Sub Rosa Price

[j.bayme]

I don't want to fish for the answer (How is it done?) here: This technique sounds, by your various answers, like something I can accomplish with a special (punch), or a daub of roughing fluid. I will probably end up buying it ('cause, like one of my co-workers calls me, I'm somewhat of a "GearQueer"). So, convince me that I won't be buying just a new packaging of something I already have.

With a dab of roughing fluid, you wouldn't be able to have the spectator (especially not a magician!) examine and shuffle the deck - as much as they want, however they want. You also wouldn't be able to use the deck as you normally would for your other card magic routines. With Sub Rosa, you can.

You'll forget you even have this secret weapon, until the precise moment you choose to use it. It's that powerful and that deceptive. It's been kept a secret for close to a century, and there's a great reason: this is good.

Here's an uncut demo that we haven't posted anywhere else yet:

 

[Bryant_Tsu]

I don't want to fish for the answer (How is it done?) here: This technique sounds, by your various answers, like something I can accomplish with a special (punch), or a daub of roughing fluid. I will probably end up buying it ('cause, like one of my co-workers calls me, I'm somewhat of a (edited for language). So, convince me that I won't be buying just a new packaging of something I already have.

Well, because unlike your roughing fluid you can apply the Sub Rosa technique anywhere.

 

[Bryant_Tsu]

Here's an uncut demo that we haven't posted anywhere else yet:

Awesome video.

 

[RohanB]

I would love to get in on this action, based on the reviews and how awesome Jason England is (I have some of his other stuff), but I am from South Africa, buying and shipping it here would cost me almost R700 in total. That's a lot of money for us. Despite everyone saying you can't put a price on this, the fact of the matter is, if you are not earning US dollars you can put a price on some things. I know the issue has been hashed, but a DL only option would be awesome...

 

[MarcoLostSomething]

I would love to get in on this action, based on the reviews and how awesome Jason England is (I have some of his other stuff), but I am from South Africa, buying and shipping it here would cost me almost R700 in total. That's a lot of money for us. Despite everyone saying you can't put a price on this, the fact of the matter is, if you are not earning US dollars you can put a price on some things. I know the issue has been hashed, but a DL only option would be awesome...

I know, i have already gave my voice to get the T11 staff to at least consider the download version.
Nothing happened, they justified the choice by saying it's better to have professional made decks to practise with.
I partially understand the point, it's also cool to have decks and custom package that enhance the completeness of the product, BUT there are also other stuff in consideration.
And the excessive price of shipping for the international clients are way too high. This is of course is a problem of distance, but can be fixed if the staff starts putting in the costumer's shoes.
I started my journey in magic even before T11 was born, and i would like to study magic and amplify my knowledge, but at the same time i don't have too much money to throw to the US postal service (and considering that the base price, worth or not, is not that low).
i know i'm writing this post for nothing, but i feel like i had to, since we are the people that should benefit from the works the team offers.
now the staff can ignore what MANY people have already said, and i would not blame anyone, they are professionists and they know best

 

[Lyle Borders]

To be clear, we absolutely don't ignore anyone and anything. Ever. Much to the contrary. We read every single post, we answer every single message we see, and I respond to every private message I'm sent. We listen and we care. That said, we are not keen to jeopardize the educational strength of a product just to make it less expensive.

Sub Rosa, while technically not very difficult, does require practice and extreme precision. Before you can make your own deck, you'll need to be very familiar with the method and concept. The decks are not hard to make, but they require precision, and you need to have that expertise before you can make a decent deck yourself.

Shipping cost is based on the weight and size of your order and your location. We charge what it costs us to ship your package. Buying locally may be your best bet. Check with your local magic shop to see if they carry Sub Rosa, and if not ask for them to carry it.

Sub Rosa's price is extremely low. It is absolutely a steal when you consider what you are learning. Rarely are any of the real secrets of magic ever made available, for any price. JB had dinner with R. Paul Wilson last night, and Paul knew a pro who used to teach the concept of Sub Rosa for $500 - and people paid to learn. Again - this is a real, true secret. $35 for quality magic is nothing, and we did everything we could to ensure that this was made affordable. Read the reviews for Sub Rosa. Here is a brand new one from last night:

I've never done a review, but this masterpiece is the most useful thing I've learned in card magic. I've spent so much money in my life for magic that I've never used, and I swear I would pay more than $1000 for this secret.

Check it out. If you are concerned about the price, check the reviews. More reviews will be coming in soon as more people receive this. If you have questions, shoot them our way at theory11.com/support. We are always happy to help and to answer questions you may have.

// L

 

[legerdematt]

I am glad that I found this post. I don't think that anyone should at all be worried about the quality or practicality of any effect that T11 decides to put out.

I have in recent years been very disillusioned by other large online magic producers (you may know who I am referring to), since most guys out there put out whatever they can just to make a quick profit. T11 is one of the very few companies that remain truly committed to putting out only the best of the best.

Sub Rosa is absolutely fantastic for its price, and honestly, it is not uncommon to find utterly impractical effects out in the current market for well over $50. I fully support this project, as well as the guys at T11!

 

[Joey144]

I would happily pay the full price for a download only option. The problem I have is with the shipping costs. Paying almost the same price for shipping is a little to much for me. I'm aware of the concept and would love to hear what Jason brings to the table but without a download only option I have to pass on this one.

 

[leighelkins]

Look at it this way, as Lyle said, people have paid $500 to learn this method. It seems pretty much everyone in the know (and I don't just mean T11 staff, but customers and other magicians) agrees that they would pay a hell of a lot more than $35 to learn this method.

So don't look at it that Sub Rosa costs $35, look at it that it costs $55, or whatever the total of product + shipping would be for you. Given what people have paid to learn this in the past and all the reviews, $55 still sounds like a bargain. It sounds like even more of a bargain when I think of what other things have cost. I for one know I have easily spent $50 on something before and once it has arrived I've thought to myself "That is what I paid for?"

Final thought, Sub Rosa isn't going anywhere. I can't imagine T11 plan to stop selling it anytime soon. If it takes a few months to be able to afford it, if it means not buying other magic products for a while, so be it. You've got to ask yourself, how badly do you want it? How badly do you need it?

 

[sleightlySam]

This is absolute gold. theory11 could have (and in my opinion, should have) priced this at $50 or more. The fact that it's priced at $35 is a steal. Do yourself a huge favor, take the plunge, and get it. To reiterate what Jason says in the video: this is a secret that for the greater part of a century was priceless -- a real, actual, underground, no-hype secret.

More than any purchase I've made in magic this year: this is the one I value the most.

 

[Justin.Morris]

... Final thought, Sub Rosa isn't going anywhere. I can't imagine T11 plan to stop selling it anytime soon. If it takes a few months to be able to afford it, if it means not buying other magic products for a while, so be it. You've got to ask yourself, how badly do you want it? How badly do you need it?

What? Save up for it? No instant gratification? That's such a counter cultural way to do things! You rebel. Lol that's crazy talk to most people.

 

[Joey144]

What? Save up for it? No instant gratification? That's such a counter cultural way to do things! You rebel. Lol that's crazy talk to most people

Very funny. I didn't say that I'm looking for instant gratification or anything. My problem is that I would pay just as much for shipping as I do for the product itself. Again, I have no problem paying the full price for a download only option (without the decks). And to the people that continue telling how much more they would pay: how does it make any difference for the value of Sub Rosa if I pay ~$30 to the post office/shipping?

 

[leighelkins]

Because you just ignore who the money is going to. At the end of the day, do you feel Sub Rosa is worth $60 to you? If yes then get it, if not then don't.

 

[Joey144]

Because you just ignore who the money is going to. At the end of the day, do you feel Sub Rosa is worth $60 to you? If yes then get it, if not then don't.

I already said that I will pass on this one. I'm aware of the concept and played around with it but I was interested in what Jason brings new to the table. But no matter what, I'm allowed to express my opinion, right? Paying the same price for shipping is a reasonable concern that, judging from this thread, a lot of people share with me. And I find it pretty disturbing that a moderator makes fun of it.

 

[leighelkins]

Correct, you are allowed to express your opinion, the same as everyone else is free to express their opinion.

The fact of the matter is, T11 want to ensure that their customer get the exact experience that they advertise. If they released a download only and left people to make their own decks they may not get the exact experience and I'm sure the reviews following that wouldn't be "I made a poor quality deck but the download is amazing."

The alternative is for T11 to do what so many online retailers do and inflate their prices to be able to offer "free shipping". I am sure their would be no complaints is Sub Rosa was advertised as $60 + Free Shipping.

Anyway, each to their own.

 

[Justin.Morris]

Very funny. I didn't say that I'm looking for instant gratification or anything. My problem is that I would pay just as much for shipping as I do for the product itself. Again, I have no problem paying the full price for a download only option (without the decks). And to the people that continue telling how much more they would pay: how does it make any difference for the value of Sub Rosa if I pay ~$30 to the post office/shipping?

I apologize Joey, that was not directed at you at all (or anyone other than leighelkins really). I'm just in the process of getting out of debt and cutting up my credit cards, so leighelkins suggestion rang a bell with me and I was attempting to applaud his good idea. Right now my budget line for magic is $2.50 every two weeks. I've saved up a whopping $17.50. It will be a while before I get to spend it on something good. I'm learning a real lesson in patience, moderation, and delayed gratification. So it wasn't about you at all nor was it making fun of anyone (other than myself in a way). Sorry that it wasn't clear.

 

[leighelkins]

What? Save up for it? No instant gratification? That's such a counter cultural way to do things! You rebel. Lol that's crazy talk to most people.

nor was it making fun of anyone .

I vehemently disagree. And I object to being called a rebel. I am very much a law abiding, circle jerking, crowd following citizen.

 

[zswim]

I'm still waiting on the actual gimmicks to come, but if Theory11 wanted to keep this more secret they should of upped the price. Kind of disappointed because I see it has already been pirated on several sites..

 

[Bryant_Tsu]

I'm still waiting on the actual gimmicks to come, but if Theory11 wanted to keep this more secret they should of upped the price. Kind of disappointed because I see it has already been pirated on several sites..

Where? If so report it: http://theory11.wufoo.com/forms/theory11-copyright-report/