How would you define magic?

Oct 26, 2013
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0
I was watching a magician called Yif perform some magic tricks. I heard they are fake, and some of them do seem fake. Here is one video which some of the effects seem fake to me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N--a2OuPLok

Some claim that he uses CGI, but I do not know any reliable sources that say it. I just heard it as a rumor.

Even if it is special effects, is it still considered magic? That also begs the question, what is magic? Would the YouTube videos of Yif performing be called magic? Some say it's fake magic others say it is not. From reading the comment section in the videos, those who accuse Yif of using editing software are called "haters." I think that Yif has caught the eye of many layman in magic, just like another Criss angel. But I do not know. I might be wrong.

Anyhow,I want your perspective on where we draw the line on fake magic or real magic.
 
It's simple really. If you're only audience for performing magic is the subscribers you have on your youtube channel then you are seriously missing the mark somewhere. If it can't be performed for a live audience either impromptu or in theater then it's not the kind of magic I think the industry would be generally interested in.

As a general rule I personally try to avoid producing magic videos that utilize heavy camera editing or other production tricks. If it's not an effect that I can perform without the aid of the camera I generally avoid doing it.

As for the haters that isn't anything specific to Yif. Generally anyone strongly or vocally opposed to an idea, person, concept, or what not are usually branded a "Hater". I think you are right about Yif catching laymen's eye. His magic is commercial enough to do so. I can see a lot of possible inspiration from Cyril in his performance style. He's got some skills, and it looks like he's got the backing of a good marketing team. I expect to hear more of him in the future.

As for Angel, say what you will about his social skills, or his magical talent, you can't deny that he is a marketing machine. You can either make money or you can make art. You can't do both.

I was watching a magician called Yif perform some magic tricks. I heard they are fake, and some of them do seem fake. Here is one video which some of the effects seem fake to me:

Some claim that he uses CGI, but I do not know any reliable sources that say it. I just heard it as a rumor.

Even if it is special effects, is it still considered magic? That also begs the question, what is magic? Would the YouTube videos of Yif performing be called magic? Some say it's fake magic others say it is not. From reading the comment section in the videos, those who accuse Yif of using editing software are called "haters." I think that Yif has caught the eye of many layman in magic, just like another Criss angel. But I do not know. I might be wrong.

Anyhow,I want your perspective on where we draw the line on fake magic or real magic.
 
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Dec 18, 2007
1,610
14
66
Northampton, MA - USA
Marketing is everything. . . CORRECTION: Wordage is Everything!

"Magic" can mean a lot of different things in that it has emotional connotations just as much as it has visual appeal; an orator can create Magic just as can a Mime or Comic. But these are examples that go a bit outside your parameters; YOUR QUESTION being more along the lines of "Do the fools that use CGI and Creative Editing deserve the right to call themselves "Magicians"? My opinion being "NO" when it comes to the idea of what a "Magician" is in the common vernacular. But likewise "YES" because of what they can create within the parameters of said medium; the guys at ILM and Skywalker Ranch really are "Magicians" with what they do. BUT, as we have established, they aren't "conjurers" or "manipulators" in the sense that we are -- prestidigitators that create a mind of physical mesmerism by way of dexterity, misdirection and material designs a.k.a. the "actor" that sports the mantel of a supposed wizard or other esoteric being.

An argument can be made on the fact that 99% of those that dabble in magic will never become a true "Magician" -- in my 40 years around the stage I can name fewer than six out of hundreds that I've met and seen work that are worthy of said title. Ironically, every kid that's learned a French Drop wants to don the banner and be known as such, even as a one trick pony. We mentally filter out the reality associated with the craft; how it takes 3-5 years of constant study and practice of the basics before one is actually ready to Learn & Develop actual Magic -- we must overcome that "need" to learn a new trick in order to learn how to present each effect in our arsenal in a way that leaves the public mesmerized and agasp. It is at this point that we discover that Magic is a religion in and of itself and we are obliged to simply learn all that we can and perfect all of it so that the casual enthusiast has something to look forward to thanks to our demonstration.

As one of my teachers point out years ago, Magic is one of those things that is akin to Perfection. . . it is an impossible destination but we are compelled to work towards it as a goal, remembering that once' we think we have reached said pinnacle, we have found the very flaw the robs us of knowing it.
 

WitchDocIsIn

Elite Member
Sep 13, 2008
5,900
2,951
I, personally, feel that anything that gives the desired audience a feeling of magic having happened is worth it and constitutes 'real' magic. While I prefer to focus my efforts on audiences which are in front of me and not through a TV screen, is it any less magical if the person on TV can create a sort of legend around themselves? That when this person shows up, amazing things happen? That's magical to me.

I don't care if it only works for certain audiences at certain times. That's fine. You build the presentation around that fact. That certain things need to be in place which will allow you to do this wondrous thing only at this time.

I think too many performers get hung up on the idea of being able to do all of their tricks whenever they perform. This is extremely limiting in my view.
 
While it is true that all magic, even camera tricks, has it's place in the craft my argument against use of such methods stems from trying to steer the young and inexperienced away from that road as it is really low hanging fruit. Cut your teeth on the stage first. Learn the ropes, then take the short cuts only after you know how to travel the long way around.
 
Dec 18, 2007
1,610
14
66
Northampton, MA - USA
While it is true that all magic, even camera tricks, has it's place in the craft my argument against use of such methods stems from trying to steer the young and inexperienced away from that road as it is really low hanging fruit. Cut your teeth on the stage first. Learn the ropes, then take the short cuts only after you know how to travel the long way around.

You Tube videos do not make one a "Magician" -- the "true" Magician can create the miraculous anytime, anywhere under most any set of circumstances -- we are ALWAYS prepared and that doesn't mean that we keep a deck of cards at our beckon call; it means that we have cultivated the skills associated with the craft first and foremost. In my youth that meant that the old timers were slapping us down every time we started talking about big illusions and wanting to become the next Copperfield or Siegfried & Roy in that such was the popular style of magic in that era. Today, thanks to a lack of proper mentoring relationships (due to the lack of hands-on and personable rapport that is physical vs. the virtual interactions of today), an instant gratification social mind-set and the techno-geek sub-culture, we have people conditioned to believe that You Tube, Vemo and other such sites are "it" -- our launching pad to greatness in that a very small handful of people have been "discovered" through said medium.

Do yourself a favor and look at the actual statistics when it comes to the number of people on those sites doing the same exact thing you are doing with these vehicles and the number of individuals that actually became or are becoming a commercial success; the magic world has two key players in that world and the music industry might have about a half dozen discoveries of note. . . not exactly proof of terrific success for the effort made, and when it comes to magic there is a reason, one that Criss Angel proved in spades -- TV Talents aren't real magicians these days; they rely too much on stooges, camera & editing techniques as well as special set-ups that can only be done from a very controlled perspective. Angel faced horrid reviews and negative press when he opened at the Luxor because he couldn't deliver the some level of impossibility he displayed on the tube.

Considering this and how much cash it took to spin said press, what makes anyone think that working towards a TV only audience makes you a "Magician"?

Magician's are and have been throughout history, the epitome of skill & grace -- someone that can take command of the elements and through the action of his/her fingers, create the fantastic with most any borrowed or random item found in their environment.

As I've said, in the past four + decades I've seen hundreds if not over 1,000 magicians perform and out of that fewer than half a dozen have ever come close to being the "real deal' for me. Norm Nielsen's Manipulation act being so elegant as to make me want to cry because of its perfection but I've seen that same majesty in the likes of Shamada, Johnny Thompson, the late Martin Nash and of course John Calvert, none of whom ever played solely for a video audience though they had significant time sharing their craft on all of the major networks and in some cases, a motion picture spot here and there.

I'm rambling at this point in that I really do feel that CGI and other technology-based cheats are not "Magic" as we would recognize such a thing to be. These are things that cannot be done live and without audience controls set into place, let alone a huge budget when it came to paying off stooges and accomplices. It's simply not practical in the real world; if you want to become known as a Magician then learn how to do magic and leave the video crap alone. . . and I mean no disrespect in saying that; video & film "magic" are honorable elements -- a kindred factor to what we do because they do deal with "Illusion" and general deception, BUT they aren't one in the same so why would we want to hurt our craft by relying on the greater lie?
 
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