Skilled Hobbyist vs. Magician

[KevinOwens]

So to all the sleight junkies out there and the magicians frustrated by them

So let's be honest. When you first were introduced to the modern forms of visual magic for the first time, such as the Bucks, you were pretty freakin blown away. And it inspired you to learn the material, so that you could accomplish the same thing. Then you want to go show off your new skill to all your friends so that they get the same feeling as you did when you saw it.

But wait, maybe the reactions you're getting are not what you want. And you wish that you could get some better ones.

I think the problem with this is the constant copying of the performances seen by people like the Bucks

No offense to the Bucks, but the style they perform with is not meant to "wow" spectators.

How many videos have popped up lately that just involve a fancy control and a color change. "Ill take this card and leave it in the deck, if i take a different card, it changes... *drifts off into a dull low voice*" The style they perform with is meant to be for magicians. It involves no interaction whatsoever with the spectators and it makes you seem somewhat awkward if you perform that way for someone.

I'm sorry but the simple way of explaining what's happening throughout the trick (like said above) is no excuse for patter. If you simply copy the dull monotone voice of the Bucks for a spectator, it will leave them bored and it will get an "Oh, cool" type reaction. But take Tivo 2.0 for instance. If you simply perform this as they do, it will get a decent response because of the visualness of it. However, if you incorporate it into and exciting, interactive ACR, then the reactions you will get from your spectators will be so much better.

In the Bucks' performances, they are simply trying to get the point across about what's supposed to be happening in that particular effect. I do not believe that they are teaching it to be performed that way. The sleights that the Bucks come up with are absolutely phenomenal, but if you perform them as sleights, as they do, then you will not get the best reaction you could out of a spectator.

I believe Jordan Lapping has done a great job at dissecting the Bucks work and making them into a routine. For example, his Transpositionings video, and his Time Machine video. The bucks perform Deja Vu and the Molecule 2 single card production as sleights. Jordan Lapping takes those sleights and incorporates them into a routine. He doesn't perform them as just sleights. And Swiss Made. They perform this as a control and a change. Why? Because they are introducing two knew sleights to teach you. Is that what you're trying to do when you perform for a spectator? Of course not! Jordan takes this effect and puts some friendly patter into it to make it enjoyable for a non magician, and a magician to watch.

So next time, instead of just performing a Cascade control and a goat change, try sitting down and figuring out a way to make them into a routine that will be fun and interesting for a spectator.

Now, I have no problem with videos that people put out there that show there skill by doing controls, changes, and other sleights. I do enjoy seeing people's demonstration of skill. And in that situation it is okay to use the Bucks style because let's be honest, all you are trying to do is get the point across. You're not going for a magical experience, but more a demonstration of skill. However, if you perform for your spectators as a demonstration of skill, they will not understand and it will seem somewhat boring.

So then, if this is the only way you perform, can you really call yourself a magician? Or are you just a skilled hobbyist that wants to have the quickest, most deceiving hands. A skilled hobbyist worries about how well he can execute the hardest sleight. A magician worries about giving a spectator the best possible magical experience. And both types of people are fine, provided you call yourself and accept what you are.

So take a step back and think. Are you really a magician? Or just a skilled hobbyist. And if you're not either, which do you want to be. And how can you improve your skills to become a better magician? And I don't mean your hand dexterity Magic lately has become too much about executing and perfecting the hardest sleights. What happened to the sheer all around fun that magic is supposed to present?

peace

-Kevin

 

[Dmagic]

My thoughts

I agree. I get "cool" when I do their magic, but when I do ACR, people scream! I generally try to take some classic principals and apply them to that kind of magic. Like in subway, I ask what the name of their card was, and then turn it towards myself, smile, and reveal their card. I once did a test, and did subway the way the bucks do it, and then my way, and my way got 100 times better reactions. I think that people need to put their own personality into their magic.
-Dmagic

 

[chriswiehl]

I like the bucks slights and skill. I however, will most likely never use any of their tricks in the real world. The Laymen you perform to will be more or just as amazed by the biddle trick, or card to ceiling than any trick that dan and dave will perform
their material seem good to trick magicians.
if you watch any of my material that i perform, its all very easy stuff to do in front of audience members, that are hard to mess up. if i perform an erdanase change to a spectator, as opposed to the bus change or Polaroid change, the spectators will be just as impressed, and the erdanase is much much easier.

i, as a magician, appreciate the more complicated slights and the amount of time and effort put into those moves, but is it practical in the real world? not really. you can use duplicates of cards, and spectators will never even think of them, or a gimmick card or a plant. they will be fooled by those almost every time! no need for hard to master tricks.

 

[lunatic core]

Being highly exposed to yo-yo's, juggling, and diablo performers probably gives me a different perspective. I find the reactions to be way different, and based on different things. These types of entertainment are still really rewarding even without an audience though or in around other performers. Magic just hits differently. Respect things for what they are. I think people spend too much time trying to validate themselves by insulting other styles.

 

[speedypetey64]

I agree completely with chris

I do not perform any of the bucks' tricks either.
I may post a vid on them to show I can execute these sleights but not to perform for an audience.
The only trick of theirs that I would perform is hedbergs peak to mess with the spectators mind

otherwise biddle trick, this n that, and other simple, hard hitting and mostly impromptu tricks do the job well.

 

[KevinOwens]

I like the bucks slights and skill. I however, will most likely never use any of their tricks in the real world. The Laymen you perform to will be more or just as amazed by the biddle trick, or card to ceiling than any trick that dan and dave will perform
their material seem good to trick magicians.
if you watch any of my material that i perform, its all very easy stuff to do in front of audience members, that are hard to mess up. if i perform an erdanase change to a spectator, as opposed to the bus change or Polaroid change, the spectators will be just as impressed, and the erdanase is much much easier.

i, as a magician, appreciate the more complicated slights and the amount of time and effort put into those moves, but is it practical in the real world? not really. you can use duplicates of cards, and spectators will never even think of them, or a gimmick card or a plant. they will be fooled by those almost every time! no need for hard to master tricks.

Exactly! And not to say that their tricks and material cannot be used, I just do not think that their effects should be performed for spectators the way they perform for us.

Being highly exposed to yo-yo's, juggling, and diablo performers probably gives me a different perspective. I find the reactions to be way different, and based on different things. These types of entertainment are still really rewarding even without an audience though or in around other performers. Magic just hits differently. Respect things for what they are. I think people spend too much time trying to validate themselves by insulting other styles.

I believe you completely missed the point I was trying to make

-Kevin

 

[Ben Long]

Yes, yes, and yes.

 

[Dima]

The only trick of theirs that I would perform is hedbergs peak to mess with the spectators mind

Why would this be your main goal when performing ANY trick?

 

[Dima]

i, as a magician, appreciate the more complicated slights and the amount of time and effort put into those moves, but is it practical in the real world? not really. you can use duplicates of cards, and spectators will never even think of them, or a gimmick card or a plant. they will be fooled by those almost every time! no need for hard to master tricks.

But this isn't what the OP is talking about! He said DnD tricks are fine to perform and i agree with that. Just don't perform them the way they do because they are simply demonstrating the tricks and sleights. They're performing for the camera to showcase what we will learn.

It's almost like buying a film but only ever watching the trailer.

 

[bd]

people need to put their own personality into their magic.

You have possibly just posted the most intelligent and insightful comment I have seen in months.

A magic trick is just that-- a trick. Nobody gives a rat's ass about it. Pardon the language. We, as magicians, are supposed to make them care. We do that by being engaged with our audience and being sincere in our trick(s).

People - performers - need to put some freakin' personality into their performances (for REAL PEOPLE, NOT THE CAMERA) if they want an inkling of a good reaction. Be funny. Be stupid. Be silly. Make them laugh.


You're supposed to be an entertainer, aren't you?

==========

As for the tricks produced by the Buck twins, I would say that they (the Bucks) have very nice, "fresh" ideas on ways to present tricks - but that the presentations used by themselves is not suitable for the average spectator.

 

[aJohnson]

The Bucks don't intend for you to tuse there tricks, only take the sleights away from them to use in other tricks.

Things like card to mouth I love, it's visual and gets a great reaction.

 

[LuseifHo]

I agree with this statement
But I am one of the exception.
I started off with all the old classic stuff so only got into the Bucks material when I had a good enough basis.

 

[Toby]

Just take TA for example... The hardest thing on the set is "biddle steal" (sleight), and you can see the astonishment on peoples faces. There are silent reactions, laughter, screaming reactions etc. with basically no sleight at all...

 

[KevinOwens]

Just take TA for example... The hardest thing on the set is "biddle steal" (sleight), and you can see the astonishment on peoples faces. There are silent reactions, laughter, screaming reactions etc. with basically no sleight at all...

No matter how complicated the sleight, it all looks the same to the spectator.

-Kevin