Hey, introduction and questions about real work

[TotalAstonishmentsCMC]

Hey guys! I've been reading posts on here every now and then and been a hidden member if you will. I've never really posted here, but since the Magic Cafe restricts Gmail accounts i had no idea where else to get help other than here.
I'm young but i have been doing magic for 8 years but only REALLY been doing magic for about 4. There's not a day that goes by where i don't have a deck of cards and Extreme Burn in my pocket. I perform to people i meet and to my friends every day. Don't let this draw you away from my posts but i am only sixteen (17 soon). I know how most teens on youtube and out in the world don't grasp the true concept of magic well. However, i Think i understand it better than most people my age. I know that your Tricks are not the magic, you as a person needs to create magic for your spectator. No trick can be as strong of an opener as you are. I'm no Di Vernon or even one of the little guys yet, but i continue to grow and learn every single day.

With that in mind I am desperate for help:

I have so many concerns and questions lately it's been eating me away. I've read posts both here and on the other forums about getting out there and performing. The more I've read the better i feel about being able to get a job as a strolling magician (until i read one by Jamie Grant). BUUUT, i'm only 16 and i know many of you will tell me i wont be able to get hired because of that. Is this truly the case? i perform constantly and make people laugh and i've seen people i don't even remember pull out a signed card or torn bill I've given to them and run up to me and say "Hey, your the guy who did that trick down at the fair where you (insert trick here). You gotta show my husband something!" ... Though, that wont count much for me getting a job.

I thought i was ready to do restaurants until i read Jamie D. Grant posting on here and answering questions and he said things like
-at first should focus strictly on volunteering and bartering
- I would never hire a teenager (which scares me)
- and send a contract ..... (I don't know how im gonna make one, it's terrifying)
- critique brutally and if your in doubt don't do it (others have told me "you wont know until you get out there, sometimes the best way to find out if your good enough at swimming is to move to the deep end"

and i respect Jamie's advice more than anyone because he is the highest recommended person to talk to about getting started but i've already told myself i was going to do magic as a summer job (to pay for gas, supplies, my GF, and for being able to go out and have money to actually do stuff) and i''ve already ordered business cards and it feels im already in to deep and i've told to many people to turn around on it ....... What should i do? and do you guys have any advice ? also, is a contract definitely a must?
Also, am i just being to critical and worrying to much ?
I have a few other questions, but those might fit well in another thread another time.

Sorry for the extensive post.
Thanks!
- Chris

P.S.
I'm located in Richmond, VA and i don't know any where to get help directly as far as magic help and Advice other than this forum (which is awesome!) do you guys know anyone willing to help or any places around here that focus on magic? I haven't found anything thus far.

 

[blackhat]

well, business and pleasure don't mix. while you may be the single handed best performer of all time, that'll mean jack when getting a gig. if you want to get paid, especially at a restaurants. its a business, and your an expense, nothing more. if you want to get hired, you have to tell them that you'll increase there bottom line, and then prove it. offer a night or two for free, and make it non committal. tell them they don't have to pay you a dime for the free days. they may jump for it, or not, but if they do (witch is high, as its free) they'll probably hire you.

as your 16 (as am I) you'll want to look professional, dress shirt and dark jeans are always good, not to formal, not casual, and a business card help. the reason people don't hire teens is because they ARE flaky, immature, and you cant trust them most of the time. show them that your not at all those things, and you'll have a better shot. oh. and shave that damn peach fuzz you've got!

and finally, the contract. in my experience, witch is limited, but form where your at, its not necessary. you'd only need to one if their not paying for your work, and you need to prove to court you deserve your pay. witch is bull, as you wont need to go there. if they wont pay you, don't work. besides, anyone who would do that wouldn't hire you in the first place. just have an agreement with management about payment.

as for payment, as your a teen, low ball the price. offer to work for tips and a meal, or 25$ and a meal. the food trade makes both people happy, as they will hire you, and foods is actually super cheap, so there out less (food is usually up-marked about 70%)

finally, just cast a wide ass net and hope you get some thing.
good luck man,
Taylor

 

[TotalAstonishmentsCMC]

well, business and pleasure don't mix. while you may be the single handed best performer of all time, that'll mean jack when getting a gig. if you want to get paid, especially at a restaurants. its a business, and your an expense, nothing more. if you want to get hired, you have to tell them that you'll increase there bottom line, and then prove it. offer a night or two for free, and make it non committal. tell them they don't have to pay you a dime for the free days. they may jump for it, or not, but if they do (witch is high, as its free) they'll probably hire you.

as your 16 (as am I) you'll want to look professional, dress shirt and dark jeans are always good, not to formal, not casual, and a business card help. the reason people don't hire teens is because they ARE flaky, immature, and you cant trust them most of the time. show them that your not at all those things, and you'll have a better shot. oh. and shave that damn peach fuzz you've got!

and finally, the contract. in my experience, witch is limited, but form where your at, its not necessary. you'd only need to one if their not paying for your work, and you need to prove to court you deserve your pay. witch is bull, as you wont need to go there. if they wont pay you, don't work. besides, anyone who would do that wouldn't hire you in the first place. just have an agreement with management about payment.

as for payment, as your a teen, low ball the price. offer to work for tips and a meal, or 25$ and a meal. the food trade makes both people happy, as they will hire you, and foods is actually super cheap, so there out less (food is usually up-marked about 70%)

finally, just cast a wide ass net and hope you get some thing.
good luck man,
Taylor

hey, thanks for the reply ! Just out of curiosity are you doing restaurant work ?

 

[WitchDocIsIn]

well, business and pleasure don't mix. while you may be the single handed best performer of all time, that'll mean jack when getting a gig.

Except in word of mouth advertising. Which is the best kind there is. You just have to know how to work with it.

I would shy away from assuming you'll get hired if you just give them a freebie. Never work for nothing - which is definitely different than working for free. In the very least get them to give you a free meal. Who wouldn't let someone provide free entertainment for absolutely no investment? Well, there's a lot of people who wouldn't do that but that's beside the point. If you come at them like the desperate teen you are, they will know you're a desperate teen and take advantage of you.

as your 16 (as am I) you'll want to look professional, dress shirt and dark jeans are always good, not to formal, not casual, and a business card help. the reason people don't hire teens is because they ARE flaky, immature, and you cant trust them most of the time. show them that your not at all those things, and you'll have a better shot. oh. and shave that damn peach fuzz you've got!

Jeans? Seriously? If it's a low-end restaurant, maybe. Slacks at the very least and shoes that are comfortable but not sneakers. You walk in there wearing jeans and you're going to look like every other slacker teen ager who doesn't want to put effort int his appearance.

if they wont pay you, don't work. besides, anyone who would do that wouldn't hire you in the first place. just have an agreement with management about payment.

If you're going to perform at a restaurant you're probably going to get paid after you've done your performance. There's no "don't work" option at that point because you've already worked. Without a contract, if they decide not to pay you, you are out of luck. Handshakes don't hold up in court. Further, if one restaurant knows they can get free entertainment out of you, they will probably be talking to other restaurant managers and such in the area (Trust me, people network like this all the time) and word will spread that you will do at least one night and let them not pay you. Unless you are phenomenal and instantly boost their bottom line - one night will be plenty. There's probably more people just like you who will do the same thing.

as for payment, as your a teen, low ball the price. offer to work for tips and a meal, or 25$ and a meal. the food trade makes both people happy, as they will hire you, and foods is actually super cheap, so there out less (food is usually up-marked about 70%)

If you low ball the price you risk not only getting stuck at that price range, but also making other professional performers in the area angry with you. Talk to other local guys and see what they charge. Judge from there what you should charge. You probably won't be able to charge the same because you don't have a reputation yet, but you can get there. Working for tips puts you at odds with the wait staff which is probably making less than $3/hour and survive on those tips. If the table tips you, they may not tip the server at all, and will most likely tip them less because they've already tipped at that meal. Regardless, unless you're careful to make sure the wait staff likes you they will probably feel resentful to you and that's just another issue you'll have to deal with. Trust me on this one: If the wait staff doesn't like you, you are sunk.

Personally I dislike the idea of a restaurant magician. I would rather just be able to enjoy my meal and my conversation without having someone intrude. But that's me. I would aim for the party market before a restaurant.

 

[krab]

Go talk to the local Ring. The local guys. They can tell you how the local market it. It also keeps you from stepping on toes.
Ring 180 - The Horace Bennett Ring
Richmond, Virginia
Contact: Amy Duck,
When: Meets 2nd Wednesday of each month at 7:00pm
Location: The Children's Museum of Richmond, 2626 West Broad Street, Richmond, VA 23220
Email: secretary@ibmring180.org
http://www.ibmring180.org

Next pick up The new Adam Wilber Download The Working Man http://www.ellusionist.com/the-working-man.html Get Jamie Grant's book http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/3753 and pick up More than Meets the Eye from Dan Harlan http://www.danharlanmagic.com/More-Than-Meets-The-Eye-MTMTE-Instant-Download.htm.

Go to the local Mens Wear House or where ever and pick up two nice shirts and three pairs of slacks. You need a light blue and a white button down shirt and a pair of black camel and navy slacks. Don't forget a tie. Something nice. Lately i have been going with a nice bowtie but I'm a nerd at hear and I thought they looked good on Alton Brown. This is the basics. If you can swing a suit get one but nothing that would make some women hide under a table if you walked into the room.

You can find some pretty basic performance contracts with a quick google search I have been using pretty much the same form but with different wording for the last 20 years. If you do get cards make sure your name, phone number, and email stand out. DO NOT use fans of cards or top hats or any of the other standard "magic" clip art. If you have a logo use it on there but do not let it dominate the card. Also make sure your cards mailers website all have the same feel to it. Don't go and have hot pink geo cities looking website a brown and green promo kit and black cards. It looks bad. Stick to one or two fonts. Make sure they are easy to read. No red on black. No yellow on blue. ect ect.

Make sure you have enough stuff to cover working in a place for two hours a night. Make sure you have something special for VIP clients. Something for little kids. Some for repeats. Do stuff other than cards. Before anyone jumps in because we hammer this point, Adam Wilber did a Q&A and ever he said learn stuff other than cards. Not once but like thee different times. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYZwMRti7cM

 

[rocket92]

Also, you may want to check this out.
http://divinemagicandnovelties.com/
It's a shop in richmond.

 

[RickEverhart]

PM me Total and I'd be happy to help you out by sending you my contract that I use and it will give you an idea or framework.

 

[WitchDocIsIn]

Go talk to the local Ring. The local guys. They can tell you how the local market it. It also keeps you from stepping on toes.
Ring 180 - The Horace Ben...

I wish I could "Like" this post without having to put up another post - But hey. Good information here.

 

[Philipp S.(4)]

Chris my friend,

to answer your question: Yes, you can and will be hired. You only get what your brave enough to ask for. Some tips and ressources here that helped me so far:

1. Jamie D. Grants book: "The Approach"
2. David Stones "Close Up Secrets" (right name of the book?)
3. The penguin live lecture by Oz Pearlman on Coporate Magic. You are confident that you are a good magician so this lecture will be worth its weight in gold.
4. I would prefer event agencies (as a start). Talk to them, send them an email. Many event agencies want to build up artists (to exploit them, at least thats what Im experiencing.) from a young age so they will stick to them. I applied 1 time and I got accepted which may be extraordanary luck. Many people told me to start voluntarily but thruth of the matter is you wont get so much performance experience. Over time sure but not in a short period of time. I could give you a lot of tips regarding how to introduce youself to the managers of a restaurant and so on but really read these 3 ressources. I will use this experience as long as I can and I will look for a better event agency in 1 year when I am moving. Atm I'm performing 3-6 times a month for 4 hours and I get 100$. So as you can see it is possible even for young people to get hired and I live in East Germany which is relatively poor if you compare it to Western Germany.

As time progresses you will get better and better and earn experience. But make sure to have from the start at least 2*3 sets of tricks. Not just cards but what you want.

I haven't talked to a magic circle before I got hired but it would definetily help.

You will have some starting problems as many people tend to not take you seriously at first. Your first impression is your best shot.
I tend to use Jon Allen's line "Are you a fun group?". Be ready to improvise a bit, to please people to stand up, to perform for groups (depending on the restaurant, maybe a marriage, etc.) 10-40 people so always have some parlour material (rope routine, ID, linking rings, ring-rope-routine, etc. with you.

It would be appropriate to wear a suit, shirt and tie.

My suggestion is that you go to every restaurant you want to perform in and then ask to see the manager for 5 mins. Explain what he would gain from you, NOT what makes you special, and just ask him to lend you 2 mins where you can perform your 1-2 best tricks. Someone will guaranteed hire you. And if not keep on trying. Never perform for free the only exception being your in a restaurant of a high status that doesn't need you but allows you to perform and to collect tips. For tips on such a type/kind of performing/payment read David Stones book.

If you get hired by an event agency they will make a contract and if you perform at a restaurant make sure to make a contract cuz people tend to ignore handshakes and look for their own advantage, especially when your so young.

I think you have the most important thing already accomplished, you're sure your a good magician. I don't know how good you are but I think your better than me because you doing magic for 4-8 years, I'm into magic for only 20 months

If you want to talk just add me on skype: philippsch4 and I'd be glad to help you.

I hope this post helped.

Cheers my friend

Philipp

 

[RickEverhart]

I will second the two book choices Phillip suggested as I have read both and they helped me tremendously. I highly recommend you purchasing both. Yes you are dropping over $100 on 2 books but they are worth it....I PROMISE!

The Approach by Jamie D. Grant
Close-up, The Real Secrets of Magic by David Stone

 

[TotalAstonishmentsCMC]

Wow!! This turned out great ... I'd love to use all those resources and contact those of you who offered. .... unfortunately there is a bad power outage here so I'm relying strictly on 3g right now :/ ... but thank you guys I hope this keeps coming so I have more to read when I can!... also I post another thread soon with some other questions about resturauntants them selves ... thanks again

 

[Mike.Hankins]

I don't want to offer repeat advice, so I will just quickly throw my 2 cents in for what worked for ME...

I started my first walk around gig at 17. I didn't just go in there and hand my business card. I became a "regular". I made sure it became the spot where my friends and I would go after football practice. I would always end up performing there for my friends, and eventually the wait staff got interested and in turn brought some managers over. This led to me branching away from my friends and going to random tables, as they were looking on as well. And THIS led to me landing a regular gig there.

At first I was working just on tips alone. Sometimes walking out with $0 and other times walking out with $60. While not a LOT of cash, it was still good enough for a kid who was still in high school. The best part, I had built a friendly rapport with a lot of the wait staff and management, so I ended up being tipped out almost every night I worked there.

Again, that's what worked for ME as a 17 year old kid. Everyone is different. But the great news is you seem to actually CARE. THAT is awesome.

There is a lot of great advice that was given here on this thread, and I stand by it all 100%.

I DO want to quickly touch on a word that really stands out to me: UNIQUE.

Follow me here...

Now, 3 out of 4 Close up magicians are in a restaurant looking to get hired for a gig. They each are dressed in slacks, a collared shirt and are wearing a tie. Each of them holds a deck of cards in their hand. Each of them are "funny". Each one of them, charming.

The 4th one, looks "different". He still holds a deck of cards. He still is "funny". Still, charming. But he's dressed in a costume. He has a character; a persona, that sets him a part from the other 3. All of the sudden, his actions and movements mean more to the spectators than the other three, because now, it seems as if the other 3 are "army ants".

What am I getting at? As you grow in this art, find out who your character is, and how YOU set yourself apart from other performers. Be different. Make who you are count. Don't follow the mold...create you own! While you study and learn magic, don't forget theater and improv. Learn to create a character, so when you grab your cards or coins, you transform.

Some might not agree with me on this. And that is fine. It's just what I feel isn't really addressed as much as it should be within this community. We have so many painters using the same canvas...

As my friend Chris Kenner said it best: "Magicians are the line dancers of magic." Everyone is doing the same thing...but only a few stand out and become something. Not saying you can't be something or somebody if you DO decide to do the "norm"...

I dunno...

Rant over.

 

[krab]

Follow me here...

Now, 3 out of 4 Close up magicians are in a restaurant looking to get hired for a gig. They each are dressed in slacks, a collared shirt and are wearing a tie. Each of them holds a deck of cards in their hand. Each of them are "funny". Each one of them, charming.

The 4th one, looks "different". He still holds a deck of cards. He still is "funny". Still, charming. But he's dressed in a costume. He has a character; a persona, that sets him a part from the other 3. All of the sudden, his actions and movements mean more to the spectators than the other three, because now, it seems as if the other 3 are "army ants".

What am I getting at? As you grow in this art, find out who your character is, and how YOU set yourself apart from other performers. Be different. Make who you are count. Don't follow the mold...create you own! While you study and learn magic, don't forget theater and improv. Learn to create a character, so when you grab your cards or coins, you transform.

Some might not agree with me on this. And that is fine. It's just what I feel isn't really addressed as much as it should be within this community. We have so many painters using the same canvas...

As my friend Chris Kenner said it best: "Magicians are the line dancers of magic." Everyone is doing the same thing...but only a few stand out and become something. Not saying you can't be something or somebody if you DO decide to do the "norm"...

I dunno...

Rant over.

That really depends on the type of gigs you want to get. I know the clients I have and the clients I go after could never hire a magician in a costume. I get gigs because I look like a professional not because i'm wearing a Hawaiian ****. The places i'm in will not even let you in the door with out a jacket and tie. So if you want to send out by wearing a "costume", be prepared to get turned down at more than a few places. What I hear when I'm working a room is WEll you don't look like a magician. People think magicians are either in tails or they are clowns.

Also want to stand out? Really stand apart from the other young magicians and older guys just getting into magic? GET RID OF THE CARDS!!!!! Not completely but learn other magic. I have seen stage magician who do the put the girl to sleep gag by asking her to pick a card. People roll their eyes at card tricks. Everyone know that guy at work who does the same thing with 21 cards. I use things other than cards. I only do three card things in my set total and those are story driven. Everything else is non-card. The Adam Wilber video I posted earlier talks about learning things other than cards. That alone will make you stand out more than anything.

 

[RickEverhart]

I see both Mike and Krab's point of view on attire and luckily I have been fortunate to have worked in costumes and also worked in suits. They both have their pros and cons. One thing you need to keep in mind when getting calls for theme gigs is pocket management and access to your props. I've worn some wizard costumes before, but was limited on how well I could work out of my pockets due to the costume restrictions. Also something to think about...if the costume requires gloves...could you still perform? Now, do I sometimes feel silly having to wear a costume at a theme event? Yes. Will I dress up as a clown. No way. I would much rather perform in my suit coat than a costume but I have been paid pretty darn well to work some theme events.

 

[krab]

I see both Mike and Krab's point of view on attire and luckily I have been fortunate to have worked in costumes and also worked in suits. They both have their pros and cons. One thing you need to keep in mind when getting calls for theme gigs is pocket management and access to your props. I've worn some wizard costumes before, but was limited on how well I could work out of my pockets due to the costume restrictions. Also something to think about...if the costume requires gloves...could you still perform? Now, do I sometimes feel silly having to wear a costume at a theme event? Yes. Will I dress up as a clown. No way. I would much rather perform in my suit coat than a costume but I have been paid pretty darn well to work some theme events.

Theme events are different. I have done those as well. I dressed as a wizard for a radio station called The Wizard. I have the robe built with the pockets. That is different than dressing down or dressing odd trying to stand out while trying to get into a restaurant unless you are going to a family place and you are a kids worker. You are not going to get a gig where the steak is $100 wearing jeans and a pimp hat.

 

[RickEverhart]

Right....I know what you mean. I have never performed in jeans in my life. Even the guys in my ring who perform regularly at restaurants wear suits all of the time.

 

[WitchDocIsIn]

Theme events are different. I have done those as well. I dressed as a wizard for a radio station called The Wizard. I have the robe built with the pockets. That is different than dressing down or dressing odd trying to stand out while trying to get into a restaurant unless you are going to a family place and you are a kids worker. You are not going to get a gig where the steak is $100 wearing jeans and a pimp hat.

Up next on America's Got Talent ........

 

[krab]

Up next on America's Got Talent ........

That was last season. Thought maybe "A Pimp Named Slickback," Like A Tribe Called Quest; you say the whole thing: "A Pimp Named Slickback" will do an ACR

 

[Mike.Hankins]

I don't mean a costume as in dress up like a wizard or a funny looking outfit.

I will name a few examples of what I am talking about:

Jeff McBride. Ever see HIM in a suit? No.
Dan Sperry...
Mac King...
Lance Burton.

Each one of those names have a COMPLETELY different look than the next. I am not saying dress up in a Kabuki outfit when strolling a restaurant. I am saying when you develop who your character is, you will find out what best suits you and who and what you are trying to portray.

What I AM trying to say is that the "look" of a "typical" magician now is changing from a top hot and coat tails, to "dress slacks and collared shirts". But if the CHARACTER you are portraying would seem to maybe wear a fedora, add that. If the character you are trying to portray would wear suspenders, wear that. Be different.

We just got done filming with Greg Wilson last night, and I watched him work groups of people with ONLY a deck of cards. He SLAYED it, with JUST a deck of cards.

So that brings up the idea of "stop doing card tricks" and "people think card tricks are lame"...I would love some statistical facts to prove this "theory". It's ridiculous.

Is it ok that Jason England and Darwin Ortiz are known for CARD magic? Would you tell them to stop doing card tricks? They make a LIVING doing only card magic.

People liked to be entertained. Simple as that. If you can entertain with a deck of cards, then entertain. If you can entertain with a toothpick, then entertain. Matches? Entertain. Coins? Same...

I agree it's good to mix things up and expand your knowledge to more than just card tricks. But to say that people think card tricks are lame without a solid source to back that up is silly.

To the original poster...

You do what works for YOU. Find who your character is. Develop it. Study books beyond magic...books on selling. Take theater and improv classes. Because ultimately its YOU they want to see. If they don't like YOU, then they won't care if you are only doing 2 or 3 card effects for your entire set.

 

[Mike.Hankins]

Yes you will. I have been booked at MANY high end seafood and steakhouses where bills exceed $200 on average wearing nice jeans, nice shoes, a nice tshirt and my "signature" hat kicked to one side.