Teetering On Magic's Edge

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by AshleyHall, Jul 12, 2011.

  1. #1 AshleyHall, Jul 12, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 19, 2011
    This post has been edited,Thanks to all of the awesome and uber cool magic kiddos here at Theory 11, your advice and professionalism regarding my many postings here on this site has been invaluable. thank you all for being so amazingly nice to me. you guys are great. HUGS! :)
  2. Magicians Are ***holes. The End. If there isnt a gain for them or a hidden agenda, you are worthless to them. Anyone who says the opposite is lying an they know they are. I am not completely different, I am just stating the fact. Don't throw in the towel. Do whatever you want to do and do it the best you can. Keep kicking ass. You belong.
  3. First off- Are these guys being directly rude to you or simply not responding to "friend" requests? Because if it is the latter you can always just join their fan page. Many of these guys do try to keep the business end of their facebook life and the private side separate. If they have a Fan page, use that, instead of a direct friend request.

    Next is your age- I'm going to guess that you are 16 or 17 based on your join date and the fact that you mentioned that you started when you were 13. No offence here but it would be best if you tried to remember that you are going through crazy changes in your life right now which may lead to you being overly sensitive in social interactions. Thus, you may be taking things harsher than was intended by other parties. Don't feel bad. Teens in financially stable families with loving and supportive parents turn into basket cases in middle school and high-school. Like it or not it is part of growing up. So the way you are perceiving these Facebook slights might be due to nothing more than the time of life you are in right now. For instance, if I(in my 30s) decided one day, "I really like Dai Vernon's stuff! I'm going to friend him on Facebook." So I send the friend request. Assume he ignores it. The first thing I think is, "no big deal. He just got hired to consult for Harry Houdini, his career is taking off, he is a busy guy." If he sends me a polite refusal, something like, "Sorry but I keep my facebook friends limited to my personal friends. Here is a link to my fan page....blablabla.com." At my age I take that a face value. I don't read anything into it nor do I take offence. If he responds with something like, "Dude! You are a dweeb! What makes you think I would want to friend you?" Then I think....What a jack ass! I won't buy his crap anymore!
    What I don't do is think, "Ahh geez some big name magician called me a dweeb! I'd better quit magic!"

    The underlining point here is don't use magic to define yourself with. Enjoy your study of magic for it's own sake. That way no one, regardless of how kind or narcissistic they are can take it away from you.

    Disclaimer: For various reasons I used Dai Vernon and Harry Houdini in my example. I do not intend to imply that Mr. Vernon would ever have been so rude to a fan. Nor do I intend to defame the Vernon family name by implying that he ever would have accepted a job with Harry Houdini! The real reason Dai never friended me on Facebook was that....he died!
  4. Focus on making your magic better, not on befriending famous magicians on Facebook.

    Don't worry about going to national conventions for now, join a local IBM or SAM ring or go to lectures at your local magic shop. You can find a lot of people there that can help you a lot more than anyone you friend on Facebook will. Read. Read everything you can get your hands on... if you don't have a membership at the Learned Pig, get one. Use this forum to help you improve. There are lots of folks who know their stuff and will gladly help you. Go out and perform. Perform for laypeople and perform for magicians. Find competitions and compete.

    If you develop the knowledge and chops, when you finally go to a national convention people will want to hang out with you.
  5. Most professional entertainers are usually always on the road and don't often have the time to always respond to every friend request or email they get. It has nothing to with their personality or anything against, it's just one of the main things that happens when you end up becoming busy with business.
  6. i have mixed experiences with pro's. But to be honest i dont hold it against many of them. Within the magic world there is a certain celebrity mentality developing. Whoever is "hot" at the moment becomes idolized and copied endlessly by hundreds of "neebie", for lack of a better term, magicians who dont know better. And imagine that at every turn you have people coming up to you with no decorum, asking to be your student, asking how things are done, looking for short cuts, or just otherwise not leaving you alone. At some point you would get tired of it too. Now some of them choose not to deal with it at all. At a few conventions i have been to you will notice that should the pro's choose to hang out, they do so with other pro's, many who they have known for years. They choose to do this in bars, or private rooms or to leave the premise all together, largely to escape hanger on's. However this shouldn't be taken personally, they are people too and just want to have a good time and relax. There is a time for contacting them. That time is when they are putting themselves out there, ie at lectures and afterward when they hang around, when they choose to enter a convention area and meet new people, or after shows. The issue is that most people nowadays have no damn clue what decorum and respect is. If you feel compelled to go up and talk to a magician do so in a smart way. Go up, introduce yourself, say what you need to say, such as "i really enjoy your work, you've been a great inspiration". Maybe even validate yourself by showing them something. DO NOT TREAT THEM LIKE GODS!! they are people, maybe have a conversation that is halfway intelligent and not just about their newest effect which you LOVE OH SO MUCH and use everyday. Talk about what your working on, what you do. I had a wonderful conversation about photography and jeopardy once with a pro. And most of all, be cool. I dont mean wear shades and act like your better than you are, but act normal, be yourself and dont get nervous, they are just people too. And if they dont want to talk, THEY ARE DOUCHE BAGS that are snubbing you, it just might be a bad time. Its a fatal flaw of conventions but it is what it is. Ask them if they want to talk some other time, thank them for their time. Be polite, just like everyone else in this world, THEY DONT HAVE TO TALK TO YOU.

    With that said, there are some douche bags out there. Its just like everything else in this world. However some pro's that are absolutely amazing, and have a great connection with their fans are as follows.

    Wayne Houchin- one of the nicest guys i have ever met. He loves meeting people, he is friendly interesting and one of the most original guys in the business, and im not just talking about magic.

    Eric Jones- A class act. Polite, friendly and always willing to take some time to talk to a fellow magician.

    Chris Kenner- Is really a very nice guy. He does a lot for others, maybe too much. I have a feeling he got kinda burned on this and has taken a step back. But he really did look out for the younger generation and he and his wife both are very friendly and helpful, as long as you dont act like an idiot about it.

    Aaron Fisher- A little condescending when talking to you but i think thats just his sense of humor. But overall a wonderful chap, who delights in showing younger magicians some interesting sleight of hand.

    those are just a few.
  7. Judging by the response you've been getting to this thread it sounds to me like you belong. I have a question for you though. What is the "Magic Community"? Is it a special place where only famous magicians or people who have been on TV hang out? I like the advice RealityOne gave you. Check out you local chapters of IBM or SAM. There maybe people there who can help you out. I would venture to say that there are more ridiculously talented magicians that aren't famous or in the spot light than there are ones that are (awkward sentence). I've been a professional actor for 9 years. I have seen actors who no one has ever heard of with more talent in their little finger than some film stars have in their entire body (or will ever have). Just because someone is famous doesn't make them good especially these days. Now yes there are some magicians who are famous and rightfully so but they are not the only source for knowledge or comradery. I've always heard the saying "in entertainment it's all about who you know". The longer I keep working the more I find that it's about what you can do rather than who you know. Work on your craft. Perfect it then start showcasing yourself whether it's YouTube or submitting videos to magic sites or performing locally. If you have the chops, the famous/big name magicians will want to seek YOU out.
  8. While it is true, MOST magicians are jerks you will find that this is most typical with those under 35/40 years of age who are still pushing to get some recognition or worse, live off a short-lived hint at fame. . . let me explain that one.

    In the 1970s I'd managed to start gaining some kudos, had a handful of good years doing an illusion show, etc. but I likewise go into the party-party world of that era, lots of nose candy, speed, easy sex, etc. and thus foundered. . . I lost it all BUT, the ugly side to it all is that I still thought I had it. . . I still thought I was the young prince of the palace everyone loved and wanted to be apart of his life, etc. But the dark truth is, I was someone that only almost was and what little positive reputation I'd earned in my teen years, I threw away as a young adult by being eccentric, egotistical, non-professional (as in my actions, attitudes, etc.) I'd become someone that the big boys, including those that I thought were my friends, had to distance themselves from because I was too controversial and seemingly headed for a very ugly end.

    I've seen far too many young people go this same route, one in particular however, caught himself recently realizing that he didn't want to be that sort of person; while he enjoyed the few years of outrageous success he'd come to know, he wanted to rediscover the old Luke and get more down to earth. . . yes, I'm talking about Luke Jermay.

    When it comes to rubbing elbows with the big guys, simply start doing your own stuff and getting recognized for it be it on YouTube or doing live shows, conventions or whatever -- get the exposure and build the name recognition. The more material you do that's getting talked up, the more they are going to hear about it and the stronger the odds are that they will approach you. I've been absolutely blown away by people I've admired for years coming up to me and telling me what big fans they are. . . and I'm a comparative nobody to them. Thing is, I put out material, they read it and from their they make decisions about me and what I do or do not know.

    Not all magicians are jerks, some are amazingly gracious and I've been most fortunate to have had about a half-dozen of them in my life that made a tremendous difference for me on multiple levels; Harry Blackstone (Jr) being one of the most gracious and supportive souls going; Peter Pit who shared so much insight with me when it came to showmanship, not just magic; both Bill and Milt Larsen revealed to me the sense of "Family" that can exist in the magic world and how "we take care of our own" when the chips are down. . . I really can't go down this list, my head swims with so many names and scenarios but I think it more than proves the point that there are many good guys in this trade as well. . . so long as they see you as someone that contributes and is serious vs. the takers and B.S. artists they simply have no time for. They are after all, business people with limited time; when they take a few hours off to go to a convention or just go out for the night, they want to catch up with friends not fans.

    Celebrities will generally be gracious in passing but will become quite curt and even insolent when people act expectant or simply ask for too much.

    The Moral of the Story is as I've said; put in the work and build your own name and reputation in a solid, humble manner. Over time your own success and understanding of show biz, will open the doors. Understand though, all of them put on their pants the same way you do. . . fart the way you do. . . and can be a jerk just like you could be when not having a good day.
  9. Magicians are not much different anyone else in this world. There are many awesome people and many chumps. When you are in the same field as a professional, it can be hard to try to talk to them. Many times "professionals" let all the attention they receive go right to their heads. When they come face to face with someone they believe is inferior, things simply do not go well. These people you simply need to avoid. When you find one, don't bother. There are plenty of others out there who actually care.

    I remember not too long ago being in a tinychat room watching Eric Jones perform and teach everyone there some cool stuff. He was legit. He cared. He answered questions. He knew that he was good at something and instead of being a jerk about it helped everyone else to become better. I have seen the same thing from Irving Quant. When some of his effects were brand new releases on dananddave.com he was on tinychat teaching people how to do his effects. Who does that? Someone who wants to push the magic community ahead. Someone who cares. I have seen others in the same tinychat room on the same days showing up, flaunting their magic, being pricks, and not giving any advice or suggestions to anyone else. I will not namedrop any of these people who litter the magic community with crap, but there are many. There are artists from this website on both sides of the equation.

    Really, when it comes down to it, none of us perform magic to meet "magic celebrities." Honestly, if you were not a magician, would you want Jason England's autograph? Awesome guy, but he is not why you do magic, not is any other magician. The reasons you do magic are much deeper and more personal. The "magic celebrities" are simply a part of this community. If you can find one who will help you become a better magician, fantastic! If you can only find the prats who care nothing more than inflating their own ego and filling their own pocketbook, what have you really lost?

    Get back to your roots. Remind yourself.


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