New force?

Sep 1, 2007
1,529
1
32
San Francisco, CA
Hey guys,

So I was sitting here at my computer not 10 minutes ago, when I had the most amazing idea. Why not perform a riffle force without breaks!

I wasn't sure of the history of such a move, or if there was even such a move, so I decided to come over here.

My question is, have any of you ever heard of such a move? I want to pursue this idea further.

Thanks guys,

David
 
Aug 31, 2007
34
0
This,
at least in my opinion,
sounds like something by daniel Madison known as the
"Emotion Force",i believe.
altough its not the same as a rifle force (in terms of handling)
it looks almost the same, except for the fact that you pick up above the break
yours may be different, as it is hard to tell without knowwing the method,
but it sounds very similar
 
Sep 3, 2007
2,562
0
Europe
Sounds cool and all, but is it necessary? If you hold a break properly, nobody will see it, so it shouldn't matter if it's there or not! Good job using your creativity, though!
 
Jun 18, 2008
40
0
USA
Err, without a crimp or jog or break, you can't really keep track of where a card is, unless you train your eyes to spot X number of cards.
 
Sep 1, 2007
1,529
1
32
San Francisco, CA
Sounds cool and all, but is it necessary? If you hold a break properly, nobody will see it, so it shouldn't matter if it's there or not! Good job using your creativity, though!

Well, it's not necessary for laymen, as they can't tell the difference. It could be a magician fooler, though. Use a normal riffle force a few times, and then break out the one without breaks.

I think I would use it because it lets you hold the cards more freely. With the handling I'm developing, you can completely open your hand, show the deck, etc. At least that's what I'm aiming for. I think I'll look further into it, as well as check out this Emotion Force. If it picks up above the break as you said, it can't be the same as mine. There are no breaks, and you don't pick up above anything.

David
 
I think I would use it because it lets you hold the cards more freely. With the handling I'm developing, you can completely open your hand, show the deck, etc. At least that's what I'm aiming for. I think I'll look further into it, as well as check out this Emotion Force. If it picks up above the break as you said, it can't be the same as mine. There are no breaks, and you don't pick up above anything.

David
Mr.Madison's Emotion Force is far from being an original sleight. To prevent myself from getting accused of anything, here is a history lesson.

The concept of replacing a gimmicked card ( can't expose it, but its fairly known ) with a kind of location ( the one used in "Emotion force") goes back to Ken Kreznel, as published in a routine called "One Hand, Ma!", in Richard Kaufman's first book CardMagic. After publishing the concept, every magician adpoted it to the riffle force and variations (i.e forcing a thought of card ). So magicians independantly did it that no one claimed the idea. To prove this more, ask any knowledgble cardman about "doing a riffle force with no break", he'll instantly say "use *****", which is excatly whats Mr.Madison is taking credit for.

The force's idea is published in one of Chris Korn's DVDs as a thought of card force, as well as Peter Duffie's ebook England's Up Close again as a thought of card force, and as I mentioned above, its fairly known among knowledgble cardmen.

There are versions that don't use breaks or pick ups at certain points of the deck, Gary Ouellet has one which I forgot its name, its in a Trapdoor magazine issue, which can only be found on ebay these days.

Anyways,

Good luck with the workings of the force DavidMisner :)

Cheers,
 
I purchased Daniel Madison's notes One and Two a long time ago before Dangerous was heard of. Off topic but i must say that was when i said "Oh my god this guy Daniel Madison is a character because of how he worded things and words he used just made me crack up and lets just say he has very little patience for people who dont know proper terminology.
But anyway he has a riffle force with no breaks in the beginning (Now he states he doesnt know for sure if he is the creator of it and knowing how old magic is he probably is not but i do not know of any other artist who uses it), its pretty good actually. Hard to pick up from reading awhile ago but its not that bad now and i use it alot.
I believe it was taught on his PDF Two, not one. But im not sure, it was a long time ago.
Hope this was helpful
 
Aug 31, 2007
34
0
actually, its on page 8 of his lecture notes one
and david, if yours is as clean as you say, (ie, deck is shown from every angle during the force,
and nothing is held )
then it can't use the same method as the above force.

good luck with your force,
 

The Dark Angel

forum moderator / t11
Sep 1, 2007
2,003
18
32
Denver, Colorado
Well, it's not necessary for laymen, as they can't tell the difference. It could be a magician fooler, though. Use a normal riffle force a few times, and then break out the one without breaks.

I think I would use it because it lets you hold the cards more freely. With the handling I'm developing, you can completely open your hand, show the deck, etc. At least that's what I'm aiming for. I think I'll look further into it, as well as check out this Emotion Force. If it picks up above the break as you said, it can't be the same as mine. There are no breaks, and you don't pick up above anything.

David

Sounds pretty promising, I hope that you keep us updated on this project of yours.

May the force be with you,
TDA
 
Sep 1, 2007
1,529
1
32
San Francisco, CA
Yeah, all I need is another riffle force. Sorry to be blunt but the one I use works just fine.

Peace.

I didn't say I was going to teach you, let alone release it. This really isn't about you. I'm just trying to research an idea I have.

As for the Emotion Force, I had a friend who owns One compare the methods, and while the basic idea is similar, he uses it in a completely different way. Somebody thought that you view the deck from all angles during the force, but I didn't say that. Granted, it's extremely angle proof, but it does have limitations. What I'm doing is developing subtleties that will allow you to show the deck and make it appear as if you have absolutely no control over the card you want to force.

I'll keep you guys updates as I develop the force more.

David
 
Oct 28, 2007
453
0
Sydney Australia
The emotion force requires practice to get right, but once you have mastered it, its the perfect substitute for a riffle.

Its always to have a number of different forces in your arsenal and also forces that matches the tricks you are going to do.

If I was to perform a sleight of hand trick and Im required to force a card then riffle and emotion force is a sure hit. However for effects where you want your spectators to think there is no force whatsoever, or even performing for magicians. I either use the classic or the ribbon spread force, because its so damn convincing.
 
Jun 10, 2008
921
1
Newcastle upon Tyne
I, personally, know of two riffle force's execyted without breaks, both very bold but very effective. if you're sleight basically revolves around a bold packet switch, it is probably not original. sorry to be vague, but exposure and all that.

C!
 
Sep 1, 2007
1,529
1
32
San Francisco, CA
I, personally, know of two riffle force's execyted without breaks, both very bold but very effective. if you're sleight basically revolves around a bold packet switch, it is probably not original. sorry to be vague, but exposure and all that.

C!

A riffle force with a packet switch? Kind of kills the point...

Nah, mine doesn't use a packet switch. It's not new, all I did was refine it and add subtleties.

David
 
Sep 1, 2007
378
0
UK
I didn't say I was going to teach you, let alone release it. This really isn't about you. I'm just trying to research an idea I have.

As for the Emotion Force, I had a friend who owns One compare the methods, and while the basic idea is similar, he uses it in a completely different way. Somebody thought that you view the deck from all angles during the force, but I didn't say that. Granted, it's extremely angle proof, but it does have limitations. What I'm doing is developing subtleties that will allow you to show the deck and make it appear as if you have absolutely no control over the card you want to force.

I'll keep you guys updates as I develop the force more.

David

xP

I think you can forgive Sir Fans' comment. XD

Huruey
 
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