theory11 — Magic Tricks & the World's Finest Playing Cards
Neuro-Linguistic Programming - NLP
- Thread starter Sorax
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I've never read those. How much do they differ from frogs into princes, also by Bandler and Grinder?
I think that if you are a begginer get Sleight of Mind by Ian Harling and Martin Nyrup. It takes all the info from Nlp that is important to magic and mentalism and gives you all the info for magic that way you dont have to read an nlp book and take out the info thsat is useful. The book tells you how to read peoples eyes and behaviour, how to understand what way your spectator thinks, how to do suggestion and more. This book is GREAT for begginers. If you want more detailed info just pm me. I also have more recommendations if you want but not as good as this one for a begginer.
What do you think of the book?
What do you think of the book?
NLP isn't what you think it is. It's not going to make you into something like Derren Brown. Seeing has how he mainly uses basic Mentalism techniques and just covers them up to make his audience feel smart by saying it's NLP or Psychology.
Tho he did spend a few years studying it and was a Hypnotist for awhile. Tho that's something that is completely different.
Tho he did spend a few years studying it and was a Hypnotist for awhile. Tho that's something that is completely different.
That was the point I was trying to make, that Derren's work is more rooted in 'magic' methods than that of psychology.
Mat, that was the point. Very clever D.
But yes - if you really want to start NLP seriously... Well, there are skeptics, and there are practitioners, so to make up your own mind, start with Bandler and Grinder - The Structure of Magic 1 & 2.
My advice for learning NLP is the same as with psychological forces - because of performers like Derren, most people have a grossly inadequate expectation/picture of what NLP actually is. So you have to understand what you're learning, before you can learn. Therefore, start with the basics. And avoid trying to be Derren. Derren doesn't use NLP - he just reads Annemann, and creates patter that fools magicians. If you want to be like Derren, just read PME, Jinx, and Corinda.
But yes - if you really want to start NLP seriously... Well, there are skeptics, and there are practitioners, so to make up your own mind, start with Bandler and Grinder - The Structure of Magic 1 & 2.
My advice for learning NLP is the same as with psychological forces - because of performers like Derren, most people have a grossly inadequate expectation/picture of what NLP actually is. So you have to understand what you're learning, before you can learn. Therefore, start with the basics. And avoid trying to be Derren. Derren doesn't use NLP - he just reads Annemann, and creates patter that fools magicians. If you want to be like Derren, just read PME, Jinx, and Corinda.
Oh I got the book JUST before penguin sold out. Just have a look aroundto try and find it. I will look around for you to.
No offense, but advising anyone to start studying NLP without studying the two guys who practically created NLP in its present form, is just mind-numbingly awful.
As someone who has studied NLP for years (mostly for self development), I can honestly say there is very little in that particular field of psychology that would prove useful to a magician and/or mentalist. I feel a lot of the guys in this community jump into Neuro-Linguistic Programming without knowing what they're getting themselves into... and, likewise, become dismayed when it's not what they hoped for.
That said, things like eye accessing cues, body language and tonality, mirroring, anchoring, and various other NLP techniques aid in building rapport - which would obviously be helpful to any performer, therapist, businessman, or sociable person in general.
If you're interested in seriously learning NLP to build a stronger and deeper connection with your audience during performance (i.e., purely to improve your social dynamics), Joseph O'Connor's Introducing NLP is a good starting point.
Note that it's not an easy road to follow - and one you'll likely give up on.
That said, things like eye accessing cues, body language and tonality, mirroring, anchoring, and various other NLP techniques aid in building rapport - which would obviously be helpful to any performer, therapist, businessman, or sociable person in general.
If you're interested in seriously learning NLP to build a stronger and deeper connection with your audience during performance (i.e., purely to improve your social dynamics), Joseph O'Connor's Introducing NLP is a good starting point.
Note that it's not an easy road to follow - and one you'll likely give up on.
I couldn't agree more.
Bingo, Jon. Well said. Rapport is a very undervalued and understudied aspect of magic and mentalism. Know what you're studying - NLP will not help you to influence people or suggest someone select the queen of diamonds. It's value in magic is rapport. If you get rapport, your performances will be good. If you don't, they'll fail. Simple as that.
You basically said everything I was trying to say, except better, so I'll leave it at that.
NLP for dummies was quite interesting, give that a go if you can find it, but start with stuff by Bandler & Co if you can. If you are looking for Derren Brown style effects i'm afraid that may take quite a bit more practice ^^
Of course Bandler is the #1 place to look, but don't forget about books like "Secrets of The Amazing Kreskin" where he utilizes leading and pacing as well as anchoring in various forms. Another good one is "Mind Control Language Patters" which can be found on amazon.
I didnt like nlp for dummies as I felt it became a chore to remove the useful stuff from a book mostly of stuff hat couldnt be applied to magic.
That is why I suggested Sleight of Mind. It takes all the useful stuff and shows you how to use it for magic and creating effects.
Again, Derren Brown doesn't use NLP or anything in his stuff. He just covers it up by saying he does, thus fooling his audience's and fooling Magicians. He does know a lot about the subject and just about everything else he talks about. But really, if you are going to say you used this or that. You better know what you are talking about.
If you really want to pull off what Derren brown does, I'd simply suggest you learn basic mentalism. Because there are a ton of Mentalism effects out there that do pretty much the same thing Derren Brown pulls off.
Derren does not directly say he uses NLP he mentions things that he looks for that are similar or the same as NLP. He also talks about an interest in it but talks about its effectiveness is quite limited.