Skeptics?

[HobbitHandz]

hi boys and girls, quick question to you intermidiate to pro magicians.

I am a begginer with slight of hand/magic, and I tried tonight to preform a couple tricks for my friends
(3 in total)

2 were buying my rap yet this 3rd friend of mine is full on sceptic and was ruining my tricks by askinf to "hold the deck or shuffle it after they had handled it ect

I was lost since cards i'd either palmed or controlled were just ruined by a simple
"let me shuffle now you have handled the deck"

What do you more pro to average level magicians do in that situation?

cheers guys/gals

 

[rich23]

Its kind of difficult to answer that with out seeing your performance, when i know im going to
have spectators like that, i change the tricks im doing, very good example i always keep a breather crimped
card in my deck so if know my spectator is very skeptical i force them that card then they can shuffle and cut
all they want and i have complete control, or sometimes i wont even do stuff were they have to select a card,
i might do stuff like the asher twist or a tnr. something quick and visual that does not require them to select
a card.

 

[RobAnderson]

How old are you and your friends? What exactly were you showing them, and what kind of presentation were you doing for it? There are a lot of guys in their mid teens who just want to show that they know the secret; nothing more. If you're a beginner, a lot of times it's best to avoid showing magic when trolls like this are around. I'm also not sure what you mean by "buying your rap". Were you trying to convince them you have some kind of special power? Most people, especially your friends, are never going to believe this, and to be honest it's unethical (at best) to try to convince them otherwise. If you're just starting out, tell them you want to show them something cool you just learned how to do, and go from there.

Now me personally, if anyone gets smart and starts asking to shuffle the deck or inspect something that's gimmicked, I'll either say something like "sure, in a minute, but watch this first..." and move on and forget about it. If they keep pestering me about it (and this works for ME and MY personality), I'll laugh in their face and give them a deadpan line, something like "haHAAAAAaaaa you're out of your mind.". I'll shoot them a little smile to show them I didn't mean any offense, but I'm not going to let them screw me up, and then ignore them and perform for the other people who are interested. This works for me personally because of my crazy, overly animated performing style I tend to use, and I would definitely not recommend this for everyone. You'll find out what works for you after lots and lots of performing. For now, try what I suggested above. I really would like to hear what your presentation was like though.

 

[HobbitHandz]

OK baisically, I tried a couple things.. the first trick I tried was Bad Influence by d+m,
(sorry for those who do not know this trick)
they did not see my sleight of hand so I pulled that off nice, the trick all went according to plan untill it was time to reveal the chosen cards. My dick friend jumps in and say's something like "I dont belive you only have 4 cards let me hold them" and of course I had 5 becuase its the one ahead principle, and Id had a card palmed ect .so ye trick one ruined.

The next trick I was going to show was not really even a trick.. just something cool it was the
invisible palm by wayne houchin.

Same thing again from my dick friend so he doesn't believe anything unless he can inspect the cards himself. Before and after ect.

I was thinking, I need a trick for him, that happens in the spectators hands ya know? For a heavy sceptic. But I was rather annoyed he would try so hard to ruin a bit of magic. :/

btw when I said "my rap" I mean my patter.

 

[formula]

You need to tailor your magic for friends. Friends are more comfortable with you than strangers so a friend will pick up your deck of cards without asking when a stranger would either say nothing or ask to look. Strangers will rarely have a casual attitude towards your magic but friends take liberties. Friends also care less about little things like interrupting you.

Me and my friends are mid to late twenties and I've been friends with some of them since I started magic over 10 years ago, so they've seen a lot of my magic and I regularly test new things on them but my presentation is very different for them. Some of my friends recently attended one of my gigs and that was the first time they saw the performer side of me. They said it was a completely different person to they know.

I feel like I've rambled a bit there but I hope you get what I'm trying to say and that it helps.

 

[HobbitHandz]

Thanks formula I am really still "new" to magic and have put in a fair amount of practice, and I also am "mid twenties" like my friends. I see your point its a very correct point aswell. I think with my performance I produced my tricks as I would for strangers rather then I should have for "friends" so with that said, I should tailor different tricks for friends then to what I will show to strangers.

I was just a little disapointed since I didnt know how to recover from an overly sceptic person with my routines.

 

[formula]

I understand your disappointment. The more experience you get the more you will learn about coping with situations like it, whether it's a technical of showmanship solution.
Personally, when I'm performing for friends I keep all of the patter and showmanship to a minimum because they don't really care for it. My friends are good, in the way that if I'm over doing the patter for them they'll tell me to just get on with the actual magic.

What I do might not work for you though and you might want to practice your actual performance on friends so here's a few solutions off the top of my head if people ask to shuffle the cards.

1. Palm the selected card and put the hand with the palmed card across your other hand in a casual way. You can also turn around so your back is facing them while they shuffle (you have to be standing to turn your back to them really) and your hands will look deceptively clean. It's a really old move/idea.

2. Glimpse the card before giving the deck to them to shuffle. Easily done if the card is on the top or bottom of the deck.

3. Use something like Michael Ammar's universal utility device. You have to wear a buttoned shirt but it's something you can have on you all day long and it doesn't restrict you in any way but what it enables you to do is have a card selected, returned to the deck and then almost instantly you can hand the deck to anyone to shuffle while you retain complete control over the selected card.

Hope that's useful to you.

 

[RobAnderson]

It sounds like you've got the right idea, but some of your friends are just tools. That's unfortunate, but I can tell you from experience you generally won't change people like that. Many people will be excited to see you perform (especially girls) so concentrate on them! Also, the invisible palm (which has been around long before Wayne Houchin was born) is a sleight-heavy, difficult routine. It's great, and I commend you for tackling it! My suggestion would be to start with something shorter, easier, but still visual, such as a sandwich routine, or my personal favorite "That's it!", otherwise known as 2 card monte. Royal Road To Card Magic is one book that has a lot of great, short, visual, easy routines that your friends will love. Keep at it though; if you can successfully perform an invisible palm routine, you've got my respect!

 

[Josh Burch]

My dad is a little like that, he insists on being the most difficult spectator possible. I have to be very selective when I perform my magic, for him and everyone else. Some times I just have to step back and say "If you don't want to see the trick like it was intended I can stop now".

I do want to say though sometimes his advice is very helpful. If he wants to shuffle the cards at a certain point then I might try to work in a way that he can in a future performance. If a layman thinks that magic should look one way it might at least be something to consider.

Sometimes if you can fry them on their own terms they'll give you a bit more slack in future occasions. All this being said if people wont cooperate I just put my cards away and call it good for now.

 

[RickEverhart]

Lots of great info here fellas. Perhaps the most important thing to realize is to stop performing for your close friends because they truthfully don't care about interrupting you and calling you out during the effect. Strangers are almost NEVER going to ask to inspect things or grab at items in your hand. I've been performing for about 10 years or so and my biggest head aches came from my closet friends. They liked to try and get me flustered and "fail" at my effects. This was their form of entertainment. They would want to inspect EVERYTHING...cards...pen..coin..etc.

When I'm out doing strolling gigs at restaurants or wedding receptions I rarely run into issues like you mentioned with complete strangers. Perhaps you are performing way too much for these guys. Don't fall into the easy trap of buying, buying, and buying more to entertain your friends and family. We all do this at first.

Focus on your good material and start performing for complete strangers. You will see your reactions and professional growth will increase dramatically.

Be careful with Rob's advice on focusing on the girls, this is true, they make great spectators most times, but make sure you have performed for their boyfriend or whoever the head man at the table is first. You don't just go busting into their little group and entertaining the women or you will find yourself in a heap of hecklers from all the dudes with them. They get jealous quickly over the laughing and smiling their girls are doing with you and they know they can't do anything about it.

Just food for thought.

 

[HobbitHandz]

Thanks guys, your advice is spot on and helped me overcome this little set back, It just got to me as I am new and spent some time and effort on my routines, only to have one friend try and spoil it by being a smart ass. Thanks to you all tho for the effort in helping me out, I will take everything you said into consideration, and work on strangers over friends since everything you said about them all "not caring about my patter" ect is all spot on.

 

[Randy]

I would suggest seriously limiting when and how many things you perform. If you want to perform for your group of friends, do it once a month and only show them ONE thing each month.

 

[RobAnderson]

Be careful with Rob's advice on focusing on the girls, this is true, they make great spectators most times, but make sure you have performed for their boyfriend or whoever the head man at the table is first. You don't just go busting into their little group and entertaining the women or you will find yourself in a heap of hecklers from all the dudes with them. They get jealous quickly over the laughing and smiling their girls are doing with you and they know they can't do anything about it.

Right, and I wasn't advising to bust into a table full of people and show off for the girls. When performing for friends though, your girl friends are usually a safer bet than the guys; that's all I was getting at.

 

[RickEverhart]

Agreed. They have a less tendency to screw with you as in comparison to your male companions.

 

[William Draven]

hi boys and girls, quick question to you intermidiate to pro magicians.

I am a begginer with slight of hand/magic, and I tried tonight to preform a couple tricks for my friends
(3 in total)

2 were buying my rap yet this 3rd friend of mine is full on sceptic and was ruining my tricks by askinf to "hold the deck or shuffle it after they had handled it ect

I was lost since cards i'd either palmed or controlled were just ruined by a simple
"let me shuffle now you have handled the deck"

What do you more pro to average level magicians do in that situation?

cheers guys/gals

Well performing for teenagers, especially your peers can be rough. They know you personally so they feel they can take liberties with you that they may not with others. The biggest thing you have to remember is it's your show, you are in control. If you know giving the deck to the spectator to re-shuffle will ruin the effect then don't hand it to them. Tell them no, tell them just watch, or just do another trick that is self working. As you perform more you'll start to get an idea of who will be a problem and how to manage them. Don't let this get to you, and keep up the good work!

 

[Justin.Morris]

If I have a finger break and someone asks to shuffle, I will move the break under their card then twist the deck face up and hand it to them. This allows me to glimpse the selected card (no idea where this glimpse comes from - anyone?). Then I do a truth/lie routine or I practice my equivoque.

 

[Randy]

I'd still suggest not performing for them all the time. Why devalue yourself into becoming the "magic guy" aka The Court Jester and thus making them not take you seriously anymore. You need to learn to control the situation and the first thing to do is ONLY perform when and where you want. If they ask to see some magic, tell them the time is not right or that the atmosphere doesn't work at this moment. Then leave them waiting/wanting it for awhile. Treat it like a movie sequel, rather than having it come out right away after the original film, make them wait for it (the one good effect/routine a month idea). Once they start to realize that you're not a puppet, they should start enjoying the effects more often.

Also, I'd suggest having a bit better confidence in your performances and if they start trying to interrupt a performance to shuffle the cards, just do as the DARE program used to say "Just say no." and continue the performance. If they continue to act like asses, then simply cut them off and don't perform for them again.

 

[HobbitHandz]

I love you all. And still surprised at how much knowledge and info all you guys have made to my "rant" thread! I just want to clarify tho that I dont "over-preform" infact Ive hardley done magic for them before, but one friend in particular likes to try to spoil the tricks becuase he doesnt want to think he can be fooled. All is good tho, with the knowledge from you guys and some practice and confidence, I know I will get better.

 

[discover]

All they would need to do is look at the actual science behind it. Skeptics of something with as much proof as global warming, evolution, the Big Bang, etc.