Some Theory (Heh, get it?)

Aug 31, 2007
308
0
California
Part 1: Some Theory

“There is a difference between the spectator’s not knowing how something is done, versus his knowing that it cannot be done.” -Simon Aronson

I want to really dissect this quote in order to make a point.

Say you are performing for an audience and they catch you on something. You have flashed. Maybe it is just a palm that they saw. The kicker of the effect is that the card ends up in their wallet that had been in their pocket the whole time. Even though the spectator only saw the palmed card and not how it ended up in their wallet, they will most likely feel unsatisfied because they saw the palm. Why? I honestly do not know. (Example from Strong Magic, by Darwin Ortiz.)

What should you say when a spectator says, “ HEY! I saw that. I saw you holding the card”

Should your answer be:

Well, if you saw the palm, how did it get In your wallet?
Well, I’m sorry that you saw something, let me try to live it up with a better effect.
Umm, well, I’m sorry.

They don’t sound very good do they? The answer really depends on if you see magic as a very hard puzzle or if you see it as something that is completely impossible that has no explanation. Which do you think Magic should be? A puzzle? Or… True Magic?

It is a personal opinion that can only be answered by yourself.

---

Puzzle? Or real magic?

When you are watching a effect by a another magician, what usually goes through your mind? Probably something like this:
“Wow, that is amazing. Now how could that be done? A pass? Double lift?”
Am I close?

Remember that time when you were not a magician? You had no prior knowledge of how any of these miracles could have been done. You thought that these performers were doing real magic. Yeah, I know you remember. You had that feeling, that feeling of disbelief. The feeling that maybe, just maybe, magic can be real.

The question that you were probably thinking as a layman was this:
“Wow, that is amazing. Could there really be a way to do this?”
You had that sense of impossibility. You did not know if it was real or not. It could have been completely real. You did not know this man/woman. They gave you that magical feeling.

Since the spectator does not know if what you are doing is real, you have to make your effects that much more impossible. You have to create that illusion of real magic. That what you are doing is real. In order to do this, you must first believe that what you are doing is real. You have to KNOW that you are doing real magic and not some cheap puzzle. When you believe and show that to your spectators, they will believe in it also.

Believing that you are performing magic may sound silly. But once you do it, You will get reactions UN-heard of. The spectators will start to question if you are actually doing what you say you are doing and soon enough, they will believe.

BUT, you cannot just “puzzle” someone. Magic is much more than that.
How many magician friends do you know? Either in real life or online. Probably a few. Most of your magician friends will choose to settle for the easiest path for a magic effect. They will do what looks cool or is the easiest way to do something. They probably won’t work into a effect, they probably will settle for an OK performance. The probably won’t think about there magic. They probably just perform whatever they think is “in” at the time. They will settle to perform “puzzles.”

But you won’t settle for the easiest. You will not settle to perform “puzzles.” You want to perform real magic. You are going to go out of your way. You are going to do everything you can to make true magic. You will. How do I know, right? Because, you want to perform real magic instead of puzzles. You are going to get rid of everything that “screams” puzzle. You will add everything that you find magical to add to the effect.
Everything you say will sound magical. You will be magic. You will be a real magician.

You are going to grow from being a puzzler to a magician. Today, you are going to believe that you can do this and you will. You have the confidence. You have the man-power. You just have to work.
Once this is done, you will be a real magician.

---

Belief

Most magicians will refuse to show their magic as real magic. They think it is stupid to think that up to date audiences will believe in magic. They think audiences will not believe in magic as a literal thing. They will refuse to believe in their own magic for that same very reason. They are puzzlers. They create small puzzles for audiences to figure out. This is not magic.

Here is an example to make my point:

Let’s say you are watching a movie or a play. A fictional one at that. Do you honestly believe that what you are watching is real? Look at the play, Peter Pan. People go to see plays to be entertained, to want to see something that they know is fake, but believe that it is real. Even for a small amount of time. People know that Peter is not really flying. They know that all of the characters are just actors playing a role. They know that there are wires and special effects, but the audience has to forget about all of that to believe in it. They forget that flying isn’t possible and they forget that the characters are actors and actresses.

The same goes for a magicians performance. Say you are doing a levitation or making a bill float. The spectator knows that you aren’t really levitating or making things float. The audiences intellect tells them that. BUT his senses and emotions are telling them that, yeah, this guy really is floating or the bill really is floating.

You know what? Forget about trying to create that sense of disbelief. Get your audience to believe that your magic is real. There is nothing wrong with doing this. Some magicians think that it is wrong to “trick” your audience into believing that your magic is real when this is not the case. We aren’t tricking them into anything. The audience has the choice of wanting to believe or not.

Your audience has a big part in creating your magic. Most laymen have the intellect to know that you aren’t really doing real magic. But they have to desire to want to believe that it is real. It is basically impossible to get your audience to believe that what you are doing is real, intellectually. BUT you can make your audience believe that it is real magic, emotionally. ALL magic is responded through the emotions, not the intellect.

Have you ever noticed that after you perform and ask the audience exactly what they saw that they usually over-exaggerate? Your spectators are not trying to tell you what had happened, they are trying to describe the emotions that they felt when they saw it.

Again, it is impossible to prove to an audience that what you are doing is real intellectually. Why? Because your audiences are not dumb. They are just too smart. They will always have that thought in the back of there mind that what you are doing is not real magic. That you are not really reading there mind and you are not really floating. BUT when your presentations are aimed at hitting their emotions, than their emotions will over run their intellect and they may just believe that you are doing real magic.

---

Talking to long: Emotional Memory

Patter is a huge part of a magic effect. It either makes it, or breaks it.
But, some magicians patter for so long that the audience forgets about the main effect.

Try this:

Get a coin or small object. Do a French drop. Now, pretend to hold it in your hand and patter for about 10 seconds. Than show that the coin has vanished.

After that, go to a different audience and try this:

Get a coin or small object. Do a French drop. Now, pretend to hold it in your hand and patter for about 1 minute. Than show that the coin has vanished.

Which got the better reaction?

You will find out that the patter for only 10 seconds will get the better reaction. By the time you are done with the 1 minute patter the audience will forget about the coin anyways! Sure, the audience knows intellectually that you placed the coin in your hand. Yet, emotionally, they half forget that the coin is in your hand.

The more time between you placing the coin "in your hand" to you speaking to the opening of your hand the less of a reaction you will get.

Say you are performing the effect Triumph. You have this huge patter line after you mix up the cards face up and face down. Than, after your huge patter line that you have just said, you show the deck to be face down, except one card. You probably won't get much of a reaction. Why?
The audience only half-remembers (emotionally) that you shuffled the deck face up and face down.

Everyone knows what a ACR is right? Well if not, the effect is basically that a signed card keeps coming to the top of the deck in an impossible fashion. That's about it. I've seen tons of ACRs so far in my (very short) life span and so far, most of them aren’t that amazing. Yeah, the card keeps coming to the top of the deck.

Continued...
 
Aug 31, 2007
308
0
California
Continued...

Who cares?

Most of the ACRs that I have seen have a very strong beginning. So far so good, but it only gets weaker as the card keeps coming up. Try to make it so that it's the exact opposite. Make it so the beginning is weak, and then moves up to your strongest point in your ACR.

Too much time between the effect and the "kicker" can break the effect. But also, too little time can break the effect. If you are doing a coin change, and cover the original coin but immediately after you cover the coin, you move your hand away to show the new coin. That can break the effect. It sounds like a very quick change? Well yeah, it does, but this may give the audience time to really figure out what had happened if they backtrack.

OR

If you do the same as above, but with cards it can break the magic. You have a double lift. You show the double and turn it back over and immediately show that the card has now changed. Cool, but not too much magic in there. Spectators will realize what had happened and know that the original card is still on the top of the deck. They aren’t stupid.
But if you do the same as above but this time, instead of immediately showing the card different, rub it on the table for a few seconds. Than slowly, effortlessly, turn the card over to show that it had changed. There is no way the audience will figure that out. It gives the time needed for the audience to feel the magic.

---


Creating your true magic effect.

Most magicians say that they do not know how to create magic effects. Maybe they have not tried or maybe the have some creativity problems.
That is complete and udder rubbish.

Anyone can create a hard hitting magic effect. ANYONE. You just have to set you mind to it. If you have the confidence to know that you are creating a great effect, than you will. You have to use your creativity. Yeah, sounds like a big headache. Well, it is. It is tuff. But you will get through it. Soon you will have a whole routine of your own effects. After you make your first effect, than ideas will just flow out of your head.

How great would that be? Pretty great.

Remember, the only great effect is the one that you create by yourself.

But how? Here’s how:

Your going to have to really think. If you could do ANY effect, absolutely anything, what would it be? Do not worry about how impossible it sounds, just keep going with it. Get out a paper and pen and write down the first idea. Do not think about anything else. This is going to be your first project.
Re-read the question. If you could do ANYTHING what would it be?

ANYTHING. You have a choice. It doesn’t matter how impossible it sounds, or how stupid it sounds, write it down. Do not let anything hold you back. Draw a picture of it being done if you want to. Anything so that you can read or see the effect.

Now, think this. How could this effect be done? There are so many methods to anything. Do not worry about how much it may cost, or if it will be impromptu or have a gimmick. Do not think about any problems you may occur in the future yet. You do not even care about that stuff yet. We do not care how much work it will take to put into this one effect, you are going to do whatever it takes. Write down your first method.

The methods will not come to you immediately. It can take weeks even months to get just one method. That’s ok. It takes a lot of time and effort to create a hard hitting magic effect.

Brainstorm methods and methods until you have 8-10 methods. THAN you are going to see which work and which do not for an audience. If it needs a gimmick, make it, if not than practice the method. When ready, go out and perform each method for a different audience each. Write down the ones that get the most reactions. Write down everything that you noticed, goods and bads, about each effect. You want this information.

Now, get rid of the worst 3 methods that you have. Go back over your list that have the pros and cons of each effect. See which ones you like the most. See which ones that you feel comfortable with. If you are not comfortable you can trash it. You do not have to perform something that you are not comfortable with.

Do not rush any of this! Great effects take a lot of time. You have to be patient and put the time into it that each effect deserves.
Soon, you will have the method (s) that work the best for YOU.

Hope you liked these!

Keenan

A note to the reader.: Most of the information/examples that are written in this thread/post of mine can be find in the book: Strong Magic, by Darwin Ortiz. For more info on these subjects look into this book. It is an amazing read and packed with information. I reccomend it for ANY and ALL magicians. Also look into Absolute Magic by Derren Brown, and Designing Miracles by Mr. Ortiz.

Thanks!
 
Aug 31, 2007
308
0
California
Ah, by the way guys,

If you have not read the following books, first, slap yourself in the face, than go out and buy one. Read it, a few times and come back and post your thoughts:

Strong Magic

Maximum Entertainment

Absolute Magic

Designing Miracles


I just finished up Designing Miracles, and well, I can say that it is just as good as Strong Magic. Much to learn in these four books.

I strongly advise you to buy them. You will not be sorry.

Keenan
 
Keenan, Keenan, Keenan... What will I do with you? Making me read a long informative essay on a Saturday, well actually Sunday, at 2 AM. It's funny how many people reply to the "short" threads, yet the two post monsters get overlooked.

Just like the ACR, I'm going to work backwards.

Creating magic doesn't have to be an original effect, creating a piece of magic could be designing and developing a routine, or even simply making an existing effect your own. If you create a routine based around an already existing effect or if you are writing patter for an effect, you are creating magic. Because magic doesn't come from the tricks, magic doesn't come from the cards, coins, etc. Magic comes from the performer and how he/she presents the effect to give magic to the trick. To give life to the effect.

Exaggerating a trick or patter will only lead to terrible things for the performer. People often drag out their patter for god knows what reason. If the performer enjoys their patter, then I believe they shouldn't wait for the patter to be over to show the climax, but they should show it as the patter is going on. This can add a sort of rhythm to the performance and really enhance a long, tedious one. Most spectators simply don't care about the patter, especially in street magic. I mean, they want to see the magic, so as performers we must learn how to integrate the patter with the magic so the spectators can grasp everything they see and hear. If the patter is long and dragged out they will start to use their logic and intellect to try and figure out where the coin is going and many methods.

Magic should never be considered a puzzle for spectators, because many people OFTEN get frustrated by puzzles, and it would be terrible for a spectator to feel the same way about your magic. When I go out to perform magic, my main goal isn't to fool the spectators, it's to entertain. If I can properly entertain my audience, my goal is complete. I entertain with my magic, my magic is always there to entertain, not to fool, trick, or PWN my spectator's mind with mad 1337 skillz.

Hope I made sense.

Mitchell
 
Aug 31, 2007
308
0
California
Keenan, Keenan, Keenan... What will I do with you? Making me read a long informative essay on a Saturday, well actually Sunday, at 2 AM. It's funny how many people reply to the "short" threads, yet the two post monsters get overlooked.

I know, it is crazy isn't it? Just like with some of the best books out there... People seem to be getting lazier and lazier. :)


Just like the ACR, I'm going to work backwards.

Creating magic doesn't have to be an original effect, creating a piece of magic could be designing and developing a routine, or even simply making an existing effect your own. If you create a routine based around an already existing effect or if you are writing patter for an effect, you are creating magic. Because magic doesn't come from the tricks, magic doesn't come from the cards, coins, etc. Magic comes from the performer and how he/she presents the effect to give magic to the trick. To give life to the effect.

Exactly,

Anyone who knows a guy by the name of Armando Lucero, raise your hand. Many of you will most likely not raise your hands. The first effect I saw this man perform, was at LVMI this past year. It was a matrix routine. What he had did was that he took this matrix routine, and made it magic. He choreographed it to music, he changed it, for the most part, and he made it his own. I don't think I know of anyone else who can perform a coin matrix routine the way he did. Steve was there, ask him.


Exaggerating a trick or patter will only lead to terrible things for the performer. People often drag out their patter for god knows what reason. If the performer enjoys their patter, then I believe they shouldn't wait for the patter to be over to show the climax, but they should show it as the patter is going on. This can add a sort of rhythm to the performance and really enhance a long, tedious one. Most spectators simply don't care about the patter, especially in street magic. I mean, they want to see the magic, so as performers we must learn how to integrate the patter with the magic so the spectators can grasp everything they see and hear. If the patter is long and dragged out they will start to use their logic and intellect to try and figure out where the coin is going and many methods.

I agree, but than there is also the problem that many don't use any patter at all. I don't mean in a silently choreographed routine to music... I mean they just don't know what to say, so the only thing they will say is, "watch." "Did you see that?" "Yes." Well, they are most likely watching, so they most likely did see it. Yes.
It is ok to talk to your audience. They are not going to eat you, unlike Dana, who will eat you. I advice anyone to take a speech class in highschool or a drama class. This will help you and your magic.


Magic should never be considered a puzzle for spectators, because many people OFTEN get frustrated by puzzles, and it would be terrible for a spectator to feel the same way about your magic. When I go out to perform magic, my main goal isn't to fool the spectators, it's to entertain. If I can properly entertain my audience, my goal is complete. I entertain with my magic, my magic is always there to entertain, not to fool, trick, or PWN my spectator's mind with mad 1337 skillz.

Hope I made sense.

Mitchell

EXACTLY. Puzzles frustrate people. Puzzles make people want to figure them out. If you have a way to entertain with puzzles, sure, go ahead and use them. But that just isn't how "I roll". My goal is to perform magic for the audience. My role models are people like Lucero, Vigil, and the many others that many people have no idea who they are but are performing around the world for the biggest names that no one has heard of... and the biggest names everyone has heard of. These are the guys that work, day and night, to get there magic, to be magic.

Keenan
 
I really enjoyed that, and if I didn't have band practice, would write a rather lengthy reply.

That was a phenominally helpful post. Thank you, and I will put serious thought into my reply when I return in a few hours.
 

Brewery Rabbit

Elite Member
Aug 31, 2007
931
6
33
Poulsbo, Wa
Keenan.
I just browsed through this.
And just by browsing it has given me vital information.
Unfortunatly I have a halloween show i need to go do.
SO when i get back, i will read it and leave you with my thoughts.

~Jordan
 
All right, now I want to take a look first at your outlook on making magic FEEL like magic. That is easier said than done. If you walk up to a person on the street and ask if they would like to see something cool, they reply with a yes (hopefully). A mysterious stranger has walked up to them, performed a few miracles and, in a flash, is gone form their life. That, to me, would seem like real magic. That is the easy half. Say you are at a party with some close friends. They ask you to bust out a deck of cards and perform some of these miracles. You show them your latest, they have no idea how you did it but, based on past events (say you reveal the trick to a few close friends, or they catch tricks in the planning stage) they know its not real. You can't simply convince them otherwise at that point. The conflict here is that you either stop making it look like real magic for them, or you stop performing for them. The idea that it is a puzzle to be solved is, in my opinion, not so much frustrating and confusing for the spectators, but more for me as a magician. It causes me to be torn between two halves. The down side is, the chances of 5 believers convincing one non believer are astronomically slim and yet 1 non believer can blow it for 10 fully convinced onlookers.

That brings me to what you said about the audience being too smart to believe. I think that is giving the world too much credit. Honestly. People ARE smart. They, for the most part, won't believe unless you follow the things you said in your post. On the other hand though, if you have an effect, that truly defies scientific law, you can make anyone believe. Most people think that the population of our world will believe what they see. I think the population of our world will believe what they experience. If you take a simple, hard hitting effect, and perform it, it is still simple and the audience will not believe. They will freak and try to solve your puzzle. That is why I suggest opening with something truly, truly, IMPOSSIBLE.

Make them believe at the start and they will believe at the end. Unless, just like you said, you blow it in your patter. Honestly, patter is a work of art in itself. You don't want to look like an idiot over hyping a simple card change by pattering it for 30 seconds. You want it to happen after a simple magical gesture. That is subject to opinion unfortunately. On the emotional memory section I completely agree with you. All the way. Don't blow the patter by overhyping. Under hyping can be a good thing sometimes but only in moderation and for god sakes, don't take too long.

Creating your own effects.

Agh
I suck at this. Not going to lie to you. The effects I have created are a great 4 card transpo (4 Aces are placed under a card box, 4 random cards are withdrawn, 1 by 1 are turned into the aces and the cards under the box are revealed to be the 4 kings rather then the aces) and a really really effective coin to factory sealed bottle. (Unfortunately it is limited to only 1 kind of bottle and it is an opaque bottle)

By my descriptions you can see I am kind of crummy at creation. I am getting better but despite that my efforts often fall short. Rather than give my thoughts here I will give a humble thank you for your kind advice and bid you adeux.


I hope you enjoyed my reply.

Trent.
 

Brewery Rabbit

Elite Member
Aug 31, 2007
931
6
33
Poulsbo, Wa
Well keenan.
That is one of the most impressive things i have read on these forums so far.
It Had information,advice and tips in there for the youngins and the wisemen of magic.

I really need to look into getting those books.
I would love to see more of this.

I would also like to see some more from you.

Thank you so much for this.
Sadly i am out of ink, But i will be printing this.
Keep it with my books and notes, So i have something to go back to fo radvice and just a great read.

Thanks once again keenan.

Take care

~Jordan
 
Aug 31, 2007
308
0
California
All right, now I want to take a look first at your outlook on making magic FEEL like magic. That is easier said than done. If you walk up to a person on the street and ask if they would like to see something cool, they reply with a yes (hopefully). A mysterious stranger has walked up to them, performed a few miracles and, in a flash, is gone form their life. That, to me, would seem like real magic. That is the easy half. Say you are at a party with some close friends. They ask you to bust out a deck of cards and perform some of these miracles. You show them your latest, they have no idea how you did it but, based on past events (say you reveal the trick to a few close friends, or they catch tricks in the planning stage) they know its not real. You can't simply convince them otherwise at that point. The conflict here is that you either stop making it look like real magic for them, or you stop performing for them. The idea that it is a puzzle to be solved is, in my opinion, not so much frustrating and confusing for the spectators, but more for me as a magician. It causes me to be torn between two halves. The down side is, the chances of 5 believers convincing one non believer are astronomically slim and yet 1 non believer can blow it for 10 fully convinced onlookers.


Your friends do know that what you do isn't "real". But that doesn't mean you can't give them the feeling that it is real. They may know that it is all sleights and such, but my job isn't to make them believe I am actual magic. It is to make them feel that what is happening is magic. Believing, and feeling are two different things.

I think it takes years and A LOT of hard work to get to the point of creating the feeling of real magic. That is something that hopefully many of the members here strive for... that is something that I strive for.

That brings me to what you said about the audience being too smart to believe. I think that is giving the world too much credit. Honestly. People ARE smart. They, for the most part, won't believe unless you follow the things you said in your post. On the other hand though, if you have an effect, that truly defies scientific law, you can make anyone believe. Most people think that the population of our world will believe what they see. I think the population of our world will believe what they experience. If you take a simple, hard hitting effect, and perform it, it is still simple and the audience will not believe. They will freak and try to solve your puzzle. That is why I suggest opening with something truly, truly, IMPOSSIBLE.

What do you mean by simple? Can you give an example of an effect that is simple, hard hitting but won't give your spectators a feeling of magic? I know there are many, but I want to know what you are thinking.


Make them believe at the start and they will believe at the end. Unless, just like you said, you blow it in your patter. Honestly, patter is a work of art in itself. You don't want to look like an idiot over hyping a simple card change by pattering it for 30 seconds. You want it to happen after a simple magical gesture. That is subject to opinion unfortunately. On the emotional memory section I completely agree with you. All the way. Don't blow the patter by overhyping. Under hyping can be a good thing sometimes but only in moderation and for god sakes, don't take too long.

True, but, you can have an AMAZING effect at the beginning, and the rest are crap. I guarantee they won't "believe" by the end of the routine. That is where good routining comes into hand. Good routining = good magic. On the other hand, good presentation = Good Magic. Don't talk to much. But also, don't talk to less. You don't want to have this great, huge effect but you don't talk at all in the effect.


Creating your own effects.

Agh
I suck at this. Not going to lie to you. The effects I have created are a great 4 card transpo (4 Aces are placed under a card box, 4 random cards are withdrawn, 1 by 1 are turned into the aces and the cards under the box are revealed to be the 4 kings rather then the aces) and a really really effective coin to factory sealed bottle. (Unfortunately it is limited to only 1 kind of bottle and it is an opaque bottle)

By my descriptions you can see I am kind of crummy at creation. I am getting better but despite that my efforts often fall short. Rather than give my thoughts here I will give a humble thank you for your kind advice and bid you adeux.


I hope you enjoyed my reply.

Trent.


No worries. It can take years to create an effect and work with it enough to have a great effect. Take the time to work with it and it will pay off.

Thanks for the thoughts!

Keenan
 
Aug 31, 2007
308
0
California
Well keenan.
That is one of the most impressive things i have read on these forums so far.
It Had information,advice and tips in there for the youngins and the wisemen of magic.

I really need to look into getting those books.
I would love to see more of this.

I would also like to see some more from you.

Thank you so much for this.
Sadly i am out of ink, But i will be printing this.
Keep it with my books and notes, So i have something to go back to fo radvice and just a great read.

Thanks once again keenan.

Take care

~Jordan

Mr. Jordan,

Thank you very much, it means a lot to me to see that people are learning from what I preach here... And it is an honor for you to say the things you have said.

As for the books, I really advise you to pick up a few of them. They will change the way you look at magic, or atleast have a big effect on it. I know they did for me.

Thanks again,

Keenan
 
Sep 1, 2007
30
0
Keenan, this is amazing. You stated everything that's been on my mind lately.
I'd just like to add 2 things:

1: People WANT toe be fooled. I know every famous magician has said this a thousand times but I have to say it again; People WANT to be fooled. Even when they know the trick is fake I get asked loads of times if it's REAL (more on that in a sec) magic or not. They (inside their mind) plead to be fooled! They WANT to think that it's REAL magic, and who are we, the magicians, to deny them of that want? Aren't we here to please? To entertain?

2: I thought about something that will solve all this thing about not wanting to "lie" to the spec about it being REAL magic:


Define REAL magic..... Think before you answer yourself....
Let's see how Mr. Dictionary defines Magician: :eek:ne who performs tricks of illusion and sleight of hand".... Now do you understand what I'm trying to say? It's all an illusion all this business about REAL magic. What we magicians do is REAL magic! Just because magic is Presentation, Sleight of Hand and Gimmicks doesn't mean it isn't real magic!! That's what REAL magic is! Illusions!!



Just my three cents

-Brundo
 
Oct 6, 2007
612
0
Keenan,

I know exacty what you mean when you say its how you present the magic. For example, if you were doing the pass in an ACR- making it a puzzle would be saying soemthing like.."Did you see the move?..I just did the move..etc."

Saying this would just make the spectator believe it is NOT true magic but just sleight of hand. I'm just wondering, what kinds of things COULD you say to make it seem like REAL MAGIC.

On another note, if you were performing some tricks, and in between them, or IN them you did some flourishes..do you think that this would make the spectator think that what you are doing is more sleight of hand rather than magic? Since you can handle cards so well, they might just think you are doing 'moves'.
 
Aug 31, 2007
308
0
California
Keenan, this is amazing. You stated everything that's been on my mind lately.
I'd just like to add 2 things:

Thanks for the comments =)


1: People WANT toe be fooled. I know every famous magician has said this a thousand times but I have to say it again; People WANT to be fooled. Even when they know the trick is fake I get asked loads of times if it's REAL (more on that in a sec) magic or not. They (inside their mind) plead to be fooled! They WANT to think that it's REAL magic, and who are we, the magicians, to deny them of that want? Aren't we here to please? To entertain?:

Exactly. There is something in the human mind that wants to believe its real. There is just something in people that want to believe that something like that is possible. I don't know why. Maybe because its amazing. Maybe because people need reassurance that there is always something more to life. Something Amazing.

I believe that that is why people react to what we do. People can freak out when we perform something very simple. Why? Maybe because of the above reasons. Maybe it is because of something we don't even know. Maybe...

But yes, I agree with you, although I would word it as people want to believe. Not exactly fooled, but Yes, I understand what you are saying.

2: I thought about something that will solve all this thing about not wanting to "lie" to the spec about it being REAL magic:


Define REAL magic..... Think before you answer yourself....
Let's see how Mr. Dictionary defines Magician: :eek:ne who performs tricks of illusion and sleight of hand".... Now do you understand what I'm trying to say? It's all an illusion all this business about REAL magic. What we magicians do is REAL magic! Just because magic is Presentation, Sleight of Hand and Gimmicks doesn't mean it isn't real magic!! That's what REAL magic is! Illusions!!

You don't have to even say it's magic. You don't have to answer when they ask if it's real or not. I say "Well, what do you think? It is up to you." They usually don't say anything after this and think about it for a little before we move on to more of the magic.



Just my three cents

-Brundo

Thanks for your three cents!

Keenan
 
Aug 31, 2007
308
0
California
Keenan,

I know exacty what you mean when you say its how you present the magic. For example, if you were doing the pass in an ACR- making it a puzzle would be saying soemthing like.."Did you see the move?..I just did the move..etc."

Saying this would just make the spectator believe it is NOT true magic but just sleight of hand. I'm just wondering, what kinds of things COULD you say to make it seem like REAL MAGIC.

Exactly. It will put the thought into the audiences mind that there is a move to the "thing" you are doing. It moves from magic to a technical card sleight that the audience cannot see. I see many magicians do this and I ask them about it. They say, "Well, the situation keeps getting impossible. Making it magic."

No.

The audience will find any solution, no matter how crazy their "solution" is. Say you are doing an ACR and end with a one handed type of closer. The card goes in, one handed, and you flick your hand and its on top. One handed. Even though it is virtually impossible to cut the cards in less than a second, especially with one hand... the audience will believe that is what happens.

Not magic, just fast sleights... to the audience.

As for what you could say to make it seem like magic... Well, it really depends on the effect and presentation and such. Generally, I find not saying anything about it being real magic, and just performing the effect normaly. In quiet situations, instead of saying, did you see the move? Or such, just keep quiet. The audience will ask you about it. Don't worry.

On another note, if you were performing some tricks, and in between them, or IN them you did some flourishes..do you think that this would make the spectator think that what you are doing is more sleight of hand rather than magic? Since you can handle cards so well, they might just think you are doing 'moves'.

Personally, I won't do any of these "hardcorexxx" cuts and such. ;) I find a simple fan and riffle and such will do.

It seems to me, any crazy cut or something can take away from the magic. Makes you look too good. But, it is completely up to you. Think about it, test everything out and see what YOU like the best.

Thanks,

Keenan
 
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