Question for Professionals

Feb 6, 2009
45
0
St. Louis, Missouri
Hello, I have been doing magic, juggling, card manipulation, mentalism, etc.. as a hobby over 5 years now. I am looking to take the next step and become a professional. I have been reading and doing research and found a ton of recources/information, but I am having a hard time choosing what I should get first (Money is the issue.. ). I need opinions from people who have read/watched the materials im going to list below.
If you can point me to the right recources that will help me get on my feet faster (I know it wont happen instantly ) I will really appreciate it.

Just so you know exactly what im looking for here is my needs -
Need to form multiple acts - Childrens show, Stage show, Close up, Resturaunt, ETC... (I want to be able to perform at ANY venue, ANY time!)
Need to learn MORE about the business side of entertaining. I know the basics, but I need MORE.
How to get the job and KEEP the job/ways of getting repeat customers, etc...
I need all of the information it takes to become a professional SUCCESSFUL magician. If possible I would like to learn as much as I can through others and books so I dont have to learn the hard way. It may be the best way for some, but I think its the dumbest way. (Why not be successful from the beginning? )

Here are some of the recources I found and am looking at for future buys.
I plan on buying most if not ALL of them over time, but I need to know wich will help me more than the others first.

Hustle Hustle - Joel Bauer
Maximum Entertainment - Ken Weber (Just bought)
Strong Magic - Darwin Ortiz (Just bought)
Highway to Success - Elliot Smith and Ian Quick (just bought)
Find The Stuff That's You - Chris Carey
Acting for Magicians - Unknown
Beyond Deception - Tobias Beckwith
Designing Miracles - Darwin Ortiz
Making Magic Memorable CD - Michael Ammar
Negotiating Higher Performance Fees CD - Michael Ammar
Resturaunt Magic Business CD - Charles Greene
Live at The Jailhouse - Justin Miller, Dan Fleshman, Kirk Charles, Etc..
The Magic Menu - Years 1 to 11
Performing Magic for Children - Unknown
Books of Wonder - Tommy Wonder
The Secret Art of Magic - Eric Evans?
Seriously Silly DVD - David Kaye (I already have the book!) (Just bought)
Confidential Day Careing Manual w/CD - Samuel Patrick Smith
Five Points In Magic - Juan Tamariz
Entertaining on Cruise Ships - Paul Romhany
Foundations : The Art of Stage Magic - Eberhard Riese
How to Create Kid's Magic And Triple Your Income - John Breeds
Restaurant Worker's Handbook - Jim Pace & Jerry Macgregor
Sell Your Act with Poster - Samuel Patrick Smith
Beyond Secrets - Jay Sankey
Birthday Magician's Handbook - Dave Fiscus
Kid Control - Julian Franklin
The Art of Deception - Chuck Romano
Trade Show Secrets Revealed - Phil Kannen
Kids Think It's Funny - Greg McMahan
Little Book of Big Secrets - Bill Goldman
Tips: Real World Ideas of a Working Magician - Eric Henning
How to Make Money by Magic (e-book) - Paul Daniels and Andrew Lock
The Festival Entertainer - Keith Stickley
Handbook for the Theme Park Magician - Wayne Wissner
Making Real Magic - Richard Osterlind
Magic Mirror - Robert Neale
Magic and Showmanship - Henning Nelms
Let Me Tell You A Story - Barry Mitchell
Cue Control - Axel Hecklau
Creating Material and Making Your Performances Memorable by Kent "Knepper"? and Allen "__"?

There are other material products that I would like to list as well, but for now I think this list will do.
Any and all help/other recommendations is much appreciated.
Reviews on these are WELCOME.

Thanks again! - Mike
 
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No matter how much we tell you, you won't be able to be a brilliant success overnight, as it happens differently for everyone.

The best way I've found, was to ring up restaurants and ask them about events coming up. Also, although this isn't important but is a nice touch, learn how to model balloons.

Also, sometimes your friends or parents might know someone who needs a magician for an event. I know the first gig I did was a wedding, and I only got it because my dad knew them, I was sent to their house and showed them a few things, and they loved it.

Try and get places at wedding fayres as well. more than likely you'll be the only magician there.

You just need to get out there and tell everyone about you, and eventually the effort you put in will come back to you. After a hard few years I've finally been booked up every day for a few months.

Hope this helps!

Simon_Magic
 
You can't learn how to be you, from a book....

Best thing for you to do, is to find out what you like to perform.

Think about target audience.
Quantity of audience.
Type of magic.
Venues.
Ages.
Repertoire.
Routine.
Environmental restraints.

I know you said you want to be all, but I strongly suggest you don't go that way. A jack of all trades is rubbish, compared to an expert in his field.
If a client wants a new employee to work at the bottom, and at the top, they hire two seperate people, you get me ?

Offer yourself out for free entertainment or extremely cheap, prove how good you are, find your style, pick your target audience etc etc.
Then you can hit the big time.

Remember professional maigican doesn't mean paid magician, professional means professional.


If you need anymore help shoot me an email : geraint2k2@hotmail.com
Or add me on Facebook.

G.
 
Feb 6, 2009
45
0
St. Louis, Missouri
Well thanks for the replies, but I have already known the basic info you gave me for some time now.
I was looking for someone who has actually READ these..lol
I have no problem going out and getting a job, but I am trying to do it without running into problems if I can avoid them from reading.
I have read many things that kept me from terrible reactions and other situations. I know these books are what im looking for..I just dont know wich ones are going to be the best to check out first.

Just so you know, I am no n00b. I understand performing and how to get a job as a performer. I am just looking for all of the information I need to become a magician FULL TIME. Ways to organize my business and stuff like that.

You can't learn how to be you, from a book....

No, but you can learn how to avoid mistakes and make your performances more professional. You can also learn about running your own magic business (Doing your own taxes, checking legalities, ETC..) ;)
These are the things I am looking for...not picking tricks and doing them for people. I've done plenty of that over the past 5 years...lol

EDIT: I was hoping maybe chris kenner or one of the other artists/successful magicians could answer this for me. I am sure some of them have read at least a few of these books. If you can tell me about THESE books..I am definately interested in other books/videos as well. :)
I am trying to be professional and successful. I need to learn from people who are professional/successful. :)
 
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Okay full time isn't something you are going to get from a book, it may help a bit but you will need to learn on your own what it takes to sustain steady business.

You need to limit your field on what you want to perform, it will be much more difficult to try and perform all of these types of venues. There are so many different things you are overdoing at this point.

You will most likely not be super successful right off the bat, you will need to learn on your own what plays well for what audiences. Even with all the advice the books can give you, you need to learn on your own. Find what works best for you and what entertains the audiences the most. There are many many things that determine what type of venues you will perform for.

Most likely you will not be traveling around for kids shows so a larger city you actually live in would be the best venue. Adults will be paying the money you want so most likely you will want a stage show. Close up is best done for the place you live in, since the restaurants will want return on the money they are paying you.

I don't exactly know everything you have but once you believe you know enough then go out and get the gigs, then put into effect what you actually learned from the books and do your best to keep the gigs. Start off with close up table hopping and then slowly let yourself evolve into w/e you want the next step to be.

If you already know what I just told you then you need to put a lot of worry to rest and just do it.

Best of Luck
 
Jun 10, 2008
1,277
0
You little stalker!
START WITH RESTAURANTS

For me, that was the key. Many professional magicians will tell you that restaurants are the best places to start because:

1. They give you lots of performing experience, because you perform A LOT in one night

2. Each performance at a restaurant is like a private audition. If the people who saw you at the restaurant happen to happy a party happening the next week, they will remember you as the magician, and ask to hire you.

So not only is it good for experience, but it will help you get more gigs in other venues as well. Restaurants will help you get used to improving effects based on the situation. For example, if someone is having a birthday, you might wanna change the effect up a bit to celebrate their birthday. Stuff like that

I'm not a full time professional magician, because i'm still a high school student. But trust me when i say that restaurants are the best place to start.
 
Feb 6, 2009
45
0
St. Louis, Missouri
Thanks for your input Sherlock.. (lol, that sounds so rude. :p)
I know that learning on my own from experience will probably get me going to where I want to be, but it will take much more time, effort, and other aspects from my life wich I dont have much of right now.
I just want as much information as possible before I go out and become public.
I am not the kind of guy who will wait for his clients/business to come to him. I am the kind of guy who will be taking away all of the business from other magicians because I have so much drive and determination to succeed. :)

If you dont know about these books could you point me to someone who might know?

START WITH RESTAURANTS

I am not looking to figure out how or where to get a job. I am looking for the behind the scenes stuff. The stuff the REAL pros do. Contracts, Invoices, Legalities, Marketing, and other stuff. I am also trying to find sources on methods for creating acts and stuff like that. Magic is not only about amazing people, making them laugh, or making them freak out. Its a business and to be the best in your area you need to be a good magician AND business man.
 
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Deechristopher

theory11 moderator
Moderator
I don't know many magic books which cover how to do your taxes :p

I'd say that the first thing you should do is get in contact with a performers union, we have Equity over here, not sure of the US equivalent, but they'll be able to give you advice on the business side, or recommend courses to go on - As a member of Equity, I have £10m public liability insurance, which means that if I accidentally push someone off my stage or stab them in the eye with a fork, I'm covered. A lot of venues won't have you perform with out insurance, so that'd be your first stop in my eyes.

There are alot of magic books out there which will tell you various 'secrets' to becoming a professional magician, in reality, there's nothing better than learning through experience, as noted above, You may be a PHENOMENAL magician and an AMAZING business man, but the fact is, a lot of stuff is out of your control when it comes to gigs, I've found myself having to perform outdoors in daylight in the past when I've been told that it'd be a much more controlled environment.

I'd suggest reading everything you can, there are lots of books and ebooks around, Kranzo's just released a really cool little ebook that'd be great for someone looking to push for regular work - He outlines a battle plan, rather than lots of techniques and advice here and there.

As a quick re-cap, Go to a performers union for advice, they should be able to point you in the right direction for day courses on becoming self employed and the biz side as well as provide you with public liability insurance, which is essential.

Read lots of books, but do it inbetween gigging as much as you can and working out how to prep for when things aren't ideal. Everyone's acts are different, so it's not something you can really learn from a book - Take into account everything that could go wrong, cause at some point, it will!!

Hope that helps, but as an aside, try not to insult other members of the forum by putting down their 'input' I can't speak for the others, but I know that Geraint makes a lot of money from magic, in a relatively small community.

DC
 
Feb 6, 2009
45
0
St. Louis, Missouri
Thanks for your advice Deechristopher.
I will look into that.

(Sorry if my wording sounds rude or insulting. I am not so good at sounding nice through text or even sometimes in person. Its a life thing...:eek:)
 
Mar 29, 2008
882
3
You state that you are looking for someone to reference you to the “right” material to help you start a business? If this is the case – you want “Highway to Success” by Smith/Quick to help you start a business.

I would suggest Strong Magic and Designing Miracles – as both will help you choose your material, and help you make what you choose stronger.

I have read many of the books listed, they will all help you – not many will help you do it all, but all will help you some. Your goal is pretty broad; you seem to lack focus, outside of being “successful”. However, what is success to you? Money – large audiences – positive feedback? It can be different for all. Regardless, write a business plan – it will help you define success.

From what you state – you really want Highway to Success to help establish your business. It will give you access to a website, with sample stuff that you listed: invoices, letterhead, mail outs, spreadsheets for call tracking, etc. It really helped me when I started.

Good luck!
 
Feb 6, 2009
45
0
St. Louis, Missouri
You state that you are looking for someone to reference you to the “right” material to help you start a business? If this is the case – you want “Highway to Success” by Smith/Quick to help you start a business.

I would suggest Strong Magic and Designing Miracles – as both will help you choose your material, and help you make what you choose stronger.

I have read many of the books listed, they will all help you – not many will help you do it all, but all will help you some. Your goal is pretty broad; you seem to lack focus, outside of being “successful”. However, what is success to you? Money – large audiences – positive feedback? It can be different for all. Regardless, write a business plan – it will help you define success.

From what you state – you really want Highway to Success to help establish your business. It will give you access to a website, with sample stuff that you listed: invoices, letterhead, mail outs, spreadsheets for call tracking, etc. It really helped me when I started.

Good luck!

I bought Highway to Success, Strong Magic, and Maximum Entertainment to start with. They have the best recommendation points on my list so far.
Designing Miracles, Live at the Jailhouse, and Books of Wonder are probably my next books. Not for sure though.

You said I lack focus outside of being successful, but I assure you im not. :)
Im just trying hard to get everything together faster than it would without me asking a bunch of questions etc...

Nothing wrong with adding a boost to the slow process. ;)

Thanks for your post.
 
Sep 2, 2007
87
0
Las Vegas, NV
Didn't care much for live at the jailhouse. I know it's billed as a definititve guide, and very well may be for someone trying to land their first job, which I'm assuming you've already done by the sounds of your opening post. You won't quite get anything here that you won't get somewhere else that talks generally about the business of being a professional magician.

I'm a Fitness Manager by trade and children's magic is my side gig. I'd advise you kinda like I advise my staff.

"The Personal Training stuff (certs and degrees), creating training programs for clients that help them attain their goals... that's the easy stuff; it's what we live for.

But you can't train someone you haven't sold. So you must get in your head, you're a sales person first, and a personal trainer second. Moreover, it's a very particular kind of sell... what you're marketing is an intangible, because after they write the check, all they've got is a reciept and a promise that you're going to deliver the goods."

So, your mental approach should be: First - I'm a business person/owner: Many of the resources you listed will touch on Business Owner Mindset specifically from a Magician / Entertainer Standpoint; Second - I'm a Sales Person -- which depending on your personality can be very uncomfortable. I mean how many of us got into magic / fitness so we can become sales people. Best Sales Resources I can recommend is High-Trust Selling by Todd Duncan which deals with selling either high-ticket items or services both of which demand the salesperson develop a high level of trust before the sale http://www.hightrustselling.com/ and Anthony Robbins' Mastering Influence http://www.tonyrobbins.com/solutions/ProductsDetail.aspx?ProductID=661 where he goes over sales principles that are commonly implemented by 200 of the top sales people on the planet. Third for the Magician / Entertainer part, the only resource I'd add to your list would be Brian Brushwood's Pack the House - The Ultimate Ever-Growing Guide to Increasing Attendance At Your Campus Events http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0971364613/flatwave-20 which will show you how to get the most amount of leverage for your marketing efforts and dollars.

Lastly, on an offbeat, here's a great article that really spoke to me regarding heroes/mentors, and indirectly what's made me successful in my career (I'm a teacher that fell into personal training). http://shwood.squarespace.com/news/...y-teller-gave-me-the-secret-to-my-career.html Lots of wisdom here.

Hope this helps.
 
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If you don't already have it, I really recommend you purchase David Stone's book Close-Up: The Real Secrets of Magic as well as his Real Secrets of Magic DVD set. The book offers very practical advice for independently starting a full-time career in magic performance. In the DVDs, Stone also guides the viewer to choosing the appropriate material, style, and venue to thrive in the entertainment business. I found his advice and guidance to be very valuable; I've landed various (long-term) gigs just using what I've learned from these sources alone. Honestly, they're gold-mines, and whether it be the performance-side or business-side of magic, I think you'll learn quite a bit from David Stone's experience.

As far as real-world experience goes, I don't see you needing much more than these sources. So much information was consolidated for the serious, aspiring performer.

RS.



 
Thanks for your recommendations!

I believe the book was actually meant to supplement the DVDs, but it's a powerful resource on its own. It covers everything from promotional tools, building a clientele base, increasing tips, to managing individual spectators, interacting with VIPs, and taking care of logistics such as travel and fuel expenses. I don't think much (if anything) was left out of the picture. All the advice given is supported by amusing stories that David Stone actually experienced first-hand as he developed his chops in the professional magic world. It is a great, great book, and I think it's exactly what you're looking for.

The DVDs are top-notch as well. Not only do you get some of the same high-end advice you do in the book, you also get some hard-hitting, practical material that you can swiftly adopt into your own working repertoire. If you're unfamiliar with his magic, he's an award-winning performer who's traveled the world with his classy brand of close-up magic. He's won awards at FISM, FFFF, and the Diavol Grand Prix to name a few. I believe that attests how credible he is.

RS.
 
Here's a tip from Luke Jermay's 3510, "The performers perspective of their performance is worthless." The reason I quoted this is because it's not what you like necessarily when performing but what plays well for the audience and touches their sense of astonishment.

I don't see how your comment was rude or anything, and to be honest don't really care. If you take the advice we give you and put into effect then you will get positive results. You are to broad in what you are looking for, however since you haven't started anything quite yet you have plenty of time to narrow down what you feel comfortable in and perform well.

Dedication is something that will help you very much, but I know a few people that were so caught up in perfecting w/e it was and never actually put into effect what their original plan was. I'm not saying you are but, don't be scared to jump in when you have the confidence in what you are performing.

Best of Luck
 
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