ok - this abuse needs to end.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Austin Fields, Jul 10, 2011.

  1. Aw, I was going to bring this up.

    You think professional musicians have an issue with people learning their art just to pick up?
    You think that idiots with guitars whose repertoire consists of an entire 4 chords cheapens music?

    Music still persists as an artform despite the mass bastardization of it that has been happening for god knows how long. People still appreciate music. People still enjoy music. People still are entertained by it.


    Not saying that magic = music, or that you can draw conclusions about one from the other, but I hope you understand my point.
     
  2. Good idea. Especially if you are the kind of guy who gets all twitterpated when just about everyone jumps on the board agreeing with your basic premise but, because they don't agree with every nitpicky nuance of your post, you feel justified getting argumentative.
    You must be a real magician since you seemed to "magically" piss away any moral high ground you may have had with that passive aggressive bit of absurdity.
    You brought this up. If that was the specific, and largest beef, you had with the website then spell it out in your original post. Instead most of us glanced at the site, didn't poke around because we all decided in a quick glance what we thought of it. News flash, most people don't "poke" around websites that they consider a waste of time. Obviously most of us didn't require a full examination to form a negative opinion.
    I think the only person here who needs to be spoon fed is you. Setting bizarre topic restrictions is ridiculous. "Hi guys here is a crappy website about using magic to pick up chicks....now I don't want any of you to criticize using magic to pick up chicks. Instead search through this crappy website until you find the secret something that he is doing that is bad!" Okay...Fine! I will...but if I do and I figure out that secret thing about this site that is ticking you off then I want a friggen prize!
    The person agreeing with Sleestak did not once "declare" that everyone agreed with Sleestak and thus the discussion was over....He said that HE agreed with Sleestak!

    Next time you want to play these peculiar word games where you expect everyone to figure out your secret agenda do us all a favor and jot it down on a friggen billet!
     
  3. #23 Craig Browning, Jul 11, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 11, 2011
    I admittedly missed that point and thanks for clarifying it. Yes, there is a reason to be concerned in that we are looking at exposure

    I believe this is much closer to my previous rant; the fact that the actions of our fellow magi DOES affect us all, it establishes a very ugly reputation and all it takes is one or two jerks in a given area to ruin it for everyone. For an example, how reticent do you think parents are these days when it comes to hiring a traditional white-faced clown for their kids birthday party because of John Wayne Gacy and the handful of other pedophiles both, in the distant past and more recent times, fit that same mold?

    Understand that Magicians & Puppeteers also fit this niche group for similar reasons. Especially given the frequency certain icons of our world have been caught-up in such situations but managed to pay-off the families and skip town before any kind of major damage could be wrought (and there’s not a single person on this forum that don’t know of this individual and the fact that he’s not the only one). But let’s set this scenario outside of magic and consider how many people now distrust both, Catholic Priests and the Bishops of the church because of the transgressions of a very small percentage of the priesthood. . .
    . . . it’s the same exact thing guys; we ARE judged by and because of the antics of our fellows whether you want to believe that or not.

    When it comes to the whole exposure side of this issue there is little to nothing we can do; the kitty has escaped from his satchel and there is no putting him back. We owe this to many “things” the biggest being the temperamental “brat” that seeks revenge against the magic community for whatever reason he/she has come up with in their mind; typically it’s feelings of suppression and not feeling a part of the community or, more specifically, someone “Important” and “respected” – an individual that “needs” to feel important and knowledgeable. Too, we have an individual that has little to no respect for magic and so, they are going to do whatever they like unless we, as a fellowship, revert back to how things were done prior to the post WWII years (the good ole days when such traders had peculiar accidents – you must understand, magic has always been a cut-throat world that was at times, vicious).

    Yes, for reasons noted, it will certainly affect us; especially as more and more rank-amateurs flood the clubs using the bits this guy exposes in the A-Typical clumsy manner most will do. Understand they are new to magic and want to show off, they’ve yet to learn the principles and psychology tied to the craft.

    Needless to say, my sentiments here would but echo what’s already been stated and what should be obvious to one and all. Unfortunately, the previous few pages of rebuttal seem to defend the predatory antics of the PUA which seems to suggest that no one cares too terribly much about the Cause & Effect scenario here, so long as they can go out and snag some tail when the mood hits them, regardless the cost and the price that must be endured by those vested in magic that look upon it in a much “higher” sense of responsibility.
    If there is the ability to post a comment to such things, expose the exposers by posting the actual lineage of this and the other items these clowns wish to call “their own”. ALWAYS include links (if possible) to legitimate magic sites that can verify the historical purview (even Wiki can work in some cases). Essentially, fight fire with fire. Too, share a clarified point of view on this topic on other forums, especially the larger forums like Magic Café, TalkMagic in the UK, etc. so word gets out and pressure on the jerkasaurouses can intensify, such as the popular petitions found on sites to ban exposure videos on YouTube.



    NOTE TO ALL -- I did not read through the entire thread until after I posted this reply, seems I wasn't the only one to "miss the point". Nonetheless, I still believe and support the gist of the comments made above, in response to our friend's previous post.
     
  4. Who cares? I've seen worse douchebag magicians that weren't picking up chicks that I would say hurt the image of our art far worse than some guy who uses it to pick up girls (Hey! Look at my card tie and my bright green blazer! Now watch these billiard balls multiply!) . Hell even I use it to pick up girls. It's no different than a guy who can sing his ass off and picks girls up that way, does that hurt the art of singing? Of course not. So my suggestion is to stop worrying about who and how other people use and perform magic and focus on yourself. As they say, be the change you want to see in the world.
     
  5. Ok, I won't lie, I have read a few PUA books, however I don't have this PUMA program, nor am I going to get it, nor do I think I am a PUA. Now since this is not a dicussion about PUA's, I will leave my oppinion on that for some other thread.
    Will this guy's program hurt magic? We'll have to wait and see. I really think it will. It may not hurt me, or any of you guys here, but it is going to hurt magic in general, and most importantly, it's going to hurt the spectators of that "magic". The one to blame here (besides the idiot who made the program) is Mystery, the "best" pick up artist in the world. Why? Because he is also a magician, and wants to have a stage show and what not... First of all, he is the main reason that this program exists because he is the best PUA, so every other guy who want's to become PUA, wants to be like him. So if Mystery is doing magic, the "guy" will want to do magic. If Mystery eats a plate of crap every morning, and says it helps him in the "Game", than every aspiring PUA will start eating crap for breakfast.
    The other reason why is Mystery to blame is because he actually gave thumbs up to this guy to make the program, and even wrote a review and a comment about the program. He was the one, if he really considers himself a magician and follows the magicians code, who was supposed to say to the guy "Hey, don't do it, I'm a magician and I don't want to see it exploited in that way", and the guy would probably listen because Mystery is "the man". The PUA community is not as big as other communities... yet. But pretty soon, you will see a bunch of guys in clubs doing "levitating drinking straw" from a hot girls glass.
    So I don't think (however, I'cannot be sure) it's going to affect many of us personally, but it is going to affect the idea of magic/magicians for the people (hot chicks) that these people will perform for. And the worst thing is, they probably won't even call themselves magicians.

    I may have complitely missed the point of the thread, but anyways, those are my thoughts just off the top of my head.
     
  6. To OP:
    Pretty much no....to every point you made.

    No, I don't think it can. And I don't think it is. At all. I think the question should be "what should we do about this?" and the answer should be "nothing." Because people will use magic for whatever reason they want. To shove it into your own personal idea of what it "should be" is simply wrong. I'm not advocating "PUMA's", but you have to accept the fact that not everyone does magic as a beautiful art. Its used for all kinds of things and in all kinds of different ways. As a magician, you should accept this fact and embrace it.

    50/50. Some people respect the art, some don't. You can't make 100% of people respect anything. I mean, you can take any point and find someone who will argue against it. My point is, people will use magic in ways that are different than what you believe to be the "correct" use, but trying to make people conform to your ideologies, is simply wrong. People use magic in all sorts of ways (to be funny, to be serious, to make people happy, to make money, to show off to their friends...to pick up chicks) This isn't wrong in any way. Those who respect magic as a beautiful art will not be turned off by some "PUMA" picking up chicks with magic. They will understand that their view of magic is different and move on.

    I would watch and embrace the fact that magic has many uses. I wouldn't scoff and look away or curse at him.


    But seriously, calling this "abuse" is ridiculous.

    I think you guys are taking this WAY too seriously. This isn't going to hurt magic or change magic. Its really not.
     
  7. Really? Really? That's what you care about? A lame guy who probably is still a virgin and thinks he's a magician by doing a riffle force? There are 9 year olds revealing tricks on YouTube. There are awful "performers" revealing tricks everywhere. There are torrents and piracy and blah blah blah... And you care about the PUMA? (btw that made me laugh so hard)

    Of course his site should close, as the YouTube revealers accounts should be closed etc. But what you gonna do?

    Leave the kids fighting for YouTube fame, leave the PUMA trying to get laid and represent your art with the best way possible.
     
  8. Being a 75% magic purist, this guy pisses me off, but being a realist, I know it won't really effect the art in a significant way.
     
  9. As Jamy Ian Swiss says: "In the face of bad magic, the best thing to do is good magic."
     

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