No talking in flourishing DVDs?

[James Wise Magic]

Now I'm a person that is able to watch a flourishing dvd that doesn't have them talking through the flourish but rather just play it in slow motion, and I can learn from that.

But why aren't all flourishing dvds like Genesis where it talks you through each flourish, it just makes it easier to follow along. Sure I can learn without it, but of course it takes longer and is adding unnecessary difficulty.

I mean it's not like they teach magic in slow motion, why do the same for flourishes?

 

[Robert//Livingston]

Time = Money.

Also, Genesis is more of a beginner DVD so I feel Andrei wanted to really make sure you learned all of the fine points of each move.

Harder stuff pretty much assumes you know the basic moves. I like being able to hear what they're doing, more than having to rewind every 5 seconds to break it down.

 

[James Wise Magic]

Time = Money.

Also, Genesis is more of a beginner DVD so I feel Andrei wanted to really make sure you learned all of the fine points of each move.

Harder stuff pretty much assumes you know the basic moves. I like being able to hear what they're doing, more than having to rewind every 5 seconds to break it down.

Understandable. But I don't know. Theory11 and even other websites and cardistry artists pride themselves on releasing the best material with expert teachings, it's not really expert teachings. If it were me, I'd pride myself too much. No matter how difficult the flourish may be, I would want to talk through it and make sure that everyone understands it no matter what skill level they are and if I couldn't because of money issues, I wouldn't sell it in the first place.

 

[Bill Charlton]

I find that flourishing DVDs such as The System and The Trilogy are great learning tools but it gets boring quickly partly because the teacher doesen't speak.If Andrei can do it , why can't D&D ? Just my half a cent.

 

[James Wise Magic]

I find that flourishing DVDs such as The System and The Trilogy are great learning tools but it gets boring quickly partly because the teacher doesen't speak.If Andrei can do it , why can't D&D ? Just my half a cent.

I agree 120%!

 

[Sk8r_St3v3]

Maybe all factors mention are part of this solution, but i still think that The Trilogy has no audio guidance due to the intentions of Dan and Dave. In the little booklet that comes with The trilogy, they mention how they want it to be something that gives you the foundations and encourages you to study and improve upon it by yourself. This way people have to put more effort in, and as well as the extra satisfaction gained for success, they attain a much better insight into their control and dexterity with the cards because they had to figure out the things that werent so clear.

I definitely do not think that audio guidance is bad in flourishing dvds, Dangerous is fantastic for DM's comments on tricky parts of flourishes and how to improve your style, but in some cases, such as The trilogy, i think it is more suited to learn off studying what you can see, and not being spoon fed everything.

 

[moviesandmagic3]

I don't mind not having speaking because text pop-ups are usually present and very helpful. It becomes more difficult without text pop-up, but that's assuming you have some experience already.

 

[magicman2]

Maybe all factors mention are part of this solution, but i still think that The Trilogy has no audio guidance due to the intentions of Dan and Dave. In the little booklet that comes with The trilogy, they mention how they want it to be something that gives you the foundations and encourages you to study and improve upon it by yourself. This way people have to put more effort in, and as well as the extra satisfaction gained for success, they attain a much better insight into their control and dexterity with the cards because they had to figure out the things that werent so clear.

I definitely do not think that audio guidance is bad in flourishing dvds, Dangerous is fantastic for DM's comments on tricky parts of flourishes and how to improve your style, but in some cases, such as The trilogy, i think it is more suited to learn off studying what you can see, and not being spoon fed everything.

I agree with you 100%. I had trouble at first with silent videos, and was very surprised that there was no sound. But you do learn a lot better with no sound. It makes you have to really study their hand positions and know what they are exactly doing yourself rather than them telling you.

 

[James Wise Magic]

Maybe all factors mention are part of this solution, but i still think that The Trilogy has no audio guidance due to the intentions of Dan and Dave. In the little booklet that comes with The trilogy, they mention how they want it to be something that gives you the foundations and encourages you to study and improve upon it by yourself. This way people have to put more effort in, and as well as the extra satisfaction gained for success, they attain a much better insight into their control and dexterity with the cards because they had to figure out the things that werent so clear.

I definitely do not think that audio guidance is bad in flourishing dvds, Dangerous is fantastic for DM's comments on tricky parts of flourishes and how to improve your style, but in some cases, such as The trilogy, i think it is more suited to learn off studying what you can see, and not being spoon fed everything.

As I do see your point, but with that in thought you might as well make magic the same way too. I mean we're always saying we're trying to advance magic, then just do it in slow motion like flourishes so you can figure out all the stages yourself and put more effort into it.....

idk... I'd rather have them talk through it because while I was perfecting my Jackson Five I have difficulty on 1 part in particular and it turns out I was doing it wrong but I thought that's how it was done and I was practicing the wrong way for a little over a year until one of my magician friends told me I was doing it wrong. If they had talked through it then I would have known earlier and not be practicing the wrong thing.

 

[theCardmechanic]

I have found that it is not only beginner videos that have explanations. Daniel Madison's Dangerous, has complex advanced XCM, and spoken explanations.

 

[praetoritevong]

I agree with you 100%. I had trouble at first with silent videos, and was very surprised that there was no sound. But you do learn a lot better with no sound. It makes you have to really study their hand positions and know what they are exactly doing yourself rather than them telling you.

Is this what we really want to do, though? What does making you study flourishes harder accomplish?

In magic, I can understand - it is an argument often used in favour of books. I agree that, in making you concentrate, and allowing you to raise your own interpretation of what is being described, it can have positive effects on your magic by decreasing your likelihood of becoming a copycat, encouraging you to think for yourself, and developing something that works for you. There are many who complain that they cannot learn from books - and I think to myself, yes, well, that is the point. It actually forces you to think - and if you can't do that, well, avoiding it won't help! And if it's something one finds difficult, in most cases, there's a pretty strong case there for you to start!

However, I'm not sure that the same is valid in learning flourishes. When one learns magic, they learn how to perform, how to present, etc., as well as the sleights themselves. When one learns flourishing from a DVD, surely the aim is to learn the flourish? I have yet to see anyone contend that they watched the Trilogy for practical performance tips, or anything else, for the matter, except the sole purpose of learning that darn flourish.

So if learning the flourish is the only consideration - isn't making that learning as easy as possible the only goal? What does making someone pay attention accomplish? If telling someone will make it easier, rather than forcing them to pay attention, why not?

 

[James Wise Magic]

Is this what we really want to do, though? What does making you study flourishes harder accomplish?

In magic, I can understand - it is an argument often used in favour of books. I agree that, in making you concentrate, and allowing you to raise your own interpretation of what is being described, it can have positive effects on your magic by decreasing your likelihood of becoming a copycat, encouraging you to think for yourself, and developing something that works for you. There are many who complain that they cannot learn from books - and I think to myself, yes, well, that is the point. It actually forces you to think - and if you can't do that, well, avoiding it won't help! And if it's something one finds difficult, in most cases, there's a pretty strong case there for you to start!

However, I'm not sure that the same is valid in learning flourishes. When one learns magic, they learn how to perform, how to present, etc., as well as the sleights themselves. When one learns flourishing from a DVD, surely the aim is to learn the flourish? I have yet to see anyone contend that they watched the Trilogy for practical performance tips, or anything else, for the matter, except the sole purpose of learning that darn flourish.

So if learning the flourish is the only consideration - isn't making that learning as easy as possible the only goal? What does making someone pay attention accomplish? If telling someone will make it easier, rather than forcing them to pay attention, why not?

Dude, YES!!!! I couldn't have worded it better myself!!!