The Masked Magician

[Steerpike]

Oh so as long as it's just stage illusions then it's okay, am I understanding this correctly? What about the guy who exposed street magic effects? I'm sure you heard of him. What if I decide to do a special and expose Holy Moly, the false transfer, two card monte, the double lift, the pass,etc.. I guess that would be okay with some of you, right?

Then I work harder. Dai Vernon was fooled with one of his own effects by one of his students. You should hear that and ask yourself, "What's my excuse?".

Rick Maue found a way around the exposure of nail writers, Banacheck around the exposure of telekinetic watch moving, Charles Morritt around the exposure of elementary mirror tricks... The list goes on.

Theory 11 was created to advance the art of magic and we have so many people defending exposure and saying that I should not complain.

Exposure is a necessary evil to the art. Exposure is the curve we stay ahead of.

 

[wesley11221]

What do you mean stay ahead? Don't they teach people to learn a few tricks and perform them well rather than trying to learn everything. How is this possible if I keep having to stay ahead because some jackasse decides to expose secrets. It seems to me that you do agree that it's wrong, but for some reason you don't want to flat out say it. You'd rather go on and on about staying ahead , and all that stuff. Yeah you can't stop exposure, just like you can't stop crime. However you can minimize them and that takes proactive approaches.

 

[Steerpike]

What do you mean stay ahead? Don't they teach people to learn a few tricks and perform them well rather than trying to learn everything.

The wisdom hasn't quite sunk in yet it seems. When they to learn and perfect a few, they mean just that. But that does not mean you should ever stop learning.

It seems to me that you do agree that it's wrong, but for some reason you don't want to flat out say it.

I just labelled it a necessary evil.

Speaking of things you won't say, you still haven't answered my question earlier. My interest in magic was sparked by the Masked Magician, yet you said people who watch that aren't dedicated magicians. Do you think that because I watched that special I'm not a dedicated magician? Yes or no. It's a very simple question that you have no excuse for not answering.

However you can minimize them and that takes proactive approaches.

Of which you have suggested none.

 

[wesley11221]

You're going to have a coronary when I tell you this, but I have a show called Psycho-Skepticism. I do a mentalism act where I go in telling everyone that what I'm about to do is ********. I won't tell them how I do it, but this is a blend of education and entertainment for the skeptical, analytical, and inquiring individual.

We are supposed to let the audience(meaning laypeople) decide for themselves what it's all about. They are supposed to wonder and suspend their disbelief. All you seem to be doing is trying to prove to others how clever you are because you can pull off these mentalism effects. That's not a magical performance.

 

[wesley11221]

Listen steerpike. I don't care that the masked magician inspired you to do magic. The ends do not always justify the means so it's irrelevent. Just because some good occurs because of a certain situation, does not make it justified. I'm sure you know that.

Speaking out against exposure is indeed a proactive approach. I mean the reason I feel the way I do is because of things I've heard or read about the subject. So whoever wrote the articles I've read have furthered their cause because they won me over.

 

[Steerpike]

We are supposed to let the audience(meaning laypeople) decide for themselves what it's all about. They are supposed to wonder and suspend their disbelief. All you seem to be doing is trying to prove to others how clever you are because you can pull off these mentalism effects. That's not a magical performance.

The show is not about me, and I find it very arrogant of you to accuse me of that when you've never seen it.

The show is intended to do something that few other magicians know how to do: speak to people on an intellectual level.

They're involved emotionally, so they won't be looking for the secret. But at the same time I'm appealing to their intelligence. The show is meant to give people a confidence in their own intellects and encourage them to expand upon their knowledge. In other words, I'm trying to inspire people to better themselves.

Which is much more than I can say of many magicians I've met.

Listen steerpike. I don't care that the masked magician inspired you to do magic. The ends do not always justify the means so it's irrelevent. Just because some good occurs because of a certain situation, does not make it justified. I'm sure you know that.

Yes or no. Answer the question.

Speaking out against exposure is indeed a proactive approach.

All you've done is complain and preach to the choir.

Magicians who get ulcers over YouTube exposure videos are incapable of selling an audience on themselves. If the audience likes you for you and not just because you're a card manipulating version of a dancing monkey, then it doesn't matter how many tricks the Masked Magician exposes.

 

[wesley11221]

First of all bro, I didn't accuse you of anything. I just said, "it seems to me..." That's not an accusation it's just an impression I got. What do you mean by "yes or no?"
You know, unfortunatley I'm not as gifted as you are in coming up with new material all the time. I think I can decide for myself when it's time to move on. I don't need someone to expose my secrets and tell me, "Yeah now it's time for you to find something new."

 

[wesley11221]

Tell me then, why was the president of the magic castle against it at the time? I guess you know better than him.
And for the record I'm not getting ulcers over anything. You seem just as intent on proving me wrong so look in the mirror.
Listen man , I don't want us to hate each other over this. I just believe that he was wrong for what he did. I understand that he got some people into magic,but that,in my opinion, does not justify it. I woldn't mind if he made a video and sold it to the magic community, but to do that on national television the way he did was disrespectful and uncalled for. Aren't we supposed to treat secrets with respect? Teaching magic and revealing secrets are two different things.

 

[Steerpike]

First of all bro, I didn't accuse you of anything. I just said, "it seems to me..." That's not an accusation it's just an impression I got.

I've gotten some flack for this from others, so I'm accustomed to being called out on the show. Jumped the gun on that one.

What do you mean by "yes or no?"

You said people who watch the Masked Magician are not dedicated magicians. I watched those specials when I was a kid. Am I dedicated magician? Yes or no. I will keep asking you that until you give me one of those answers.

You know, unfortunatley I'm not as gifted as you are in coming up with new material all the time. I think I can decide for myself when it's time to move on. I don't need someone to expose my secrets and tell me, "Yeah now it's time for you to find something new."

Who said you need to invent an entirely new effect? Study performance theory and have jam sessions with other magicians. Create new presentations.

Paul Gertner did the cups and balls with steel ball bearings. R. Shane did it with pieces of parchment and a scorpion. Penn & Teller did it with clear plastic cups.

Look into the book The Secret Art of Magic. The secrets are really the most worthless part of magic.

 

[Steerpike]

Tell me then, why was the president of the magic castle against it at the time? I guess you know better than him.

Like I said, you don't have to like it. I don't. But I'm not going to waste my energy boycotting YouTube.

When the Thumb Tip was revealed on national TV, Gary Darwin took some friends out and did an entire day of strolling magic using nothing but TT effects. He also painted his TT bright red. Nobody caught him.

Now ask yourself: What's my excuse?

 

[wesley11221]

Fine then. It seems to me that our debate is more about how to react to exposure than about whether or not it's okay. I'm starting to understand you better. I''m genuinly sorry if I offended you in any way. I just don't like it because who knows what can happen next. It should be discouraged in my opinion. I think it does more harm than good.

 

[Steerpike]

And for the record I'm not getting ulcers over anything. You seem just as intent on proving me wrong so look in the mirror.

I'm trying to get you to stop being a slave to something you can't change. I would not be wasting my time on this if I did not think you had potential.

I understand that he got some people into magic,but that,in my opinion, does not justify it.

I encourage you to study magic history. Jim Steinmeyer's books are excellent. The history of magic is sordid and filled with tales of backstabbing, betrayal, thievery, and other less-than-admirable practices. And unfortunately magicians today aren't much better.

We have a love/hate relationship with our secrets, as do most artists. DiVinci kept his techniques for mixing paints a secret, but that doesn't matter because even if you knew how to mix paints like DiVinci, you still couldn't paint like him.

You see where I'm going with this?

Aren't we supposed to treat secrets with respect? Teaching magic and revealing secrets are two different things.

That's another interesting double standard magicians have. A lot of great acts, especially in the cups and balls routines, reveal elementary slights like false transfers. But they're shown so ineptly that when you do the real thing, the audience isn't going to catch it.

My parents know how most of my effects work from watching me practice and being my guinea pigs. But that doesn't make it any less impressive for them. They're hardcore atheists and skeptics. They think any magician trying to pass himself off as Harry Potter is masturbating. But a magician who's charming, engaging, and witty impresses them even when they know his secrets, because they want to see him.

 

[wesley11221]

Fine then. It seems to me that our debate is more about how to react to exposure than about whether or not it's okay. I'm starting to understand you better. I''m genuinly sorry if I offended you in any way. I just don't like it because who knows what can happen next. It should be discouraged in my opinion. I think it does more harm than good.
Maybe I've been overreacting a bit, but I don't believe we should just be silent about it.

 

[Steerpike]

I just don't like it because who knows what can happen next. It should be discouraged in my opinion. I think it does more harm than good.

All we can do is encourage one another not to participate in it. Once the secret is out there, it's out of our control and it's time to move on. We either create new effects or new presentations. The choice is up to the individual.

Although personally I prefer to constantly think up new presentations for every trick I know. I want to make sure I'm never caught blindsided. And if someone knows how I did it, I have an out.

 

[wesley11221]

Alright brother. I'm going to retire for the night. It was good talking to you and I look forward to speaking with you again. I'll wait in case you want to say any last words ,and if warranted I'll respond another time.

 

[Telekinesis 33.1]

Ok. Lately, “Breaking the Magicians Code: Magic’s Biggest Secrets Finally Revealed” has been coming on pretty frequently, and I’ve seen a few posts about the show bashing it. I’m all for this, bash away, but I’d like to make a few points regarding the show.

First, if you don’t like the show, then DO NOT watch it. The more people watch it, the better ratings the show will get, and the more frequently it will air. So the first step to killing the show is to stop watching it. I’m not saying it will stop airing from now until the end of time, but at least it’ll get rid of it for a while.

Second, the main thing I like to remember when I see that this show is on while I’m scanning the guide on TV, is Val Valentino doesn’t reveal very many effects/illusions that people still perform today. Of course, the show does reveal the secrets to some pretty big time effects that some of us may still perform, but very little. I mean seriously, who in this forums still levitates a dump truck, then vanishes it? Didn’t think so.

Third. Some people HATE the Masked Magician for what he does, which is revealing secrets. Guys, he does this for a reason. Not to piss off other magicians around the globe, but to encourage others to get into magic. Yes, what he does is wrong in a sense, but every cloud has a silver lining.

I just thought I’d share my thoughts on the situation and let you guys take over from here.

Peace.

Great words, man. I agree with you, if somebody hates the show then they shouldn't watch it.
This show did inspire a couple of magicians, including myself so don't blame Valentino for destroying the art of magic, because he didn't

And now FOX Network went ahead and found a new masked magician, for "Breaking The Magician's Code: Magic's Biggest Secrets Finally Revealed 5" and this guy is actually revealing some tricks that i beleive some people still perform, so don't be mad at Val Valentino, be mad at this new guy.

 

[apathy]

"When everything relevant about the market is known, competition to obtain the profit will eliminate it."

Just ran across this quote in my economics book for college; thought it can be applied to exposure in magic as well. Think about it.

 

[baller08]

It seems to me that our debate is more about how to react to exposure than about whether or not it's okay.

Interesting debate between you guys (wesley and steerpike). I don't think there is anybody on this forum that thinks what the masked magician is doing is ethical, moral, <fill in your own word>.

Wesley...I get what you're saying, youtube exposure does suck especially when we've worked hard to perfect a move. We've all been there, it can take weeks to perfect a move that takes 2 second to execute.

But overall Steerpike is right in that illusion is all about how you carry yourself and how you engage the audience. I've shown friends a simple card force and 2 weeks later use that same force to set up a trick and they're still blown away by whatever the reveal is. We study magic so we think everyone remembers and sees everything we do...but the fact is...most laypeople forget because their minds aren't in it.

 

[praetoritevong]

Laypeople forget everything if your performance wasn't memorable in some way. For it to be memorable, a performance must be something more than just fooling them.

Magic is the anecdote waiting to be told in ten years.