tivo 2.0 best variation ever fool people best than the original one

[Austin Fields]

The idea that everyone is out to get you is called paranoia. I'm sorry you think I tried to set you up into this. There was obviously a misunderstanding within the thread.

I'm a psychology major as a sophomore in junior level psychology courses. I also lecture a "psychology of deception" class to the lower level psychology classes. I don't agree with the idea that your spectators see you as anything more than an entertainer. I'm an entertainer before I am a magician, and seeing me as a witch is a fear not an aid to what I'm doing. I don't know why you would brag about having such a serious reaction to your magic, it seems to me to be an extremely negative reaction to magic to the point where people are now afraid of magic. Magic is a gift to share.

Obviously as a close up effect there's no blocking. The presentation is an attention getter, gathering them into the way I present magic. All my tricks are set up along a single phrase "a logical train of thought meets an illogical conclusion". So I slow the effect down and let the color change resonate within them. I then suggest to them that if that's true then the card in the middle... And they assume the conclusion before I have to prove it, which then takes the heat off the move, not that it's much of one anyway.

 

[KeoSilver]

The idea that everyone is out to get you is called paranoia. I'm sorry you think I tried to set you up into this. There was obviously a misunderstanding within the thread.

Yeah there was a misunderstanding because you wanted to sound smart so you posted a one sentence post, which has lead to this discussion.

I'm a psychology major as a sophomore in junior level psychology courses. I also lecture a "psychology of deception" class to the lower level psychology classes. I don't agree with the idea that your spectators see you as anything more than an entertainer.

Just for the record I didn't say that you aren't anything more then an entertainer, You did.

I'm an entertainer before I am a magician, and seeing me as a witch is a fear not an aid to what I'm doing. I don't know why you would brag about having such a serious reaction to your magic, it seems to me to be an extremely negative reaction to magic to the point where people are now afraid of magic. Magic is a gift to share.

I am a magician first last and always. As a magician I am already entertaining. So saying that I am an entertainer is redundant because being a magician I'm already an entertainer. Why would I brag about making people believe that my magic is real? Well duh! I just made a sane human being believe that there is such a thing as magic. That is my job! I am a magician, wizard, whatever and it is my job to either convince participants/ or successfully suspend their beliefs of what is reality and what reality really is. Now I can neither confirm or deny your "Studies" in psychology, everyone with a degree seems they can rule the world. I am a firm believer that street smarts firmly over weighs book smarts in many respects.

Fear is power and power means control. If I can use the fear to control the spectators mind into believing what they had just witnessed was some act of the supernatural, then A plus for me. That is how I perform, I don't care about what specs think I'd rather be the mystery performer then some trickster.

Obviously as a close up effect there's no blocking.

You are very wrong here. Close-up effects have just as much blocking as a stage show, it is only smaller and harder to miss if not paid attention too. For example, "Where did I place that lighter." Right hand holds torn card and pats on the right while head stays forward. At the same time left hand pats and digs into left pocket as if searching for the lighter. The Left hand palms the restored burnt card and comes out seemingly empty handed. The magician looks up as a revelation occurs. Right hand false transfers the torn card to left hand which is now in plane site with the restored card, while eyes, head and body direct the audiences focus to the right pocket. The right hand goes into the pocket and produces the lighter ditching the torn card.

That is blocking for a a close-up torn and restored card.

The presentation is an attention getter, gathering them into the way I present magic. All my tricks are set up along a single phrase "a logical train of thought meets an illogical conclusion". So I slow the effect down and let the color change resonate within them. I then suggest to them that if that's true then the card in the middle... And they assume the conclusion before I have to prove it, which then takes the heat off the move, not that it's much of one anyway.

That isn't what I asked about presentation. Getting the answer, my "presentation is an attention getter" is as useful to me as someone replying "I am myself" when it comes to character persona. Good phrase to look at however what is the logic behind having a card that you select and control change places with another card? If I was your spec I'd be more impressed if it it happened in my own hands and not in the gimmicked deck.

But now that I look at this all, we've gone way off topic and you know what? I am fine with that.

 

[Austin Fields]

Ok as an acting minor I can tell you right now that's not what blocking is, blocking refers to the positioning of people on stage for a specific purpose, what you're talking about is called motivated action. I feel like you're tossing around terms you don't understand.

Second, this is absurd, your arguments are based on a single sentence of mine and attempting to call foul upon it. I'd rather take the point of the sentence and argue that.
I gave youu presentation of the effect and the theory behind it like you claimed, if you can't find something wrong with it then admit that, trying to pick at anything else makes you seem childish and ignorant.

You also asked me to verify my competence within the area of psychology, I did and you dismiss it as if it was unimportant. If you don't want an answer don't bring it up.

A fallacy in your argument comes in when you say as a magician I'm always entertaining. Being a magician and performing magic does not equal entertainment. There are leaps and bounds between the two.

You're telling me you tell some type of back story between all of your effects in a cocktail setting? Why am I doing the effect? Because people want to see magic, and a transposition is magical. People will allow you to set up the premises for the effects.

Fear is no way to control your spectators. Bar none. I think you're the only magician that will use fear to "aid" you in your performance. If you were in danger that's one thing, if they are afraid of you, you're ineffective as a performer.

 

[KeoSilver]

Ok as an acting minor I can tell you right now that's not what blocking is, blocking refers to the positioning of people on stage for a specific purpose, what you're talking about is called motivated action. I feel like you're tossing around terms you don't understand.

As a musical theater actor of eleven years, there are very much so similarities between blocking, choreography, motivational movements whatever you want to call it. When you are performing close up magic your stage is within a small square or table. I do not get hung up with correct terms, I know what blocking is and am using it, though metaphorically, as a way to explain that your hands and body are the things that guide an audience through your set much like an actor moving from one point to the other.

Second, this is absurd, your arguments are based on a single sentence of mine and attempting to call foul upon it. I'd rather take the point of the sentence and argue that.
I gave youu presentation of the effect and the theory behind it like you claimed, if you can't find something wrong with it then admit that, trying to pick at anything else makes you seem childish and ignorant.

You've lost me completely now, would you kindly quote what you are talking about?

You also asked me to verify my competence within the area of psychology, I did and you dismiss it as if it was unimportant. If you don't want an answer don't bring it up.

I dismiss it because I can say that I am the manager of Starbucks and teach new employees what the difference between a Sumatra blend in from the Asian Komodo dragon blend. All I know about you is you're a wannabe college psyche student where anyone can actually get into if they wanted to. I can study psychology to if I had a real desire to, however I find practice and observations much more valuable then research papers, textbooks and other sources of university studies.

A fallacy in your argument comes in when you say as a magician I'm always entertaining. Being a magician and performing magic does not equal entertainment. There are leaps and bounds between the two.

Well pardon me professor since you know more then me, maybe you should actually try and teach me the gaps that are leaps and bounds apart that separate magic and entertainment. The performance of magic is inheriently entertaining and if you perform magic you are in fact the entertainer. Anyone can be an entertainer of any situation, but only a few can actually be a magician and not only an entertainer.

You're telling me you tell some type of back story between all of your effects in a cocktail setting? Why am I doing the effect? Because people want to see magic, and a transposition is magical. People will allow you to set up the premises for the effects.

No telling back story is boring, showing back story is a lot better. If you can in fact transpose two cards with each other, wouldn't you want to do it as clean as possible? The thing about any variation of TIVO is that it looks too sleight heavy! When things look sleighty or fishy to a spectator your magical merit has diminished and you come across as an entertainer, a trickster if you will.

Fear is no way to control your spectators. Bar none. I think you're the only magician that will use fear to "aid" you in your performance. If you were in danger that's one thing, if they are afraid of you, you're ineffective as a performer.

If I am afraid of god, do you not think I'd be more inclined to believe that a simple trick was actually a miracle? I am not saying that I purposefully instill fear in my participants however if that is their reaction to my magic, I will not object. If I am performing a mentalism show and I do not give a disclaimer that what is being seen is just trickery or pseudo psychology and after the show people believe that I am actually able to tell the future and what not so be it. They still got entertained and they left with something to think about even when I am not around.

 

[canadamagic]

Okay both of you are being ridiculous. Excuse me for interrupting the argument but it was over a disagreement that totally could have been avoided.
Beans: As TiVo was introduced to the magic underground there was a stupid amount of variations coming out of everywhere. I'm not sure if you even remember or were around during this time but everyother thread was about a new TiVo variation. It was a waste. Almost all of them were stupid, repeats of others, and were done on YOUTUBE (hence youtube magicians*) and done SITTING DOWN in a CHAIR or at a DESK. Again seeing the crotch magician perspective. You putting in the fact that you perform yours standing up is just trying to remove yourself from being in that category. The fact that you don't film your performance is totally irrelevant to the conversation and stating this was just a waste of time.

KeoSilver: I completely agree with you about all of the variations. But you cannot say that TiVo is not a good effect giving the feeling of magic. This again goes into the conversation on what is magic, which again has been talked to death. Though it may not fit your qualifications you cannot declair it out of the field of magic. It was a good effect, the original...not all the stupid variations.
My Thoughts guys.

 

[KeoSilver]

KeoSilver: I compleatly agree with you about all of the variations. But you cannot say that TiVo is not a good effect giving the feeling of magic. This again goes into the conversation on what is magic, which again has been talked to death. Though it may not fit your qualifications you cannot declair it out of the field of magic. It was a good effect, the original...not all the stupid variations.
My Thoughts guys.

I didn't say that it should be not considered magic, magic being the general term that encompasses Gambling cheats, street magic, walk around, stage, etc, it just isn't as magical as others think. Visual changes don't always equal Magic, this magic being what a Magician or someone with powers, could do.

 

[canadamagic]

I didn't say that it should be not considered magic, magic being the general term that encompasses Gambling cheats, street magic, walk around, stage, etc, it just isn't as magical as others think. Visual changes don't always equal Magic, this magic being what a Magician or someone with powers, could do.

Still I agree wtih you, but this goes into the discution on what defines magic. I have a very different idea on what is and what isn't magic.
Again to each his own.

 

[Austin Fields]

If I am passionate enough to pursue psychology as my major do you not think I would read more than the required text? As a performer would you not think I've attempted to apply my knowledge to my craft?? Not to open up an obvious can of worms here but I will agree that school is useless unless you apply the concepts of what you learn rather than memorizing formulas and proper nouns.

The gaps between doing magic and being entertaining take books to describe, and I will not go into that here. I don't know if you've read any of these books but my assessment of your "theories" is that you haven't. I'll point you in the direction of the fitzkee trilogy for a proper treatise on performance theory.

I don't believe I'm patronizing you in anyway, it would be stupid to see you as anything but an equal of mine, or I wouldn't be religiously checking this thread to respond. If you're referring to me being articulate in this discussion I don't think it should be a negative concept.

Canada whilst I respect your ideas on te conversation it has actually turned from mundane to a debate on two schools of thought in magic. Maybe the original idea you wouldn't deem worth the effort but it's relatively interesting now I would think.

Keo, there is a difference between motivated action and blocking, but no difference between motivated movement and blocking. Moving from one place to another out of disgust is blocking, reaching for a handkerchief to cover your nose and mouth is motivated action.

 

[canadamagic]

Canada whilst I respect your ideas on the conversation it has actually turned from mundane to a debate on two schools of thought in magic. Maybe the original idea you wouldn't deem worth the effort but it's relatively interesting now I would think.
.

Maybe if you have read my post you would see that I give the effect the credit required.
You bringing up that fact that you are a psychology major is your attempt to heighten your status above us in this conversation. Frankly it's an insult, and quite childish. You trying to talk all over us by using unnecessarily complex word structure is the same, pointless as it excessive the same result as talking normally, and again childish. I've gone far enough in this conversation and I'm finished here.

 

[Austin Fields]

Did you call me childish and then say that my sentence structure is too advanced? Maybe if you had read the thread he had asked me why I believed I was qualified for the discussion of psychological principles that had come up.

Calling someone childish doesn't renounce you of being so, and if you're going to call me something at least explain why you think so and argue rather than "be done" and run away.

Both of you have come after the way I speak, it's not overly complicated, it's not something I'm purposely attempting, this is how I speak and write. I'm sorry if it's a problem for you but I won't change for a couple of people on an Internet forum.

 

[KeoSilver]

If I am passionate enough to pursue psychology as my major do you not think I would read more than the required text? As a performer would you not think I've attempted to apply my knowledge to my craft?? Not to open up an obvious can of worms here but I will agree that school is useless unless you apply the concepts of what you learn rather than memorizing formulas and proper nouns.

No, but I hope you are applying the psychology to magic. But I surely hope you really actually want to pursue a carreer as a psychologist or other career paths that a psychology major can get you. Personally, I would just take a psyche class as like a minor or maybe even an elective. I'd major in business so I have something to fall back on, but that is just my personal train of thought.

The gaps between doing magic and being entertaining take books to describe, and I will not go into that here. I don't know if you've read any of these books but my assessment of your "theories" is that you haven't. I'll point you in the direction of the fitzkee trilogy for a proper treatise on performance theory.

Nope I have not read them yet, though I know of the trilogies existence. However, I am not one to take everything I read in a book for face value. Just because you do not understand my theories in magic does not mean my interpretation of them do not parallel those held by other magicians. I have a very DIY approach to things and refuse to except some information given to me in books or word of mouth until I experience it myself. Yeah it is a bit stubborn but I have found I learn much better that way.

Keo, there is a difference between motivated action and blocking, but no difference between motivated movement and blocking. Moving from one place to another out of disgust is blocking, reaching for a handkerchief to cover your nose and mouth is motivated action.

I don't really see a difference...no a better way of saying that would be I do not understand the difference. I don't really need to either it isn't very important to what I do.


Bean if you do not mind me asking. How did you start magic? Also as you went through the years of being a magician how many other magician's have you been able to be in contact with?

I am just curious to see why we think differently.

 

[Austin Fields]

I'm going for a PhD in psych, though I really considered doing a business major psych minor like you said. I actually apply as much as I can psychologically to magic, that's why much of my created work doesn't work on magicians, the psychology is different.

As for being stubborn I agree to see that it will keep you an original performer. I'm similar in that respect although I've had my ups and downs like everyone with performance styles, and I have experience in your witchcraft reactions. They never worked in any positive light for me, but if they work for you I suppose it's ok, unless this has been recent in which case I hope you don't get bit by it. It also never hurts to read books about presentation, at the very least they'll give you concepts you can apply with your style

I started magic six years ago in highschool, my great grandfather was an actor/comedian so performance and entertainment has always been in my family. I just chose magic as my medium.

We most likely have different backgrounds on how we see performance, I'm a comedic magician that does pseudo-psychology magic effects most of the time.

 

[KeoSilver]

I'm going for a PhD in psych actually, though I really considered doing a business major psych minor like you said. I actually apply as much as I can psychologically to magic, that's why much of my created work doesn't work on magicians, the psychology is different.

Cool, at least you gots a game plan. It is always a good thing to have something to fall back on that doesn't include flipping burgers at an in and out.

As for being stubborn I agree to see that it will keep you an original performer. I'm similar in that respect although I've had my ups and downs like everyone with performance styles, and I have experience in your witchcraft reactions. They never worked in any positive light for me, but if they work for you I suppose it's ok, unless this has been recent in which case I hope you don't get bit by it.

Nah, people are just ick sometimes when it comes with magic and witchcraft. I don't personally care if they get offended by what I do. Even though I succeeded to amaze them and make them suspend their beliefs, if they fail to return to a logical state that what they just saw was actually a trick, I have to question their sanity among other things, we don't need to get into a religious beliefs on that one.

I am stubborn because I have to. I am a sponge and soak soooooo much information that is given to me that it almost becomes a problem. I used to have a very sankey character, over the top Zanney. It was because I watched a frick load of sankey dvds. I am heavily influenced by the things I see on the internet and once had the "What to buy next" syndrome. But it was when I started to look back and around me that I realized, I was being a dork with an expensive spending habbit. Dropping three hundred dollars at Penguin was very easy for me at one point.

It also never hurts to read books about presentation, at the very least they'll give you concepts you can apply with your style

I started magic six years ago in highschool, my great grandfather was an actor/comedian so performance and entertainment has always been in my family. I just chose magic as my medium.

We most likely have different backgrounds on how we see performance, I'm a comedic magician that does pseudo-psychology magic effects most of the time.

Just because I am stubborn doesn't mean I won't read and acknowledge someone's written thoughts in books. They def. help plant a concept in my head that I then go and either explore and develop for myself. So yeah it is like taking a concept and making it my own style.

The only reason why I asked about the upbringing in magic was yes to see why the contrast in thoughts and what not. I didn't have a very supportive family and was geographically cut off from others with my interests.This alienation, that may be too strong of a word, made me self reliant. When I finally did gain access to the internet and other magicians, I will not lie, I clashed with many of their "Mainstream" thoughts on subjects. I once watched professional "reader" the psychic ones, get bashed and run off the cafe before. I didn't disagree with the reader and didn't really mind they were "scamming" I do not know if scamming would be the right word people for money. However I draw the line if they are giving out medical advice without a licenses. In all other cases it is like a glorified "psychologist" or even lesser then that and more of a friend giving advice.

My morals and ethics contrast what most people's ethics and morals in magic in a great way. But enough about me and more about stuff!

 

[Austin Fields]

Cool, at least you gots a game plan. It is always a good thing to have something to fall back on that doesn't include flipping burgers at an in and out.



Nah, people are just ick sometimes when it comes with magic and witchcraft. I don't personally care if they get offended by what I do. Even though I succeeded to amaze them and make them suspend their beliefs, if they fail to return to a logical state that what they just saw was actually a trick, I have to question their sanity among other things, we don't need to get into a religious beliefs on that one.

I am stubborn because I have to. I am a sponge and soak soooooo much information that is given to me that it almost becomes a problem. I used to have a very sankey character, over the top Zanney. It was because I watched a frick load of sankey dvds. I am heavily influenced by the things I see on the internet and once had the "What to buy next" syndrome. But it was when I started to look back and around me that I realized, I was being a dork with an expensive spending habbit. Dropping three hundred dollars at Penguin was very easy for me at one point.



Just because I am stubborn doesn't mean I won't read and acknowledge someone's written thoughts in books. They def. help plant a concept in my head that I then go and either explore and develop for myself. So yeah it is like taking a concept and making it my own style.

The only reason why I asked about the upbringing in magic was yes to see why the contrast in thoughts and what not. I didn't have a very supportive family and was geographically cut off from others with my interests.This alienation, that may be too strong of a word, made me self reliant. When I finally did gain access to the internet and other magicians, I will not lie, I clashed with many of their "Mainstream" thoughts on subjects. I once watched professional "reader" the psychic ones, get bashed and run off the cafe before. I didn't disagree with the reader and didn't really mind they were "scamming" I do not know if scamming would be the right word people for money. However I draw the line if they are giving out medical advice without a licenses. In all other cases it is like a glorified "psychologist" or even lesser then that and more of a friend giving advice.

My morals and ethics contrast what most people's ethics and morals in magic in a great way. But enough about me and more about stuff!

No worries man, It's interesting to hear other perspectives and debate against them, sometimes heated but always interesting. I hear you on the too much influence part, I used to be like that too but I've eventually grown to be able to look at a DVD and decide if I could ever use it, it's just experience and a full junk drawer i guess

 

[canadamagic]

Did you call me childish and then say that my sentence structure is too advanced? Maybe if you had read the thread he had asked me why I believed I was qualified for the discussion of psychological principles that had come up.

Calling someone childish doesn't renounce you of being so, and if you're going to call me something at least explain why you think so and argue rather than "be done" and run away.
Both of you have come after the way I speak, it's not overly complicated, it's not something I'm purposely attempting, this is how I speak and write. I'm sorry if it's a problem for you but I won't change for a couple of people on an Internet forum.

You seem to have a affinity with twisting my words and not reading my post through. Did I at all say your sentence structure was too advanced? Nope. If you don't believe me go through and read again. I can point out ever reason why I think you are acting childish in this discussion. If you want me to feel free to PM me about it. My "running away" is me off to do better things. If you want to continue this conversation I'll be happy to do so. I just didn't see the purpose of me doing so as this was not my conversation to begin with.

 

[Austin Fields]

Maybe if you have read my post you would see that I give the effect the credit required.
You bringing up that fact that you are a psychology major is your attempt to heighten your status above us in this conversation. Frankly it's an insult, and quite childish. You trying to talk all over us by using unnecessarily complex word structure is the same, pointless as it excessive the same result as talking normally, and again childish. I've gone far enough in this conversation and I'm finished here.

Ok Canada I'll humor you throughout this post, although I've seen no reason to actually argue with you, you seem emotional and slightly illogical. I'll break how this reads down to you.

You did give the effect the credit is deserved, and I did read your post, you didn't read mine. You tried to break up an argument topic from two pages before you actually posted, which means that what I was commenting on is that the first argument was in fact pointless, it had changed over the last two pages into a debate about performance theory, which was signigantly more interesting than the original argument. This is what I said, I have no idea how you misinterpreted this as an attack.

I've already told you I was asked to bring up my psychology credibility, which is why it came up. This is called ethos, it means credibility and it's one of three steps in logical, educated debate. I'm sorry you disagree with credibility, either you don't have much to prove yourself with or you just haven't learned to properly discuss things.

I'm again sorry my overly complex word structure is annoying you, although I'm not sure what that actually means. This is just based in opinion though.

Here you throw out childish, with no support, just childish. If you were referring to the word choice idea it is again purely an opinionated statement, so it makes a poor reference. I just font understand the correlation between big words and children, if you're falling behind I think that would make you childish.

I use words that I believe fit, which is why you might never hear the same word used in two different senarios. I apologize for being articulate as well.

If you think at the end of this that I just did what you're accusing me of, and talking down to you, then you'd be right, but it's because you sir, are acting childish.

 

[canadamagic]

Ok Canada I'll humor you throughout this post, although I've seen no reason to actually argue with you, you seem emotional and slightly illogical. I'll break how this reads down to you.

You did give the effect the credit is deserved, and I did read your post, you didn't read mine. You tried to break up an argument topic from two pages before you actually posted, which means that what I was commenting on is that the first argument was in fact pointless, it had changed over the last two pages into a debate about performance theory, which was signigantly more interesting than the original argument. This is what I said, I have no idea how you misinterpreted this as an attack.

I've already told you I was asked to bring up my psychology credibility, which is why it came up. This is called ethos, it means credibility and it's one of three steps in logical, educated debate. I'm sorry you disagree with credibility, either you don't have much to prove yourself with or you just haven't learned to properly discuss things.

I'm again sorry my overly complex word structure is annoying you, although I'm not sure what that actually means. This is just based in opinion though.

Here you throw out childish, with no support, just childish. If you were referring to the word choice idea it is again purely an opinionated statement, so it makes a poor reference. I just font understand the correlation between big words and children, if you're falling behind I think that would make you childish.

I use words that I believe fit, which is why you might never hear the same word used in two different senarios. I apologize for being articulate as well.

If you think at the end of this that I just did what you're accusing me of, and talking down to you, then you'd be right, but it's because you sir, are acting childish.

I love how through an argument I'm being called illogical. I read through this entire thread, twice. I read everything you posted. I read where you need to specify that you were a major. Though you continued to prompt that you had this over everyone else. That is what I am calling you chilidish. If you don't agree and others do as well. Than feel free to discount what I have said.
Why do you continue bringing up how you speak? I questioned this once. Go through and check again if you like. I can understand exactly what you say. I'm not stupid. You continuing to point this out is arrogant trying to make me look foolish. That is what I am saying is childish.