Everyone Wants Us to Fail.

[worldwideme]

Hey guys! I’ve missed the deep intellectual side of theory11 lately. I’m trying to bring it back, but I’m going to need your help. I’m asking you guys to put your hearts into this thread and really take this idea to heart, and give a productive response.

When performing, I find that people want me to screw up they want me to find a card that isn't theirs. Too accidentally put a hole in my dollar bill when writing something on it. Or drop a sponge ball. Or drop a coin.

It’s frustrating to me, that sometimes my spectators get more joy out of my performances when I screw up. And less when i do well.

It bothers me to no end, and I keep thinking that, maybe it’s just a lack of presentational skill on my part. Or maybe I just suck at magic and I should give up, because people can't enjoy what I work for, they only enjoy when what I work for, doesn’t work.

That’s disheartening to me. I’m sure it is for others as well. So here is where you come in,

Share your stories; tell us about times when you felt like the whole world wanted you to fail.

Share your stories on how you got over this feeling of a lack of support.
I have gotten over this feeling recently, and I plan to share my story at some point, but not in the OP.

So have at it. I’m counting on you guys!

 

[RDChopper]

Jus a quick note, it's not them, have you considered that maybe it is you?

Could you share with us the way you present your magic to people? Because maybe there is where the problem lies.

I'll be sincere, it's really rare when somebody it's trying to mess up with me and I think I know why:

They are genuily interested in what I am doing or what I am telling them, people can only think one thought at once, if they are thinking about the interesting things or the pieces of strange that I'm sharing with them, there is no room in their head to heckle me.

 

[SKSleighofHand]

Well, let me think. I think the reason why people want me to mess up or other magicians is because they are jealous. They are jealous of our skills that we can do and others cannot do.

 

[worldwideme]

Jus a quick note, it's not them, have you considered that maybe it is you?

Could you share with us the way you present your magic to people? Because maybe there is where the problem lies.

I'll be sincere, it's really rare when somebody it's trying to mess up with me and I think I know why:

They are genuily interested in what I am doing or what I am telling them, people can only think one thought at once, if they are thinking about the interesting things or the pieces of strange that I'm sharing with them, there is no room in their head to heckle me.

i'm not talking about hecklers here, i'm talking more about the general public enjoying it when a magician screws up.

 

[RDChopper]

i'm not talking about hecklers here, i'm talking more about the general public enjoying it when a magician screws up.

It was an example, but my point still stands. I don't think that the general public "enjoy" magic in that way.

Well, let me think. I think the reason why people want me to mess up or other magicians is because they are jealous. They are jealous of our skills that we can do and others cannot do.

And yet it is our responsability, if they are fealing jealous is our fault, because we are presenting magic in a way that makes them feel that way.

 

[E/caulfield]

that's both the challenge and the thrill of what we do. of course people want us to fail, our entire goal is to prove them wrong. whatever they believed is or isn't possible, *snap* we just did it. now, of course this isn't our goal, in its most blatant form, but we are "offending the senses", its what we do. and someone claiming to be able to do these things and metaphorically falling on their ass (or literally if you suck at levitating) is funny. laughing at people screwing up is human nature (jersey shore came to mind).

Magic is a complex performing art, its about creating a moment with the spectator. now, i don't know you so im not commenting on your social skills but good presentation and the ability to connect with people is crucial to creating said moment. and if the connection cant be made, walls are going to stay up and people are going to want to see them fail. its when the wall is broken that things become a bit more intimate and they truly want to see something amazing and will allow themselves to believe, therefore - moment made.

the people that refuse to break the wall, regardless, are the hecklers/skeptics. they want to see us fail, period. its for them that i save the tricks that cannot be explained, that can be examined, burned, scrutinized, and remain unsolved. they question everything and remain lost. its frustrating for some and for others it can break aforementioned wall and result in a fantastic reactions.

so the only thing to do is practice presentation. see what works and what doesn't, try new things, etc. i keep my performances in reality, so you don't cross that line between "thats unbelievable" and "seriously, thats stupidly ridiculous. " i come off as someone who can do unexplainable things but doesn't attribute them to magic or other such forces. i really offer no explanation, let them ponder it themselves.

also, avoid it all with constant practice. dont allow yourself to screw up. or if sh!t happens, which it can, have an out. it might diminish the effect slightly, but its a lot better than a flat out "fail".

im not sure if thats what you were looking for, but i did my best. good luck.

edit: haha i started this before there were any replies and i missed a bit.

 

[WitchDocIsIn]

First off, shadenfreude. Taking pleasure in other people's misfortune. It's an aspect of the human condition and it's not going away.

But it can be avoided. The easiest way I know of to avoid having someone want you to fail is to be their friend. No one wants their friends to fail publicly. It's one thing to mess up around a group of your friends, but it's a whole different matter to mess up in front of your friends and a group of 'other people.' Your friends will feel bad for you in that situation.

So, make every spectator your friend and they won't want you to fail. They'll want you to succeed, because in your success they get a little of the afterglow because they are your friend.

So on top of learning sleight of hand, and presentation skills, and audience management, we also have to learn how to develop rapport quickly and get people to like us.

 

[worldwideme]

Jus a quick note, it's not them, have you considered that maybe it is you?

Could you share with us the way you present your magic to people? Because maybe there is where the problem lies.

there is no problem anymore i fixed it (see end of OP)

I'll be sincere, it's really rare when somebody it's trying to mess up with me and I think I know why:

They are genuily interested in what I am doing or what I am telling them, people can only think one thought at once, if they are thinking about the interesting things or the pieces of strange that I'm sharing with them, there is no room in their head to heckle me.

this all seems like a heckler post.

It was an example, but my point still stands. I don't think that the general public "enjoy" magic in that way.

what point? i really am lost here RD, i'm not trying to be rude, just looking for a bit of clarity

 

[RDChopper]

When performing, I find that people want me to screw up they want me to find a card that isn't theirs. Too accidentally put a hole in my dollar bill when writing something on it. Or drop a sponge ball. Or drop a coin.

They are genuily interested in what I am doing or what I am telling them, people can only think one thought at once, if they are thinking about the interesting things or the pieces of strange that I'm sharing with them, there is no room in their head to heckle me.

Heckle, screw or mess up with your trick. I'm using the word "heckle" in that context.

 

[worldwideme]

Heckle, screw or mess up with your trick. I'm using the word "heckle" in that context.

thats not what i'm talking about. i'm not refering to a spectator doing anything but enjoying our failure.

 

[Robert//Livingston]

I've been performing for a while now and can genuinely say that I've never had a spectator hoping I fail.

Even when have an "accident" by not showing the right card, they don't act happy. The actually act more disappointed until I rub the card on my sleeve and make it into their selection.

As RDChopper has stated, we need to know more of your performance. Even more of your script that you use.

Magicians tend to turn their effects into challenges, where the spectator assumes the role of an opponent rather than a witness.

 

[CorbinB]

The stereotype for magic nowadays is a form of trickery. People think that you are trying to trick them, and so then they try to trick you. Present it as magic, not as trying to make fools of them.

 

[worldwideme]

i'm not asking for advice guys, sorry if you got that impression from my OP i'm looking for discussion on this topic. i used to be stuck in that rut, but no longer. this is not a "help me i need advice desperately" thread. its more of a discussion thread.

 

[RealityOne]

I have to agree with RD Chopper in that most people want the magician to succeed and if they don't there is something in the way you present your magic that turns them the other way.

Let me ask you (and others) to answer the following questions honestly:

1) Which best describes your approach to your audience:

A. I like to make my audience think I've just done an amazing trick
B. I like to impress my audience with my magic
C. I like to entertain my audience

2) Which reaction would you like most to get:

A. "How did you do that?"
B. "You are amazing"
C. Laughter and a smile

3) When you are building up an effect do you say:

A. "Watch this..."
B. "Now I'm going to...."
C. "Let's see if we can do something really amazing"

4) Your patter for most effects is:

A. The effect speaks for itself
B. I tell them what I'm going to do next
C. I tell them a story or talk about something I've read or seen

5) When interacting with the audience you usually

A. Just talk about your trick
B. Talk about your magic
C. Tell jokes or stories

For each "A" answer give yourself 1 point, for each "B" answer 3 points and for each "C" answer 5 points. Add up your points and see below:

5 to 10 Points - You are engaging in "challenge" magic which makes the audience focus solely on the effect. You give off the impression that you are doing a "trick" rather than magic. Your audience reacts because nobody likes to be tricked.

11 to 17 Points - You are engaging in "look at me" magic. The focus of your magic is to make you look good. The focus is on you and not your audience. The audience reacts with jealousy because you are making it seem like you are "superior" to them because you know magic.

18 to 25 Points - You are an "entertainer." Your focus is on using magic as a means for your audience to enjoy themselves. You try to get the audience involved in your magic through stories, jokes and through having them play a part. The audience reacts by being on your side and wanting you to succeed.

OK, so this isn't scientific, but it demonstrates my point. There are things you can do to make the audience want to be amazed and, as a result, get the audience rooting for you rather than against you.

 

[CorbinB]

i'm not asking for advice guys, sorry if you got that impression from my OP i'm looking for discussion on this topic. i used to be stuck in that rut, but no longer. this is not a "help me i need advice desperately" thread. its more of a discussion thread.

Ah so you want stories?

 

[worldwideme]

Ah so you want stories?

YES! and discussion on how to get past this, and such.

 

[worldwideme]

Let me ask you (and others) to answer the following questions honestly:

1) Which best describes your approach to your audience:

A. I like to make my audience think I've just done an amazing trick
B. I like to impress my audience with my magic
C. I like to entertain my audience

2) Which reaction would you like most to get:

A. "How did you do that?"
B. "You are amazing"
C. Laughter and a smile

3) When you are building up an effect do you say:

A. "Watch this..."
B. "Now I'm going to...."
C. "Let's see if we can do something really amazing"

4) Your patter for most effects is:

A. The effect speaks for itself
B. I tell them what I'm going to do next
C. I tell them a story or talk about something I've read or seen

5) When interacting with the audience you usually

A. Just talk about your trick
B. Talk about your magic
C. Tell jokes or stories

1.) c
2.)c
3.)something like c so i'll go with that. c
4.)b
5.)b or c



EDIT:

For each "A" answer give yourself 1 point, for each "B" answer 3 points and for each "C" answer 5 points. Add up your points and see below:

5 to 10 Points - You are engaging in "challenge" magic which makes the audience focus solely on the effect. You give off the impression that you are doing a "trick" rather than magic. Your audience reacts because nobody likes to be tricked.

11 to 17 Points - You are engaging in "look at me" magic. The focus of your magic is to make you look good. The focus is on you and not your audience. The audience reacts with jealousy because you are making it seem like you are "superior" to them because you know magic.

18 to 25 Points - You are an "entertainer." Your focus is on using magic as a means for your audience to enjoy themselves. You try to get the audience involved in your magic through stories, jokes and through having them play a part. The audience reacts by being on your side and wanting you to succeed.

OK, so this isn't scientific, but it demonstrates my point. There are things you can do to make the audience want to be amazed and, as a result, get the audience rooting for you rather than against you.

22 definetly not a science, i'm not that good. i need to make some performance videos so i can give people a better idea of me as a performer. ugh. i'll try tomorrow

 

[RDChopper]

this is not a "help me i need advice desperately" thread. its more of a discussion thread.

And we are discussing this "problem" you said you had.

It would help a lot to the thread if you explain the way in wich you performed (because Im believing that you changed it) so that we can see the flaws and try to fix it, in order to (as you say) fix those problems or locate them.

 

[RealityOne]

1.) c
2.)c
3.)something like c so i'll go with that. c
4.)b
5.)b or c

22 definetly not a science, i'm not that good. i need to make some performance videos so i can give people a better idea of me as a performer. ugh. i'll try tomorrow

I have to again agree with RD Chopper... For this thread to be useful we need more details about what your presentation was before and what you did to change. I suspect that nobody else is going to post their stories because either they don't have this problem or wouldn't admit it if they did because the don't want to take a credibility hit on the fourms.

 

[RDChopper]

Nevermind....