Mentalism in Magic : When is the barrier met?

[Simon_Magic]

Hi guys,

The question is, when do we know we are entering the realms of mentalism?

Surely, a prediction effect is a mentalism effect, but if it is done predicting cards does that make it a card trick?

I personally have also found that, when performing mentalism as a piece of magic, the reactions haven't been as over the top as the magic.

What is the correct presentation of a piece of mentalism?

Is a floating bill/ haunted deck presented as using the mind to move it, or is it magic?

I love mentalism, and try often to perform it, but as i don't get the same results as the magic I've been putting it off for a bit, even though still buy mentalism things as it interests me.

I think the main question here (although please answer the others) is whether magicians can only perform magic, or can they do certain mentalism effects, and visa versa, when we should stop with the mentalism/magic, and what the presentation should be like?

Thanks,

Simon_Magic

 

[Mr.MadMan]

This is basically a roundup on what we talked about in the Weekend. See my Signature for some links.

Anyways ill try to anwser!

Surely, a prediction effect is a mentalism effect, but if it is done predicting cards does that make it a card trick?

Okay, this is where it gets confusing for most and from time to time confuses me.
There is a difference between mentalism card handling and magic card handling. A magician clearly states that cards are his or hers tool to make the effect work.

But, a mentalist states that he is going to read the spectators mind or influence them psychologically to get them to get the card. The effect happens in the spectator and in you, not in the cards. We bring the focus away from the real props and bring them into the props we want them to use to explain what we do.

So basically its the way the effect is performed, if you state you are a magician and make a prediction that is taken as a challenge to see where the i(the spectator) go wrong and pick the card he wants me to pick. Whereas a mentalist would say he uses psychology and NLP to influence the spectator into believing that thats the actual method.

So anwsering straight, if it is done the mentalists way it is not if it is done in the magicians way it is.

What is the correct presentation of a piece of mentalism?

Wrong question!

What is the best presentation for me, is the right one. The effects you display are corresponding with your persona, your character. There isnt a right way to display anything you have to make it work for you.

The fact that there are psychological "methods" and Spiritual "methods"(examples that i use, there are tons more) are just to help you set a theme. Its a theme which you build your presentation around, how you do it is on trial and error, finding what suits you.

Is a floating bill/ haunted deck presented as using the mind to move it, or is it magic?

You can do it both ways. Its what you think is suitable for you.
I put them into PK category but they are also considered Mental magic pieces.

The final question...

In my mind its rubbish to mix the two. And being two at a time is not good, if i were to say im an expert card technician and were to do a card prediction act and present it as mentalism and say im using psychological factors, i don´t care if you actually are doing it for real the people will still connect the two and say that ah he did something with his skills, that psychology thing was a mambojambo.

You can be both, but its hard work since you have to fully understand the points of both and be excellent at both. You have to fit your character for both and be absolutely the same in both. Tough!

And i answered the presentation part.

Mikk

 

[Chicken]

There is genuinely very little difference. It is how you Think about it that matters.

As a general guideline,. nothing "magical" happens in standard mentalism (spiritual stuff is another topic). When I say that I mean, its possible to explain it via luck. "He guessed my dog's middle name" while improbable, is still explainable via luck.

My thought of card disappeared and went to his pocket... is not explainable through luck...

 

[praetoritevong]

I think Mikk gave good responses above. I will simply add a few things, that I can't really be bothered expanding on right now since I have to go soon - but feel free to ask.

1. The exact line is very blurry. It would depend from effect to effect - but generally I would consider it a mindset, and a way of approaching performance - the biggest discriminator is the presentation. Generally, the emphasis of mentalism is on the power of the mind (this extends to things from PK to mind reading, psychology, hypnosis, aura reading, mystical, etc). Everything else is just coincidental.

2. There is none. It all depends on your performing persona. Every presentation is determined by your persona.

3. I would not perform magic during a mentalism routine. That's the most important thing for me. The only other thing I would add is, if I really want to perform magic, I will open with a magic effect, then set the cards aside, and then make it clear that we're no longer just doing mere magic. And continue with mentalism. At a gig, I would only perform mentalism, except perhaps if I had pre-show strolling work before a set stage gig.

 

[Mr.MadMan]

A good read!


Mikk.

 

[Mr.MadMan]

Back to the top with you!


Mikk

 

[RDChopper]

Back to the top with you!


Mikk

This is the third time I see this kind of bump....