Some thoughts?

[scarecrow1]

Some thoughts?.....

Alright, this has been on my mind for quite a while now, so I decided to make a post on it. I hope you see were I'm coming from.

So I believe one of the biggest problems with magic now days is that there is no such thing as "hard work". People don't realize that it takes hard, grueling work to be good. It's really a problem with anybody now days, not just magicians, but that's a different topic, not for a magic forum.

Let me use a demonstration to get my point across. The G.O.A.T. change. It's a ground breaking change in it's own way, as it really is child proof (Chad Nelson style...). It's angle proof. A great change when done well. But here's the thing...how often do you here people saying it's unreliable, or it's obvious. I know I've heard that a LOT. Before the change became public, people talked about how it was one of the best changes out there, and how amazing it was. Now I only hear complaining. Why?...it's a simple question deserving a simple answer...because it's hard. I've been working on this change for a while now, and I've found it's actually quite reliable despite what people say. I analyzed the move (as I think everyone should do on any move) and I found the sleight nuances that weren't taught on the DVD. I learned how to make it reliable.

Now because these nuances were not taught on the DVD, people don't learn them right away (obviously). Now people work on the change every now and then, and find that they can never be accurate with it. They don't take the time to have an understanding of the change. Because of this lack of work, people diss the change, saying it's obvious and not reliable.

Now the point of this is because I hope to inspire people to work hard on things, and not expect them to come so quickly. Really study the move, and learn its ins and outs.

An important part when learning something new is to go in with a positive attitude. So often we here people talking about how a move is so hard, and takes "forever" to learn. If we go in with a negative attitude because of this, we aren't going to put all our efforts into the sleight/effect, because we think it's going to take forever to learn it anyway. I always learn a new effect with a positive attitude, not knowing how long it will take to learn.

I'm a huge believer in individualism, so I love working on moves/effects nobody else does, or think they're too hard (Ginastaire double, G.O.A.T. change, ect.). I think people (because of the lack of hard work) don't work on effects correctly. They just "do" them over and over wondering why they aren't getting anywhere. They just do what the guys in the book or DVD do, saying the same patter, having the same style. I can't tell you how many times I see guys on Youtube (funny, it's almost a derogatory term in the magical realm) acting JUST like the Buck twins. Same style, same patter, same tricks, you name it. They aren't willing to put the work into creating their own style, their own patter, and what have you.

So again, I'll repeat what I said above. I hope this inspires some guys to really work hard on effects, and really understand it.


Tell me if this wasn't coherent, and I'll try to make it more understandable.

Peace

 

[SKSleighofHand]

Extraordinary sleights takes time and practise. When we see moves that are too difficult to accomplish, we easily give them up. Thanks for reminding me of how much I should work onto hard sleights and to be patient with it.

 

[MillionaireMike]

Everyone who has their heart in magic will work hard for it, I don't think your post will change someone's mind and to go and say "tricks take practice" is kinda lame... I mean everyone knows that it takes a lot of hard work to get it perfect (and no I'm not one who "gives up" cause they are too lazy).

PS your signature has a spelling mistake

 

[scarecrow1]

Everyone who has their heart in magic will work hard for it, I don't think your post will change someone's mind and to go and say "tricks take practice" is kinda lame... I mean everyone knows that it takes a lot of hard work to get it perfect (and no I'm not one who "gives up" cause they are too lazy).

PS your signature has a spelling mistake

I guess what I really want to get across is that people shouldn't diss something just because it's deemed hard or "it doesn't work" or "it's unreliable". Don't believe what every body says about moves/effects.

 

[MillionaireMike]

Yea I guess that makes more sense, that you shouldn't be so judgmental of a trick/sleight until you have taken the time to actually master it and try it out yourself. I guess its like flourishes, the first time you do one you drop some cards and struggle to do even the first half but with a bit of practice you can get it smooth looking every time.

 

[Morgan B]

I don't necessarily disagree with you here, as I do think the difficulty of sleights shouldn't be a consideration of why you do or don't do something.

However, I do want to state that the GOAT change does have issues, and looking at a sleight critically is important. It doesn't matter how hard you work at it, if their are certain traits of the sleight that make it weak.

For example, the GOAT change method has angle issues, and can lack motivation in positioning and reason for outjogging the card. There can be further issues, even with great practice, the visual nature of the method is not "invisible". It is a nice change on camera, and perhaps in the right situation.

I think in your example, you confuse critical thinking with laziness - however, your intentions are noble. I do agree that the sleight shouldn't be avoided - as I practice many things I may never use.

Good writing.

 

[scarecrow1]

I don't necessarily disagree with you here, as I do think the difficulty of sleights shouldn't be a consideration of why you do or don't do something.

However, I do want to state that the GOAT change does have issues, and looking at a sleight critically is important. It doesn't matter how hard you work at it, if their are certain traits of the sleight that make it weak.

For example, the GOAT change method has angle issues, and can lack motivation in positioning and reason for outjogging the card. There can be further issues, even with great practice, the visual nature of the method is not "invisible". It is a nice change on camera, and perhaps in the right situation.

I think in your example, you confuse critical thinking with laziness - however, your intentions are noble. I do agree that the sleight shouldn't be avoided - as I practice many things I may never use.

Good writing.

Haha, yea, I still have a lot to learn. I'm certainly not the best at putting my thoughts in writing either

Thanks for every ones comments so far. Let's keep em' coming.

 

[CorbinB]

Funny, I just made a thread about the top shot...haha. Anyways I find this post very true. I also like to learn the more difficult, less popular, moves. I have heard many people complain about the goat change so good example. People don't seem to realize that if they sit down with determination to do something, that they will eventually get it down. Everything takes time. Some things just take more time.

 

[scarecrow1]

I don't necessarily disagree with you here, as I do think the difficulty of sleights shouldn't be a consideration of why you do or don't do something.

However, I do want to state that the GOAT change does have issues, and looking at a sleight critically is important. It doesn't matter how hard you work at it, if their are certain traits of the sleight that make it weak.

For example, the GOAT change method has angle issues, and can lack motivation in positioning and reason for outjogging the card. There can be further issues, even with great practice, the visual nature of the method is not "invisible". It is a nice change on camera, and perhaps in the right situation.

I think in your example, you confuse critical thinking with laziness - however, your intentions are noble. I do agree that the sleight shouldn't be avoided - as I practice many things I may never use.

Good writing.

Just thought I'd add something. I agree the G.O.A.T. change has it's problems, but what change doesn't? Magic is really situational. No matter how much some people don't want to believe it, every thing in our repertoires can't be performed in any situation. It's the magician's job to access the situation and see what he can or can't use.

 

[canadamagic]

Needless to say magic does take time and dedication. If you don't have this your magic will show it. You only get what you put out. There are always the people that will work their hardest on the effects that they learn regardless for what it is. Like wise there will always be people that won't work very hard and will frown apon the effect because they aren't getting the results they want. IT depends on the person.

 

[Morgan B]

Well put Scarecrow.

I guess the question people ask next is - If I know my venue is real world, and not videos, than I want to prepare with the sleights that offer me the most flexibility, are angle efficient, and look natural, then I don't want to learn every sleight, as I would rather master those that I will use and offer the most flexiblity. There are too many sleights to try to master all of them.

So, even though I would agree - all sleights are designed for a purpose and work well in certain situations, and that I don't want to see people NOT do sleights because they are too hard...I also don't want to see them waste time on sleights that don't help their magic.

When people say it is inconsistent, or has angle problems - perhaps this is just their way of saying that it doesn't fit their venue or is not worth mastering. I played with Ray's Rise for awhile...until I realized that the amount of tricks/versatility with the difficulty weren't worth the pay off.

 

[LuseifHo]

I agree that a lot of magicians nowadays are very lazy. But the thing is, soon they will give up the art and move on as they will get to a point where there isnt much else that is "easy". This will leave only the dedicated and the skilled, which sort of improves the "magic gene pool" if you get what Im saying.
But I disagree with your statement about needing to learn all those moves and sleights. I took a single look at the Ginastaire and gave up on it. When will I ever use a twirl like that? Im not a flourisher so magic is my main priority. What use will twirly a double card like that have when Im performing. All it will get is "oh cool" or even a few suspicious looks. I rather agree that you only need to practice what you like and what is practical, not every newest and hardest move out there. I practiced the Clipshift for 80% and decided that it was unecessary. My hand was too small and I much rathered the Top Palm.

 

[scarecrow1]

I agree that a lot of magicians nowadays are very lazy. But the thing is, soon they will give up the art and move on as they will get to a point where there isnt much else that is "easy". This will leave only the dedicated and the skilled, which sort of improves the "magic gene pool" if you get what Im saying.
But I disagree with your statement about needing to learn all those moves and sleights. I took a single look at the Ginastaire and gave up on it. When will I ever use a twirl like that? Im not a flourisher so magic is my main priority. What use will twirly a double card like that have when Im performing. All it will get is "oh cool" or even a few suspicious looks. I rather agree that you only need to practice what you like and what is practical, not every newest and hardest move out there. I practiced the Clipshift for 80% and decided that it was unecessary. My hand was too small and I much rathered the Top Palm.

I agree that you shouldn't practice each and every move that is hard. I never made the statement that you should. I just said you shouldn't diss a move that others diss. If it doesn't fit your style or practicality, then by all means don't work on it. Work on something you will use.

 

[ianedson]

i agree, way too many people think theyre gonna learn something and make it perfect within 10 minutes of watching/reading it. the other problem is thatsince that is their mindset they go out and perform it.

 

[RikAllen]

I think a good reason for the lack of 'hard work' needed for any one effect, or the whole range of magic for some magicians is where they get their start. I own a 4th Edition copy of The Amateur Magician's Handbook by Henry Hay and after a short introduction of the author followed by a quick history-like section he starts the book off with

The purpose of this volume is to help you become a good magician: one who can entertain others as well as himself with the wonders he works

The book has 18 pages of 'theory' before one sleight is learned, the above quote is on page 1. The first sleights in the book are breaks (including a glimpse and a 'crimp') and then immediately into shifts.

Before this is the section, Hard Easy Tricks and Easy Hard Tricks. In it he explains the reason for putting the self working tricks over half-way through the book:

Some notion, at least, of magical acting can be taught in a book; but it takes time to sink in. The time required to memorize a self-working trick is not long enough.
The time required to learn a fairly simple sleight (a manual artifice) probably will be long enough for you to absorb the acting that goes with it.
In short, you can learn to do a moderately difficult trick well more easily than you can a perfectly easy trick. On a sleight of hand trick you can't skimp; on an easy trick the temptation is almost irresistible. You won't dare to show a feat of skill that is only half practiced-and this is one of the basic axioms in all conjuring.

He loved magic, and wants all of his readers too also. The problem with most beginner books and (nowadays) dvd's is they show tricks you can literally do minutes after watching or reading. That is where most new magicians got their starts. They were spoon-fed amazing effects and since then were conditioned to think that magic didn't have to be difficult. Practice isn't needed, so-and-so said I could perform this immediately.

When you start out with magic-made-easy and have moderate success it's hard to appreciate the time and effort that goes into moves as difficult as the classic pass. A lot of people think direction (I'm one of the guys who prefers direction over misdirection, don't get someone to look away from one point, it's better to interest them somewhere else) is enough to cover half-assed passes. And it might work, okay, does it mean you should stop working on the pass? No.

If anything practicing the pass will help you understand sleight of hand better, helping everything else you do. The GOAT isn't my style. I don't do many 'visual' color changes so it's not something I could see me using. Understanding that it is difficult to get reliable is enough for me to know why so many people shunned it right after they learned it. "It's too hard" "It doesn't work" "This book sucks, everything is really hard and not good" "It requires a setup" "You end dirty"

Excuses for lack of imagination, practice, and conviction. Imagination can solve many problems and even help in cleaning up or changing effects to your liking, practice can solve many technical problems and will make you a better magician, and conviction about who you are and what you want to achieve as a person (or magician) will lead you away from the rest of the world (magic community) and into your own happy little world of successes.




Just a few thoughts...Not quite sure if it even makes sense outside of my head.

 

[willabbotsm]

It's a ground breaking change in it's own way, as it really is child proof (Chad Nelson style...). It's angle proof. A great change when done well.

so is the Erdanse change. (the best change out there)

 

[scarecrow1]

so is the Erdanse change. (the best change out there)

I can't get over that change. It's one of the most well known classic color changes out there, and still the most practical change there is. Almost impossible to screw up with a little practice.

 

[willabbotsm]

I agree. After learning all of the new changes, and all of the old, I still go with the Erdnase-Houdini color change. It's angle-proof, practical, and looks great. You look like a beginner when you do it for magicians, but I don't care as laypeople are my audience, not magicians.

 

[scarecrow1]

Excuses for lack of imagination, practice, and conviction. Imagination can solve many problems and even help in cleaning up or changing effects to your liking, practice can solve many technical problems and will make you a better magician, and conviction about who you are and what you want to achieve as a person (or magician) will lead you away from the rest of the world (magic community) and into your own happy little world of successes.

Exactly. Thanks for writing that. I'm not as good at putting my ideas in writing.

 

[RikAllen]

Exactly. Thanks for writing that. I'm not as good at putting my ideas in writing.

No problem, I'm not quite sure if it was 100% on topic, but I do my best.

I can't get over that change. It's one of the most well known classic color changes out there, and still the most practical change there is. Almost impossible to screw up with a little practice.

It really is a great change. I really like one of his others that starts with two cards in the hand and changes them in the process of setting it down. There's at least one gem for everyone in that little book.