Tricks to floor nonbelievers?

[Craig Browning]

I'm sure at least some of use have encountered some people in their lives who deem themselves as extremely practical and have stated their disbelief in superstitions, magic, and etc. What are some tricks that would floor a person like this? A trick that has little room for error as the person is extremely detail oriented, and a trick that might make them say, "well that impossible, but you just did it"?

Thanks,

Firstly, we need to know where you're coming from with this; are you trying to just do a magic effect that blows their mind or are you trying to get them to join your cult?

Mentalism is where you will find this kind of "Magic" but I must stress that it's not "the trick" but how you present it and that's something few have the knack to do "right" initially... it takes time, loads of practice, critique and discipline in order to get there. Especially if you lean on some of the key skills within Mentalism that most ignore or simply find to be too troublesome to invest the time in to learn... such as Muscle Reading and creating a convincing series of "Suggestion" demonstration... like forgetting their own name, or not finding their card in a deck , etc. there's all sorts of effects along this line. The point is, you are creating a form of Magick that goes against their logic or claim thereof...
... many people claim to be "skeptics" but most really aren't and can be turned into believers really fast in the hands of a seasoned showman that knows his stuff. I could start my own church based on little other than my Muscle Reading and Cold Reading demonstrations, toss in some shamanic styled bits like Cloud Busting, maybe the Blood Tears or SMOKE done in a manner that that is logically tied to PSI type manifestations and you've got them where you want them.

So you really need to focus on what your goal is; simple shock value or conversion. Both are easy to accomplish if you're willing to put the work into it.

 

[Liderc]

to chime in really fast..

i'm one who believes in real psychic powers, i'm one who believes anyone can bring forth their powers with proper meditation and training

with that being said, i never lie and say i have "powers" but i give the feeling of wait. could he? could he really? i want people to start thinking outside the box of what were supposed to believe..

if a baby was born with everyone flying, he too would fly because that's what he knows as reality from birth..

quick example:

Metal bending, i do a short two phase fork or spoon bending routine. i once did it for my aunt and uncle.. my family who have known me for 24 years... and after doing it they both said... there is no way he could have bent it with his hands. he actually did it with his mind.. they could not and would not believe that it was anything but "real"

sorry i got more to say, but gotta jet off.. cheers mates I'll continue later

 

[JButterfield]

Says who... that's a very closed minded way to view the world

So if I told you I made the coin vanish by magical powers, you would just accept that? You wouldn't think it might be trickery?

Do you really think that there are some magicians that use real magical powers to vanish coins, and find selected cards?

Metal bending, i do a short two phase fork or spoon bending routine. i once did it for my aunt and uncle.. my family who have known me for 24 years... and after doing it they both said... there is no way he could have bent it with his hands. he actually did it with his mind.. they could not and would not believe that it was anything but "real"

So if they ask you, in all sincerity if that was real, what will you tell them? That it was a convincing trick, or that you really have powers?

If it's the latter, what will you say if they ask you to use your gifts to contact dead loved ones, or on what stocks to invest in, or lottery numbers? Or to heal them when they get sick?

 

[Randy]

So if I told you I made the coin vanish by magical powers, you would just accept that? You wouldn't think it might be trickery?

Do you really think that there are some magicians that use real magical powers to vanish coins, and find selected cards?



So if they ask you, in all sincerity if that was real, what will you tell them? That it was a convincing trick, or that you really have powers?

If it's the latter, what will you say if they ask you to use your gifts to contact dead loved ones, or on what stocks to invest in, or lottery numbers? Or to heal them when they get sick?

It worked for Uri Gellar who continued to have a pretty damn long career, even after James Randi kept trying to disprove him.

Thouhg you need to get real. People are not going to ask a guy who bends metal with his mind to contact the dead. That's not how it works. If he says that he used the power of his to do it. Some will beleive him and others may not.

 

[JButterfield]

Well, it turns out Uri Gellar didn't bend 'em with his mind. Seems people are okay with it being trickery after all. Did you see the Tonight Show when he got busted?

I was busking, and had a guy ask me about black masses, Allister Crowley, and such, if I could contact the dead, or see the future.. Should I have let him keep thinking I was supernatural, or did I do the right thing by telling him it's all trickery? Bear in mind, this is doing coin magic, not something even remotely related to the occult or mentalism. So, it's really happened to me. I would think it would happen more often if one does mentalism, bizarre magic, or anything remotely resembling an occult theme.

So if someone says "really, I have to know - did you use the power of your mind to bend that metal, or was it a trick? I'm really confused, and I need you to tell me the truth" what do you say?

 

[WitchDocIsIn]

James Randi has a good story about a guy that wanted to pay him to pick race horses. He talks about it in his interview with the Magic Newswire, though I don't have the date handy.

 

[Randy]

Well, it turns out Uri Gellar didn't bend 'em with his mind. Seems people are okay with it being trickery after all. Did you see the Tonight Show when he got busted?

I was busking, and had a guy ask me about black masses, Allister Crowley, and such, if I could contact the dead, or see the future.. Should I have let him keep thinking I was supernatural, or did I do the right thing by telling him it's all trickery? Bear in mind, this is doing coin magic, not something even remotely related to the occult or mentalism. So, it's really happened to me. I would think it would happen more often if one does mentalism, bizarre magic, or anything remotely resembling an occult theme.

So if someone says "really, I have to know - did you use the power of your mind to bend that metal, or was it a trick? I'm really confused, and I need you to tell me the truth" what do you say?

You dealt with a once in a life time thing. Why worry about such things though. I've read stories about how super religious people have accused Sleight of hand magicians of using "The Devils" power, even though the magician didn't say he was using the devils power. What's the point of being paranoid about those things? It doesn't accomplish anything. If people want to beleive that you can bend stuff with your mind, then let them. Let people have a bit of supernatural-ness in their lives. It's not hurting anybody and it makes life a bit more worth living.

 

[Steerpike]

I'm sure at least some of use have encountered some people in their lives who deem themselves as extremely practical and have stated their disbelief in superstitions, magic, and etc. What are some tricks that would floor a person like this? A trick that has little room for error as the person is extremely detail oriented, and a trick that might make them say, "well that impossible, but you just did it"?

Thanks,

Let me answer that with another question. Why do you care?

I've heard stories on here before of people performing tricks that made dropped the jaws of the most stubborn spectators. In some of those stories, the poster says that they were told later that what they just did changed their mindset and made them believe in magic.

So it's an ego thing for you then. But why do you need to alter someone's world view in order to consider yourself victorious? Why are you chasing after this?

You can't make everybody like your act. It's impossible. Why are you wasting your time trying to accomplish what's never going to happen in a stable universe?

 

[Craig Browning]

So if I told you I made the coin vanish by magical powers, you would just accept that? You wouldn't think it might be trickery?

Do you really think that there are some magicians that use real magical powers to vanish coins, and find selected cards?



So if they ask you, in all sincerity if that was real, what will you tell them? That it was a convincing trick, or that you really have powers?

If it's the latter, what will you say if they ask you to use your gifts to contact dead loved ones, or on what stocks to invest in, or lottery numbers? Or to heal them when they get sick?

Why are you deliberately trying to create a problem?

Contrary to popular belief, being a magician does not mean you must instantly become an atheist and hemorrhoid for anyone that claims belief in anything ranging from psi to god or ET.

I was just on a skeptics forum in which the biggest point of conversation centerd on the "dicks" from within the skeptic community that think they have to pull the very kind of crap you just did in this response. The consensus being that it's un-professional; disrepectful of both, the "cause" as well as those you attack; and when it get right down to it, it's just as immoral and wrong as those bloody missionaries knocking your door to save your soul or jerk preachers organzing a book burning.

I have helped bring down several criminal situations when it comes to Psychic Fraud but I am likewise a working Reader and have been since the late 70s and even come from a very long line of folks that do related things... in other words, I'm intricately linked to the "shut eye" side of it all. Yet, I tend to do far more when it comes to educating the public about fraud, helping deal with predators, etc. than 90+% of the big mouths out there offering this frame of banter. Individuals that actually know nothing about the psi world at the first hand point of view... if they did they've have a different attitude about things.

The other thing most magicians but more so, those involved with magic & mentalism today, forget that doing Readings is a key part of the Mentalists craft; it is how you get the Home Party gigs, Lectures and Workshop dates and more! It is a key part of "Old School" Mentalism vs. the Dunninger Mold everyone seems to embrace (kind of) now days... there's nothing wrong with the Dunninger idea, just the bastardization of it by magicians in order to justify calling everything they do "Mentalism"... when it's not!

Fact of the matter is, people come to see a Mind Reader in the hope of getting a Reading, not to watch you mutilate perfectly good flatware or find a word in a book. Every major act that's known success in this field does a Q&A or Psychometry styled act and that's just how it works... and yes, there are certain "ethical" and "moral" obligations for the Reader but that's much akin to a gun... guns don't hurt anyone... it's the fool welding it. Similarly, Readings don't ever hurt others in and of their own, it's the intent of the Reader... so give it a break and stop putting all of it under the same heading, it only makes you look like a fool in the greater scheme of life.

When it comes to people's beliefs or perceptions NO BODY has the right to tell anyone else what to believe or not believe, it's a matter of free will. While we can help them discover alternative truths over time, it is absolutely wrong to attack and demean them; where is the morality or ethics in such antics? It's pure ego and worse, it is schoolyard bully type mentality.

There are Seance scripts and routines designed for the magic market that help those that need the placebo of speaking with a deceased friend or loved one that would be far more productive and less damaging than this constant display of pseudo-intellectual arrogance. In fact there are tons of things within the world of true Mentalism the majority of you probably don't know about or even heard about because of who is influencing the scene these days and the agenda in question. My suggestion being that you do some footwork and find out about the HISTORY of this craft, the contributions of William Larsen, Dr. Q, Robert Nelson, Richard Webster, Ron Martin, Stephan Minch and more! Seek to learn about MENTALISM and not just more tricks.

Wake up and stop being an ass...