Hecklers

Jun 19, 2013
27
0
Hi,

I have had this on my mind for a very, very, very long time now. So I have to get this off my chest.

When it comes to hecklers/skeptical people in the crowd who are always figuring things out and trying to ruin it, I'm always wondering what to do in that situation.

I used to think that I had to look for a trick to buy that would fool the most intelligent spectator. If I did a trick that fooled them, it would shut them up. But now I'm starting to get a feeling that it's not the right thing to do.

This heckler/skeptical spectator thing has been bothering me, so I really would appreciate anything you guys have to say.

Thanks.
 
Nov 11, 2013
34
0
A book that I would recommend for stuff like this as well as overall performance is "Strong Magic" by Darwin Ortiz. It's good. :)
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,786
15
The thing to remember is that real hecklers aren't as common as you think. Most of them are just tough because they're being shown a puzzle to be solved, not a mystery to be enjoyed. In that case, you just have to get them more involved. One of the most common causes right off the bat is "say-do-see" presentation.

Real hecklers are just trying to steal the spotlight for whatever petty reason. There are plenty of ways to shut them down, but not all are appropriate all of the time. Insulting a heckler into submission for example generally works better at a comedy club or nightclub because the social atmosphere there is a bit different. The venue has implicitly given you license to give as good as you get.

You're right that there is no trick to solve this. Never has been. You just have to learn how best you adapt. Some people shoot back, some disarm, other ignore... The first thing to worry about is whether or not you're engaging enough to lead.
 
Jan 1, 2009
2,241
3
Back in Time
The first step is to take a look at what you are performing. If it's something that LOOKS like a puzzle. IE: I do this and that happens. Then you need to either change the presentation or throw it out. The 2nd thing is to do things that they can't "burn" you on. The 3rd thing is that you probably won't run into many REAL hecklers or tough cookies. But when you do, it's usually best to ignore them for the moment.
 
Dec 18, 2007
1,610
14
64
Northampton, MA - USA
Years ago when I was a lot more ballsy and still doing big Illusions I had a lady that was giving me a hard time that sat right at the stage side. . . she was drunk . . . when I produced my pet tiger I brought her over to meet this nice lady that was being obnoxious and allowed her to lay at the woman's feet for a few minutes while I did the next part of the act. . . fortunately I knew my kitty kat really well and knew she wouldn't hurt a fly but the lady didn't know this. . . then again, she didn't say a single word after I put Sheba back stage. . .

Now I don't expect anyone to try this, Sheba was an exceptional kitty that I'd raised from a cub. . . besides, I doubt that many of you have a spare tiger laying around anywhere. . . but the same can be done with a big snake. . . or even a really big man standing close by. . .

All joking aside, I don't take well to hecklers, especially when they're drunk. I will put them in their place but I try to be creative about it. Usually putting them into the act in some way such as Paper Ball Over the Head or even allowing them to be an Instant Stooge only to turn the tables on them. . .

I learned how to deal with this sort working real carnival side shows under canvass. I've known knife throwers that would plant one right at the tip of a guy's shoe and whip artists that snap the air directly over their head by inches. We simply didn't have time for the crap as it were.

So, as has been said, there is a plethora of ways to deal with it, you just need to be creative while likewise being wise as to when the time is right to use certain deterrents.
 

RealityOne

Elite Member
Nov 1, 2009
3,744
4,076
New Jersey
Let's start with some definitions. A heckler is someone who is intent on ruining your performance by doing things that draw attention to themselves and by doing so take the audience's attention off of you. A spectatator that guesses at methods or tries to figure things out isn't a heckler.

For a heckler, the issue is control. The best defense is to be is to be interesting, engaging and entertaining. A typical heckler won't even try to draw attention to themselves when they know they can win. In table hopping contexts, acknowlege the alpha male (it isn't hard to see who that is in a group) and perform for them. This placated their ego because you are placing them in control and giving them a stake in the outcome - they've agreed to let you perform so they have an interest everyone being entertained. In other situations, you need to control the social dynamic so that the audience will support you over the heckler (think of the audience telling the heckler to be quiet so they can see you perform). If you are performing in school, it is a losing battle because perceived social status will trump magical skill. That is, if the heckler has a higher perceived social status, then then the audience will side with them.

As for people who try to figure things out, there are two types. The first type thinks that is what magic is about - you perform, they try to guess. There may be a lot of causes for that including your presentation, TV shows exposing magic, Penn and Teller's Fool Us and other magician's performances. The second type, well that is their personalities - they are the engineers and scientists of the world who think that everything in life needs to be explained - they know there is a method and they need to come up with a hypothesis.

Fortunately, the solution is the same for both types of figure-outers. Presentation. Let me elaborate about say-do-see patter. That is where you say what you are going to do, you do it and tell the audience to see what happens. The focus is on what you are doing and what happens as a result. Is it any wonder that the audience focuses on what you are doing and what happens and then tries to figure out HOW what you are doing results in what happened? There is nothing else for them to focus on. If you just show them what happens, then the natural question is HOW was it done. Presentation needs to engage the audience on an intellectual, emotional and personal level. If they are engaged with what you are saying, the effect becomes intertwined with your presentation. So rather than the spectator thinking "I picked a card, put it in the deck and the magician pulled it out of his pocket" the spectator is thinking, "he was talking about how memories are as real as we want them to be and even though I put my card in the deck, he told me to try to remember that I put it in his pocket. Then, I pulled the card I remembered out of his shirt pocket."

The strong presentation forces them to focus on two things at once. Try watching a magic trick you havent seen before without any volume while listening to a random unrelated TED lecture without watching the video. Can you describe both the trick and the lecture in detail? I didn't think so. If you involve the spectator by giving them tasks to do it is even harder. Try watching the video, listening to the lecture and counting how many coins are in a handful of coins.

If you layer that presentation with strong effects, then you shouldn't have a problem. One idea is self working effects - get Scarne on Card Tricks or Card College Light. There is nothing to figure out. Another idea is to structure the routines in a way that leaves subtle hints that one method is the way only to dispell that method (see Tamariz's The Magic Way for a better explanation of this concept). Another idea is to structure the effect and presentation so that the spectator figures out the ending a moment before you are about to reveal it - it makes them want to see you succeed because then they are right in figuring out the plot. They will be telling people, "I figured out what was going to happen before he turned over the deck showing the cards all sorted by suit and in order" rather than "I figured out that he did ... to get the cards in order."

But large tigers work well too.
 
Jan 1, 2009
2,241
3
Back in Time
Years ago when I was a lot more ballsy and still doing big Illusions I had a lady that was giving me a hard time that sat right at the stage side. . . she was drunk . . . when I produced my pet tiger I brought her over to meet this nice lady that was being obnoxious and allowed her to lay at the woman's feet for a few minutes while I did the next part of the act. . . fortunately I knew my kitty kat really well and knew she wouldn't hurt a fly but the lady didn't know this. . . then again, she didn't say a single word after I put Sheba back stage. . .

Now I don't expect anyone to try this, Sheba was an exceptional kitty that I'd raised from a cub. . . besides, I doubt that many of you have a spare tiger laying around anywhere. . . but the same can be done with a big snake. . . or even a really big man standing close by. . .

All joking aside, I don't take well to hecklers, especially when they're drunk. I will put them in their place but I try to be creative about it. Usually putting them into the act in some way such as Paper Ball Over the Head or even allowing them to be an Instant Stooge only to turn the tables on them. . .

I learned how to deal with this sort working real carnival side shows under canvass. I've known knife throwers that would plant one right at the tip of a guy's shoe and whip artists that snap the air directly over their head by inches. We simply didn't have time for the crap as it were.

So, as has been said, there is a plethora of ways to deal with it, you just need to be creative while likewise being wise as to when the time is right to use certain deterrents.

A wolf Hybrid or a Rottweiler/Doberman/German Shepherd/Pitbull that is trained to look menacing would also do the trick as well.
 
Nov 20, 2013
169
5
Kudos!

Let's start with some definitions. A heckler is someone who is intent on ruining your performance by doing things that draw attention to themselves and by doing so take the audience's attention off of you. A spectatator that guesses at methods or tries to figure things out isn't a heckler.

For a heckler, the issue is control. The best defense is to be is to be interesting, engaging and entertaining. A typical heckler won't even try to draw attention to themselves when they know they can win. In table hopping contexts, acknowlege the alpha male (it isn't hard to see who that is in a group) and perform for them. This placated their ego because you are placing them in control and giving them a stake in the outcome - they've agreed to let you perform so they have an interest everyone being entertained. In other situations, you need to control the social dynamic so that the audience will support you over the heckler (think of the audience telling the heckler to be quiet so they can see you perform). If you are performing in school, it is a losing battle because perceived social status will trump magical skill. That is, if the heckler has a higher perceived social status, then then the audience will side with them.

As for people who try to figure things out, there are two types. The first type thinks that is what magic is about - you perform, they try to guess. There may be a lot of causes for that including your presentation, TV shows exposing magic, Penn and Teller's Fool Us and other magician's performances. The second type, well that is their personalities - they are the engineers and scientists of the world who think that everything in life needs to be explained - they know there is a method and they need to come up with a hypothesis.

Fortunately, the solution is the same for both types of figure-outers. Presentation. Let me elaborate about say-do-see patter. That is where you say what you are going to do, you do it and tell the audience to see what happens. The focus is on what you are doing and what happens as a result. Is it any wonder that the audience focuses on what you are doing and what happens and then tries to figure out HOW what you are doing results in what happened? There is nothing else for them to focus on. If you just show them what happens, then the natural question is HOW was it done. Presentation needs to engage the audience on an intellectual, emotional and personal level. If they are engaged with what you are saying, the effect becomes intertwined with your presentation. So rather than the spectator thinking "I picked a card, put it in the deck and the magician pulled it out of his pocket" the spectator is thinking, "he was talking about how memories are as real as we want them to be and even though I put my card in the deck, he told me to try to remember that I put it in his pocket. Then, I pulled the card I remembered out of his shirt pocket."

The strong presentation forces them to focus on two things at once. Try watching a magic trick you havent seen before without any volume while listening to a random unrelated TED lecture without watching the video. Can you describe both the trick and the lecture in detail? I didn't think so. If you involve the spectator by giving them tasks to do it is even harder. Try watching the video, listening to the lecture and counting how many coins are in a handful of coins.

If you layer that presentation with strong effects, then you shouldn't have a problem. One idea is self working effects - get Scarne on Card Tricks or Card College Light. There is nothing to figure out. Another idea is to structure the routines in a way that leaves subtle hints that one method is the way only to dispell that method (see Tamariz's The Magic Way for a better explanation of this concept). Another idea is to structure the effect and presentation so that the spectator figures out the ending a moment before you are about to reveal it - it makes them want to see you succeed because then they are right in figuring out the plot. They will be telling people, "I figured out what was going to happen before he turned over the deck showing the cards all sorted by suit and in order" rather than "I figured out that he did ... to get the cards in order."

But large tigers work well too.

Kudos to realityone. I quoted him.. because it's totally worth another read.
My two cents. If they like you, they like everything you do. They won't try and ruin your fun, or the groups. Or they just don't know the culture that is magic, and you should teach them for next time (respectfully). That is why young kids show all the magical secrets on youtube.. they don't know the culture. And they don't know the waves they create in the ocean of the community.
 
That is why young kids show all the magical secrets on youtube.. they don't know the culture. And they don't know the waves they create in the ocean of the community.

How about Penn & Teller? They expose magic.

How about Brad Christianson gambling routine on the Ninja series? Isn't that exposure?

How about Larry Jennings, Paul Harris, or Wayne Houchin doing Open Travelers/Invisible Palm ?
 

RealityOne

Elite Member
Nov 1, 2009
3,744
4,076
New Jersey
How about Penn & Teller? They expose magic.

How about Brad Christianson gambling routine on the Ninja series? Isn't that exposure?

How about Larry Jennings, Paul Harris, or Wayne Houchin doing Open Travelers/Invisible Palm ?

Those are different then the typical idiot on Youtube trying to get views by exposing the effect they just purchased. You know that. If you don't, there is nothing I can say to enlighten you. Let's stick to the topic of hecklers and skeptical spectators.
 
Jan 1, 2009
2,241
3
Back in Time
Larry Jennings, Paul Harris and Wayne Houchin doing The Invisible Palm is a completely different thing because if done right, you technically aren't exposing anything when you really think about it. You expose that you can palm a card, then you go and destroy that idea.

Penn and Tellers thing was also different for various reasons and so was Brad Christians. Idiots who expose things on youtube most likely cannot perform any of the things they are exposing on there. That is why they are exposing it.
 
Dec 18, 2007
1,610
14
64
Northampton, MA - USA
A wolf Hybrid or a Rottweiler/Doberman/German Shepherd/Pitbull that is trained to look menacing would also do the trick as well.

Wolf Hybrids are far more dangerous than a well fed pure wolf in that dogs will kill just for the joy of the hunt, wolves do not. They only kill for survival or defense. I know because one of the most amazing exotic critters I've ever owned was a 135 lb female wolf named Kahli-Ma who now works with the Nevada Wolf Rescue & Education Society as a teaching guide (I had to give her up as my MS progressed and I could no longer handle her). But yes, a wolf can make a strong impression on folks.
 
Jan 1, 2009
2,241
3
Back in Time
Wolf Hybrids are far more dangerous than a well fed pure wolf in that dogs will kill just for the joy of the hunt, wolves do not. They only kill for survival or defense. I know because one of the most amazing exotic critters I've ever owned was a 135 lb female wolf named Kahli-Ma who now works with the Nevada Wolf Rescue & Education Society as a teaching guide (I had to give her up as my MS progressed and I could no longer handle her). But yes, a wolf can make a strong impression on folks.

Or you could cheat and just get a dog that LOOKS like a wolf but is actually just a normal dog.
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,786
15
Wolf Hybrids are far more dangerous than a well fed pure wolf in that dogs will kill just for the joy of the hunt, wolves do not. They only kill for survival or defense. I know because one of the most amazing exotic critters I've ever owned was a 135 lb female wolf named Kahli-Ma who now works with the Nevada Wolf Rescue & Education Society as a teaching guide (I had to give her up as my MS progressed and I could no longer handle her). But yes, a wolf can make a strong impression on folks.

I'm reminded of the coyote-wolf hybrids that have been making trouble in the Midwest and Northeast as of late. Despite previous evidence, it now seems that wolves and coyotes are producing fertile hybrids. While that has evolutionary biologists geeking out in excitement, it is a bit troubling for everybody else since they combine the best survival skills of both species. In practical terms, this means that they possess the coyote's strong curiosity and lack of fear of humans with the wolf's belief that a fair fight means he and his pack outnumber the hell out of you.

They're damn cute little buggers. But they become a lot less cute when you realize there's about ten of them and they're not afraid of you.

On topic, my preferred way to deal with hecklers is to let them tie their own rope. I let them carry on while expressing only mild exasperation like I'm dealing with an unruly child. Sure enough, eventually their friends will shame them into shutting up.

Make no mistake, if the venue is appropriate I will deliver the occasional one-liner. "Dude, I have a microphone and you don't. I will win every time. Think of it like your high school graduation: you're not going anywhere." And I have a small bottled up demon in me waiting for the moment where some moron inevitably answers his cell phone during my show. At that point I'm not sure whether to stop the act and just bust his balls in front of the whole crowd until he hangs up or take the phone off of him and start talking to whoever is calling him.

Yes, I know, the Slav with a drinking problem has some anger issues. Best twist ending ever. However, my point is that you can occasionally bust out the snarky material, but you really need to be aware of the crowd and the venue. It's not to be attempted lightly and should only be leveled against those who are truly rude, disruptive and inappropriate. Always remember that insult comedy is very hard to do well without coming across as a mean-spirited douche. Just ask Daniel Tosh. I find the social aikido approach to be a lot safer in general.
 

WitchDocIsIn

Elite Member
Sep 13, 2008
5,879
2,945
I'm reminded of an interview with Shawn Farquhar. Apparently back nearer the beginning of his career he had a heckler in the crowd that he shut down with a harsh line. Something along the lines of, "Hey, keep it down, I could have been your father if that german shepherd hadn't beat me over the fence that night." If I recall correctly, that lead to this: http://canadasmagic.blogspot.com/2013/02/shawn-farquhar-on-news-in-1988.html

As Steerpike said - insult comedy is difficult to do well, easy to mess up entirely. You have to be careful with who you're insulting and how you do it.

Personally, I think heading the issue off at the pass is the best route. Get them on your side and understand how to treat the people who will become hecklers if not treated properly.
 
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