REVIEW: Diagonal Palm Shift (1-on-1)

Discussion in 'Product Questions and Reviews' started by Shakutau, Dec 27, 2008.

  1. #1 Shakutau, Dec 27, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 28, 2008
    Hey dudes, SK here. I almost forgot today that there was a new 1-on-1 released (around Saturday in the UK), and i noticed this Diagonal Palm Shift, taught by Jason England, been hearing a lot of good things of Jason's previous 1-on-1's but i didn't get any of them because it didnt fit my sleight artillery. I've been lookin forward to Jason's teachings but didn't force myself to buy his previous 1-on-1's, when this came out i just had to buy it. I tell you why in a minute.

    || About the 1-on-1 ||

    Expert card technician Jason England teaches the details and nuances of the classic Diagonal Palm Shift move - most notably found in S.W. Erdnase's classic book Expert at the Card Table - in nearly 35 minutes of detailed instruction.

    Basically a card control: method to steal a card or multiple cards intro a full palm. However, 35 mins of detailed instruction. Detailed is what we are looking at here. For one move to be explained for nearly 35 mins, thats another thing to take note - thus you should see there are fine points to consider in this move.

    || Quality ||

    Don't worry, nobody has been dissapointed with T11's 1-on-1 qualities. For those of you who don't know, 5 stars.

    || Teaching ||

    As it says on the description of the 1-on-1, nearly 35 mins of detailed instruction, that is not a lie. Jason goes through step by step basics of this move, then moving intro modifications, variations, angles, tips, further applications of this move. The teaching is amazing. Direct and Clear. Everything you should know about this move is taught and mentioned, so don't worry about it. It won't disapoint you.

    || Thoughts ||

    I first came across this move when Ellusionist released the Shapeshifter DVD, Marc teaches briefly the Shift, along with his further applications to the move. Because it was so brief, i didn't get much learning experience from it, i tried it out a few times, it got too knacky, too uncomfortable, so i gave up on the move. But after watching the Shapeshifter DVD and seeing Marc perform this card control, i have been wanting to learn it, but i didn't have any good sources to learn it from properly. I tried forcing myself to learn from that DVD, but i noticed many problems, such as palming, etc. So i gave up.

    When T11 released this as a 1-on-1, i was saved. When i saw this move being executed, i thought this kind of sleight were only possible for people who have experience in palming cards, unlike myself the only palm i know and execute all the time is the Gambler's Cop. Other than that i knew no other palms and was scared to learn other techniques due to my small hands. But i was always interested in this move, jus couldn't learn from what i had.

    I love T11 1-on-1's, i love em to the pound. Each of them i love. And im suprised at myself making a review for the sleight i'm most scared of. So i'd thought i'd give this one a shot, see what i can learn from it, to my suprise, i learnt a lot. I've always wanted to learn palming, but like i said due to the fear of small hands i only learnt and use the Gamblers cop.

    My opinion, the teaching is very clear, for a person that hates palming, i love it. I love the technique taught, i love being able to see how its done close up for nearly 35 mins, i love being able to practice it myself. So dudes with small hands, do not worry. My hands can't hide all of the card, but i treat this like a Gamblers Cop, only the card is long way's, which is still cool, i can pull up my sleeves and go to my pockets with a card palmed as taught in the Shift.

    Angles on this sleight is good news, it is covered from most angles (except of someone was birdseye viewing you front top or behind - but that wont happen anyhow so don't worry). Large hands help, but small hands can also get the job done, jus takes work.

    Difficulty is hard to say, but for a person who can't palm a full card, i found this pretty easy to get down, as for perfection, long road ahead. This sleight will definately be next to the Gamblers Cop.

    || Conclusion ||

    I rate this 5 star soley because of my personal needs, i have been wanting to learn a sleight, which i can and will use, which i will enjoy practicing. My opinion, if you're looking to improve card control, don't hesitate to take a peak at this sleight to see if it works for you, if you have other ways of stealing a selected card or multiple cards then, good. Most if us here have bought Ricky Smith's Cherry Control, its somewhat on the same line in terms of application to this move, that gets the job done too - but its personal preference like i said.

    The price for this sleight you ask? I knew T11 would give me quality for something i've been wanting to learn and use, finally it's here, so i didnt think price was a problem. In all seriousness, i believe the price was worth it. Why you ask? Because i expected to learn the move from quality teaching, and i got it. You can learn from books, not a problem, but not all 35 mins of (personal) instruction will be found in books.

    Alright. Chou nah Uleh.
  2. I'm sorry, but 10 dollars for just one sleight is ridiculous. especially if the sleight is free to learn (legally i might add) from the book. If you need to spend 10 dollars (more than the entire Expert at the Card Table book!) then you are just being lazy and dont want to put the time into learning the move.

    Take that 10 dollars and buy Erdnase, you will learn a lot more from it. Sure it might take you a little longer than watching it on the download, but not much. It really isnt a difficult move to learn, it does however take a lot of practice.

    If you truly want to advance your card technique, spend the money on the book and really put in the time. Dont just waste your money to try to learn things as fast as possible, because in the long run its not worth it.

    Victor Cruz
  3. Have you bought any have Mr.England's 1on1's?

  4. I dare you to buy a jason england 1on1 and then say the exact same thing
  5. I have seen his push through tutorial, but for things like the bottom deal i can understand or the second deal i can understand, but the Diagonal palm shift is just not worth 10 dollars to learn from video. But im sure it will sell well. Simply because young magicians hate reading and will avoid it at all costs. If this were posted somewhere like the magic cafe, where professial magicians post regularly, this would not likely sell at all. But T11 is the perfect market i guess. Like i said this move is not difficlut to understand at all. You really dont need video to help you with it.

    If your buying this over erdnase, its a bad (and lazy) investment.
  6. Find me a single qualified expert that advises AGAINST having a virtual private lesson on a move, the pitfalls, the angles, the subtleties, and the history for 35 minutes - and I'll find you a snowstorm in Hades.

    Having expert instruction with tips and hints, over 15 years of experience (Jason England) in 35 minutes of training, covering material, insight, and knowledge from multiple books and resources (including Chris Kenner, Richard Turner, and Steve Forte) vs. four pages in Erdnase? Night and day.

    In no way, shape, or form does Jason ever recommend only watching these 1-on-1's as your sole source of instruction - but it is an incredibly encompassing start. Regarding your comment that the Diagonal Palm Shift is an easy move - it is not at all. I have seen far more "professional" magicians do the move visibly, improperly, and awkwardly than I have seen do it well, invisibly, and properly.

    I found the rest of your post stereotypical and disrespectful ("young magicians hate reading") towards a large group of our members, and as such, I don't think that warrants response. I'll rest my case there. For now, I refer you to this post. Enough said.
  7. I have a question, whats this sleight do exactly? Does it just palm a card from the center of the deck? Is it in a bottom palm position?
  8. If it doesnt warrant a response, then why respond to it? In any case, i dont think that it was disrespectful at all. Lets take a poll of how many magicians here own nothing but DVDs and maybe a beginners book like "worlds greatest card tricks" or something like that with just self workers and mathematical tricks. Im sure you will find a LOT of people here like that. In fact that is one of the major things that older more experienced magicians are trying to tell the younger generation that just gets wrapped up in the hype of the next hottest DVD. To put it simply younger magicians hate reading. Its not disrespectful its a true statement in most cases. Yes it is a generalization, but with the overwhelming majority of magician here representing the group that i mentioned i do not recant my statement.

    I mean who did i disrespect? If you are a young magician, and you read magic books, then this obviously doesnt apply and it shouldnt bother you at all. Im sure you are as aware as anyone that most of your peers in the magic community dont share the same thoughts about books.
    If you are a young magician and you dont read books, then that statement was for you. At no time did i say anything disrespectful about people that dont read books. I simply made the observation about it.

    On to the another topic of you post. Why did both you and Bayme compare the 35 minute download to the 4 (or 5) pages in erdnase? That isnt at all what i was comparing. For the 10 dollars you spend on this download you can get the entire book of Erdnase. I really think that i would take all the pages of erdnase over extremely detailed instructions on a move that really wont take much to understand. So if you think that really detailed instructions on one move is worth more than a couple hundred pages of arguably the best book ever written on cards, then i guess go for it. But that is a better comparison if you want to make one.

    As for Bayme's post. Of course he will defend the video, it is his site. Im sure if you asked him about it, he would even defend "flo" saying that it wasnt a rip off. Lets here from some experienced people that dont have a stake in this. No disrespect to bayme, but he says how great it was to sit down with these other guys and listen to them. Well did they charge him 20 dollars an hour to do so? Probably not. He says "nor in the spirit of advancing instruction within this community". Well if you guys are really about advancing the art lets just put out these tutorials for free. I mean hell it only cost Jason 30 minutes of his time, and its not like he invented the move. So he's really not losing anything but that half hour. You can shoot it with a normal video camera instead of a high def one, and do it in one take instead of doing a lot of editing. Now you have just cut the production cost down to about 0 dollars and you really havent done it at the expense of the quality of teaching. But come on do you really think that would ever happen?

    Lets not forget what this is all about. Sure people say that they want to advance the art and what not. But lets not forget what this is really all about. Money. That is the only reason these tutorials are being made. Sure they would like them to be perfected and not performed before you have done so. But to be honest they would be ok with you just downloading it and leaving it there to sit. Its about money, as long as you pay and dont negatively affect their sales, everything is copacetic.

    Lets think, why are there so many DVDs being released constantly regardless of how crappy the trick is? Lets be honest there are a lot of crap DVDs being released all the time. Now lets go back a few years before magic hit the sort of fad stage it is in right now. How many videos or even books were being released then? Did everyone in the magic comunity suddenly decide that they wanted to help out the magic community as much as they can by releasing all their secrets? Come on... Its becasue there is a market for it. And people want to get paid. Its not because they want to advance the art. If that were the case people would have been releaseing material a long time ago. Magic used to be all about the secrets. You had to really earn the secrets you were taught from others. Now anyone with a visa card can learn all the secrets of magic they want. Its not about advancing anything. Its about a check at the end of the day. Sure they want to produce good material (most of the time. lets not forget flo and death to the double undercut lol) but that is only to bring customers back to make more money.

    Sorry for the long post, but i had a lot to say on the subject. I look forward to your reply.

    Victor Cruz
  9. I honestly don't care if it's Jason England teaching the move. He won't make my progress on the sleight any faster. I would rather just learn from trial and error/experiment by myself by just reading the copy of Erdnase I got for 7 bucks. 3 dollars LESS than the 1on1 where not only do I get to learn the sleight itself, but a lot of other things.

    Oh and by the way, it's free to learn online by downloading the PDF of the book legally. :)
  10. I don't usually do this, but I would like to step in here: The Diagonal Palm Shift is one of the most difficult moves in magic.

    Any move is easy to half ass, but to strive for perfection is a lifetimes work. I had read Erdnase and worked on the DPS for years, but could never get it past a certain point of looking good. I spent over a month on a crowded tour bus this summer with Bill Kalush (look him up if you don't know who he is). Bill prides himself with everything Erdnase and moves that no one else in the world can do. I was lucky enough to gain Bill's trust and confidence for him to show me the subtleties and nuances with the DPS that makes his look so good.

    I am still far from perfection, but those valuable sessions of instruction complimented Erdnase in the same way Jason England's video does here. If you don't have the opportunity to learn this difficult move from a master in person, this video is your next best option. It in no way guarantees success, and should not be considered a replacement, but it will definitely give you some insight and put you on the right track to learning the move properly. Jason also delves into some variations, angles, covers, and common pitfalls that are not found in Erdnase. For anyone that considers this move easy, I would love to see yours.

    Even with the best camera angle you can find, I am sure I could find a flaw compared to what I have seen from those who really know how to do the move. To put things in perspective, is a double lift easy? I doubt you could fool me with one.
  11. Jason England learnt the control from Erdnase, so why cant we?

  12. #12 Doug McKenzie, Dec 29, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 29, 2008
    You can and should ... This is more information that compliments (not replaces) learning from Erdnase.
  13. Am I on crazy pills? This is an awesome 1-on-1.

    I have played with this move for 30 years and consider myself a pretty informed card guy. Jason is one of my best friends and I still learned something from this 1-on-1 on the DPS. NOTHING is better then learning from someone that has done the work already. The experience, the insight, the tips - this stuff is invaluable. JDEN, it's not about how you can learn the basic technique. It's how you can BEST learn the move and it's eccentricities.

    I am not sure what point "DJDonkeyPuncher" is trying to get across but I don't understand why anyone would stereotype the youth of magic. Times are changing and people - not just young people - are learning from other sources than just books. Take a look at the way all education is headed. Kids are way smarter then they were when I was young. And there is a good reason for this.

    I can only imagine how exciting that it would be to have all this knowledge at your finger tips. I would have done just about anything for the internet when I was a kid. I give the youth a great deal of respect and I try to realize that this is the hand that they were dealt. You guys don't have to read books like I did as a kid. That is not to say that books are any less valuable in instruction as they have been for the past hundred years - it means that your magic instruction should be comprehensive. If you're a serious student of the art, use all available resources. Seek all of the experienced advice and expertise you can. The more you know, the better you can become.

  14. #14 Andrei, Dec 29, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 29, 2008
    Agreed 100%, and as a result....the youth is able to get involved - along with many other newcomers - which helps forward the art in the long run. It goes both ways. You may be right in saying nowadays anyone with a credit card has access to magic...however...the key to any art-form is not knowing it's secrets, it's having the consistency, dedication, and drive forward to remain.

    -Andrei Jikh
  15. I have the Wesley James set dvds that teaches every move on the erdnase. Even though, I am still planning to buy this 1 on 1, I wanna know if Wesley James's teaching on the DPS is legit. Thanks.
  16. i'll be honest...i was excited to see this 1-on-1 come out for two reasons

    first off, i never fully understood this move straight from reading erdnase. I kept playing with it on and off but was never comfortable with it..i never really knew how it was suppose to be executed..especially in real time. The description in the book spans across 4 pages and has only 3 pictures. I dont think you can compare 3 pictures to 30 min. video.

    secondly, yes it is true that you can learn the DPS from the book ("if jason learned it from the book why can;t I") HOWEVER ask yourself how much longer will it take you to understand the basic concept from the book? Then how much longer will it take you to learn and hopefully perfect the move. You will run into different nacks and problems with the move that might be cleared up by jason in the video. This will save time and aggravation on your part...instead of searching for the answers to the problem, why not just let the answers be shown to you so you won;t need to go looking for them?

    i think its a small price to pay for an invaluable lesson

  17. Isn't Wesley James' Erdnase set considered the drizzling ****s? Denis Behr seems to think so (I think it's him) as do several other cardmen.

    Personally I've just finished watching Dai Vernon teach me the DPS and I still picked this one up because you can never have too much information. I will only get better the more information I have
  18. what do u mean by drizzling ****s
  19. I've been doing the DPS for a while now, learned from Erdnase and Carney on Palming. Without wanting to come across arrogant, I'm not bad at it. On a good day maybe even with less finger-flutter than Mr England's first couple of demos on the 1-on-1 trailer. However, I'm still considering buying the 1-on-1. It's a move requiring finesse and subtlety, and if you really want to learn something well, you won't refuse any scrap of information that may assist you. Unless you genuinely believe that Jason England has nothing whatever worthwhile to say on the subject, this is definitely a good investment

    And, by the way, the Wesley James Erdnase DVD set is awful, get the Allan Ackerman/Geno Munari one for preference.
  20. he means that it is absolutely terrible and probably the worst way to learn the moves in erdnase.

    I understand what chris was saying, but still i think that there is no real reason for the price to be so high. Thats what i was saying, thats the point i was trying to get across. That young magicians (again, generally speaking as i am one myself) dont like to read from books. I never said that they were superior in anyway, I'm just saying that the majority of people purchasing this, will be doing so with out having learned from erdnase and would rather buy this one move simply because it is in video. Even if the tips taught in here are priceless, if the real goal is to help out the community, why not release it for free. Or at most 5 dollars? If there is another reason, like because you need to make money thats fine, i understand how business works and i understand that it will probably make you more money at 10 dollars vs 5. But i think its a bit underhanded to say that all this is to help out the community and then charge 10 dollars for a single move and say your are ONLY trying to help out the community.
    I just dont understand why it needs to be 10 dollars if you just wanna help. Thats all, but everyone seems to have ignored that bit of my post. I understand that you have to say certain things and defend certain things because of the company you are affiliated with, but i hope that even if you dont post it, you understand what im saying.

    Victor Cruz

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