm... and since you think an individual's actions and beliefs should reflect that of the company's, perhaps we should all stop buying from Ellusionist and flood them with e-mails and phone calls about your behaviour? >.> You know, about how you've been defaming Kind of Magic? Because that is EXACTLY what you are doing, my friend.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Sep 1, 2007
281
2
New Zealand
Good man Justin, Bigotry shouldn't be accepted anywhere. If someone posted an image of a black magician with the words phoney n*gger over it. Everyone would be up in arms. Racism is bigotry. Just the same as slagging religion is also bigotry.

Don't stand for it

Justin...FTW
 
Sep 7, 2007
85
0
Pros in every profession get made fun of all the time. Its up to you to decide if you are going to be a big enough man to blow it off and laugh.
 
Sep 1, 2007
648
0
30
Canada
Wait, did Justin really say "Any pro should be protected from this kind of slander."

If so, I have lost all respect I ever had for the man.
 
Feb 17, 2008
3
0
Wait, did Justin really say "Any pro should be protected from this kind of slander."

If so, I have lost all respect I ever had for the man.

Yup, said it on page three, right here: http://forums.theory11.com/showpost.php?p=67514&postcount=28

But aren't we all family? Equals? :eek:

Good man Justin, Bigotry shouldn't be accepted anywhere. If someone posted an image of a black magician with the words phoney n*gger over it. Everyone would be up in arms. Racism is bigotry. Just the same as slagging religion is also bigotry.

Your statement withdrawn - apology accepted. :cool:

J/K... seriously, don't get all up in mah grill over this. It was a JOKE. DX
 
Feb 17, 2008
3
0
I wasn't replying to your post with my first one friend. Just making a general statement about my thoughts

I know, I was joking. :p

Z-man -- well, at least YOU got to appreciate my work of art before it was removed. Although, I wish whoever had edited it had removed the rest of that chunk of my comment because now it just looks stupid. :mad: Ah well. XD
 
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