Penguin Magic's Attempt at The Wire
- Thread starter MagicofAdam
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Guys, just calling it as I see it
Ellusionist and Theory11's page are extremely similar, allows for lots of advertising, modern feel. The forums are divided almost the exact same way.
Dan and Dave jump started "Flourishing", now Theory11 calls it Cardistry.
The instant download feature is created, now most of the main websites have it.
Ellusionist starts making custom decks, now who doesn't have custom decks?
Companies stop selling any other products other than their own, now Theory11, Ellusionist and dan and dave all do this.
The list goes on...
"Business ethics" is the shortest class you'll ever take.
Every time this happens, the fanboy's get angry at the competing website and ignore the obvious fact that the company they defend is guilty of the same thing. Stop fooling yourselves. Recognize that this is good for you as a customer to not allow one company to have a monopoly over something which gives them free reign over that market.
Ellusionist and Theory11's page are extremely similar, allows for lots of advertising, modern feel. The forums are divided almost the exact same way.
Dan and Dave jump started "Flourishing", now Theory11 calls it Cardistry.
The instant download feature is created, now most of the main websites have it.
Ellusionist starts making custom decks, now who doesn't have custom decks?
Companies stop selling any other products other than their own, now Theory11, Ellusionist and dan and dave all do this.
The list goes on...
"Business ethics" is the shortest class you'll ever take.
Every time this happens, the fanboy's get angry at the competing website and ignore the obvious fact that the company they defend is guilty of the same thing. Stop fooling yourselves. Recognize that this is good for you as a customer to not allow one company to have a monopoly over something which gives them free reign over that market.
Clockwatcher,
Interesting that you used the word "integrity" in your response to my post. While you are entitled to your own opinion, we prefer and require that that opinion be expressed in a sincere, professional, honest manner. I found it unfortunate to discover your IP address matches that of popchris3, who has publicly posted that he is a "Penguin Magic Team Member." And now it is apparent that he is you.
Chris, as a Team Member of the company that this thread is regarding, you are welcome to continue discussion in this forum thread, but in the interest of maintaining a professional, honest atmosphere, this must be done in a transparent manner. Creating false user accounts to support your position weakens, not strengthens, your argument.
In regards to the points you brought up:
What facts? I am referring to the details of Penguin's program. There are not many yet. Nobody has seen the inner workings.
Variety is good for the creators. The Wire would not have come into existence if it were not true. Variety is not the issue.
About quality - You are very right. It will be apparent, with or without me saying anything about it. Like everyone else here, I am making observations, just as you did with my post. That is why I said what I said.
Lastly, how does "let[ting] the issue be" have anything to do with integrity? I am not sure that we should go there at the moment considering the facts.
L
See there Clockwatcher? You insulted a mod, who can look up your IP address and publicly tell everyone what you did. Not a smart move on your part.
I am constantly amazed by the lengths people are willing to go to in attempt to justify the theft of another's work or ideas. Penguin ripped off Theory11's idea, and failed to develop the idea. I don't care what business you are in; its not right. Theory11 brought us their original idea, and making excuses for Penguin to steal the idea shows a lack of respect for the company and its artists. I don't care what you say but that is morally wrong. Regardless of what others have done in any other types of business doesn't justify this act. Especially in the magic world.
This thread's getting juicy. I do find it extremely unethical for Penguin Magic to obviously rip off theory11's idea. Especially since The Wire is only a couple weeks old and is still a pretty hot topic in the magic community. However, I'm not a really big fan of this bashing of the company. (Especially from the mods) I get that they copied your idea and did it worse, but really, did you guys think that theory11 was going to be the only company to ever do this kind of thing? Remember when theory11 was new, and everyone said that it was completely copying Ellusionist? Remember when Ellusionist opened their own "1-on-1" section on their website and everyone claimed that they were copying theory11?
I'm not justifying Penguin Magic's decision to release this knockoff of theory11's The Wire, but the Wire is new, revolutionary, and popular. And other companies are going to want to do something similar to that. Kind of like that "MTV style" magic DVDs that came out a while ago. If something's new, and will get your company more money and customers, then you better believe that the company is going to take advantage of that.
At the end of it all, its YOU who decides where to market your effect. If you want to use theory11, go for it. If you want to use Penguin Magic, thats ok too. It's like the old theory11 vs Ellusionist battle. Go with whatever you like more.
I'm not justifying Penguin Magic's decision to release this knockoff of theory11's The Wire, but the Wire is new, revolutionary, and popular. And other companies are going to want to do something similar to that. Kind of like that "MTV style" magic DVDs that came out a while ago. If something's new, and will get your company more money and customers, then you better believe that the company is going to take advantage of that.
At the end of it all, its YOU who decides where to market your effect. If you want to use theory11, go for it. If you want to use Penguin Magic, thats ok too. It's like the old theory11 vs Ellusionist battle. Go with whatever you like more.
For the love of all things magical, this. This should be the end of it. I understand why T11 is mad, I do. But...it's a done deal now.
Lyle, I appreciate your response and the manner in which it was delivered. However, I would like to point out that I thought dual identities were supposed to be secret. I don't see anyone running around yelling that Clark Kent is... (see what I did there?)
In all seriousness though, I created the second account to separate my personal views from my professional ones, yet my viewpoint remains the same. Penguin Magic Team Member? Sure. But I have always been a creator, and I think I may speak for most creators in saying that the addition of a second location for publication is helpful.
In terms of my post, it may not have been the most professional that it could have been, but it most certainly was sincere and honest. The point of my post was to point out why, based upon your conjecture, that it was pointless to argue about this. While the way that I wrote it may be questionable, I like to believe that it still remains valid.
Integrity is based on morals and honesty, making it subjective. I questioned the integrity of this issue, but I insulted no one nor did I pick a side. I like both the Wire and Penguin Partnership for different reasons, and I think most creators will to.
All the best.
In all seriousness though, I created the second account to separate my personal views from my professional ones, yet my viewpoint remains the same. Penguin Magic Team Member? Sure. But I have always been a creator, and I think I may speak for most creators in saying that the addition of a second location for publication is helpful.
In terms of my post, it may not have been the most professional that it could have been, but it most certainly was sincere and honest. The point of my post was to point out why, based upon your conjecture, that it was pointless to argue about this. While the way that I wrote it may be questionable, I like to believe that it still remains valid.
Integrity is based on morals and honesty, making it subjective. I questioned the integrity of this issue, but I insulted no one nor did I pick a side. I like both the Wire and Penguin Partnership for different reasons, and I think most creators will to.
All the best.
its not just a knock off. its a similar idea, but penguin has been working closely with other magicians to get their things up. they just decided to announce it and make it public. and whats wrong with a little competition
If T11 is so confident about how great and high quality The Wire is and how "unprofessional" Penguin Partnership is, why worry about.
I agree 100%. This is just how the free enterprise system works. Sorry everyone is mad about penguin having a similar thing, but it is called competition. There are a million cell phones, some are key pad and some touch screens. They both call and text though. Penguin has a few different features T11 doesn't. What T11 may be mad about is the business that they may have turned down that penguin may take. Sorry, but this is how business is. Integrity is very subjective therefore in business people consider the law as their ceiling. T11 just happened to be on the ass end of it which is unfortunate.
and i agree with beans on this one. its a business, and just because t11 took the idea and put a name to it makes it Unique. there have been companies putting up other peoples magic for years. if i filmed my own thing and sent it to a company and they sold it, same thing as the wire. just because they promoted it and made it easier doesnt mean that you couldnt have done it in the first place with other companies like penguin, even on papercrane they would take videos that others have made on their own. so lets not say that anyone stole an idea. please we are all magicians and all in this small group lets not point fingers to the business
Honestly, you should just stop.Integrity is based on morals and honesty, making it subjective.
All the best.
You were clearly caught trying to duplicate an account saying what you really wanted to say, without worrying about what people may think of your personal views. What I'm getting at: don't talk **** if you cant back it up.
You making another account to show your views acquits anything you may have to say on the subject now.
Your posts mean nothing.
hah Rk yea i got that from and all will be consumed. i would love 2 but haha.
but yea. we'll see if people just can stop complaining about company competition and on the other hand
Sup DANNYT!
but yea. we'll see if people just can stop complaining about company competition and on the other hand
Sup DANNYT!
Haha I shoulda released Ziplocked through Penguin just to get one! Haha only kidding! In all seriousness, though, I think they're cool!
Wow, you have successfully confused me.
My apologies if you missed the post where I did back up what I said. I gave the same viewpoint in a less professional tone under a different account, which is the whole reason Lyle called me out on it. The tone you are currently using is considerably less professional, so I am only trying to understand what the point of your comment was? I explained (backed up?) mine.
What does that post offer to this thread? We are trying to discuss the differences between the two websites and the effect on submitting magic. My apologies that the thread isn't called "All about PopChris3", because you are welcome to start another.
Please try to stay on topic, or send me a PM.
All the best, Danny.
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