What do you do?

just out of plain curiosity if you have ever been in a situation where some one called you out and hit the nail right on the head like you palmed it or you did a double lift and they announce it at the top of their lungs what do you guys do? basicly how do you guys react?
 
Oct 17, 2007
860
0
29
Aussie NSW
Don't respond if you get into an argument you more or less giving them what they want. They want a reaction out of you, they want to feel big about themselves.
Either way with a double you could do a KM move.
Palmings a bit harder you would have to replace it.

Just dont react if its a double just ignore them if its palmed replace it on the deck casually under misdirection, and either continue on with the same effect but give it some time delay. Or continue into a different effect using there card.


Tom
 
Nov 20, 2007
4,410
6
Sydney, Australia
There's really no particular way to answer this. As Tom alluded to, there are many different ways of dealing with it.

One very commonly neglected one is simply to admit it. If you can't instantly think of a way to get out of it, just admit it - fumbling around trying to think about an out will only make it more obvious that they're right, and regardless of whether you recover afterwards, there's a fairly large dent in your performance because of it. There are many situations which could well be unrecover-able. But sometimes you can just quickly correct it, sometimes you can't.

If you can though (sometimes it doesn't happen for whatever reason... Not awake enough... Not good enough, something put you off, mind blank, etc), there are lots of different ways to recover from things. KM move is a good one for a double for example. It really depends on the sleights involved, the people involved, where you are at a performance (if you're in a mentalism routine for example, or a closer, it would definitely be worth/justified to take a bit longer to consider improvising an out), etc.

For your specific situation, a palm... it depends where you're palming it. If it's just near the top of a deck using a top palm, it's easy to replace it and get a double to show an indifferent card... and be a bit more careful. If your right hand is about to ditch a card into your right back pocket... Try reaching further, and putting it in your left back pocket. Then you can legitimately turn around, show your hands empty, and show your right back pocket empty too. That's just an on the spot thought - depending on the circumstances, I suppose it's a ruse that could work.
 
I usually give them a look of confusion and ask them to show me with the cards. Now if they say no the rest of the audience laughs and just forgets about what he said. If he says yes he usually doesnt do it as well as i did so people start heckling him saying things like "yea but i didnt see him (me) do that, His (mine) was smoother." The heckler usually gives up to avoid embarrassment but sometimes the heckler may be keen to the ways of cardistry so at the end of the show i pull him off to the side to have a nice gentlemans talk, then i kick his ass for breaking the first rule of magic. :)
 
Nov 16, 2008
2,267
0
36
In the not to distant future
if they say, i know how you did it, just smile and say, wow, so do I. if on the other hand your caught with a double or a palm, learn a couple clean placements from palm - decking the top in the paper engine, or a double peel off the the top card and say this card and act confused.
 
Nov 20, 2007
4,410
6
Sydney, Australia
I usually give them a look of confusion and ask them to show me with the cards. Now if they say no the rest of the audience laughs and just forgets about what he said. If he says yes he usually doesnt do it as well as i did so people start heckling him saying things like "yea but i didnt see him (me) do that, His (mine) was smoother." The heckler usually gives up to avoid embarrassment but sometimes the heckler may be keen to the ways of cardistry so at the end of the show i pull him off to the side to have a nice gentlemans talk, then i kick his ass for breaking the first rule of magic. :)

I'd have to say that's a terrible response in my opinion. Sorry, but confronting someone who catches you because of a mistake you did, making him look stupid, incapable, and then confronting him after the show? That's the exact opposite of what magic should be. If you made a mistake, cough up and heal it, don't make another spectator look bad because you ****ed up.

Do you like being heckled?

Then why are you setting your spectator up for heckling?

I thought magic was supposed to be entertaining?

Infected: The KM move is essentially a way to clean up a double and show just one card fairly. I'm not actually sure where to find the move in print - I "discovered" the move on my own and another magician told me its name - but it's probably in Card College somewhere or Royal Road lol.
 
Nov 26, 2008
71
0
I learned the KM move from Army of 52. It's a great move to know. I use it frequently.

hopefully not too frequently. :]

i used to sleeve cards when i get caught palming. People don't normally say "its up your sleeve" during your preformance
 
Jul 2, 2008
125
0
That is exactly what I do. I look confused and say, "What do you mean ------" (---- standing for whatever they said I did) and then I mime the action very sloppy as if it's not possible to cleanly turn over two cards at the same time, and ask them to try. Then, they decline, and they're shut down. Of course, you do this in a very nice manner as not to make them look like a complete fool infront of their friends, as spectators are what we're here for. But, if he'd done it two or three times, you may want to take the deck of cards and blatantly (without ANY palming) shove it down his throat.

Just a thought :)


I usually give them a look of confusion and ask them to show me with the cards. Now if they say no the rest of the audience laughs and just forgets about what he said. If he says yes he usually doesnt do it as well as i did so people start heckling him saying things like "yea but i didnt see him (me) do that, His (mine) was smoother." The heckler usually gives up to avoid embarrassment but sometimes the heckler may be keen to the ways of cardistry so at the end of the show i pull him off to the side to have a nice gentlemans talk, then i kick his ass for breaking the first rule of magic. :)
 
Nov 26, 2008
71
0
So what if they hit the nail on the head? In my expirence the person has been spouting random stuff the entire time that's way off. So the other laymen don't draw attention to him
 
May 3, 2008
1,146
4
Hong Kong
I dont get why we cant confront hecklers. It doesnt say anywhere that magicians are not allowed. We are meant to entertain, and we do. If that spectator decides to be an ass and ruin the show, then ruin it for him. If you confront it well, then everyone will still enjoy it. Its like watching a comedian. They are perfect at confronting hecklers and everyone still has a great time. do what you want. if you feel that the guy deserves a thrasing, then do it.

As others have said, a decent ditch will work well. A simple KM move, replacement, or handwash will work great.

I would also recommend the "you do it" thing. as yea... its been explained before.

You could also pull off something totally unexplainable such as.... the anaconda dribble and ask him how you did that. Most probably hell give you some random answer, which you can then resort to "you do it"

hecklers are fun....

but if it is a magician heckler, as in someone who is good at sleight of hand but is an ass, then you either admit it like all the other chickens suggest or you can confront him in a MAGIC BATTLE! i usually say something witty and walk off. Not as bad as admitting it.
 
Nov 20, 2007
4,410
6
Sydney, Australia
I'm not saying you can't. You can do whatever you want. I just don't believe it's a good idea.

Why?

Magicians have a long history of treating hecklers as an entirely different species. Truth is, really, they're just spectators.

Most magicians on T11 love saying "Oh yes, you must perform for the spectator at all times." It sounds great, doesn't it? Well, a heckler is a spectator too. Which leaves the question - do you perform for all spectators, or just the easy ones that suit you? I find a bit of hypocrisy in your post. First line, you say, we are meant to entertain. A few lines later, you're advocating ruining someone else's experience. To say that a heckler heckles because they're being an ass and ruining the show is a show of misunderstanding and inexperience. Many of the more experienced magicians here will have performed will hecklers, entertained hecklers, diffused hecklers, and befriended hecklers.

So maybe you genuinely did something wrong. Why take it out on a spectator, heckler or not? When you go out and perform, it's your job to entertain everyone. Not just the easy ones. So what if someone doesn't know how to behave properly? So what if they catch you in the act? A real magician will win a heckler over, and entertain them too, rather than dismissing and confronting them. It's the magician's job then to educate; to change the heckler's views about magic.

Remember, hecklers are just another spectator. If you wouldn't ruin the experience of a spectator who says "OMG YOU'RE AMAZING HOW THE **** DID YOU DO THAT?!?! HOLY **** YOU'RE A FREAK!!!" - then why would you ruin the experience of just another spectator?

The answer is simple. Magicians love holding grudges, and they're lazy. We want the easy spectators. Soon as someone acts inappropriately, we would rather just dismiss them and lay all the blame on them rather than doing out full job as a magician and entertaining everyone. We wouldn't think twice about the spectators who give you glory and praise. But as soon as we need to be different, as soon as we need to be better than that, then it's all too easy to say "That guy's just a bitter, selfish, f***er who wants attention."

Is that an excuse to not entertain?

I ask again: Are you truly performing to entertain all spectators - or only the ones who are willing to give you praise without effort?

A heckler is just another spectator, at the end of the day. They're not from Mars. They're not Satan. If you ruin the experience for any spectator, you have failed as a magician.
 
May 3, 2008
1,146
4
Hong Kong
If you ruin the experience for any spectator, you have failed as a magician.
Ah but the thing is, a spectator is someone who looks to be entertained. A heckler is a spectator who changes to someone who looks to be the entertainer. They want the attention so they stop being the person giving the attention. At that moment, hecklers stop being spectators but rather a performer. They stop seeking the given entertainment and searches for a different form. They search for entertainment through attention and praise, thus becoming a performing rather than a spectator.
 
Nov 20, 2007
4,410
6
Sydney, Australia
A heckler is a spectator who changes to someone who looks to be the entertainer. They want the attention so they stop being the person giving the attention.

This is correct only a small percentage of the time. People heckle for many reasons. Yes, some people simply want attention. But it is simplistic and all too easy to call all hecklers "people who want attention". We wish it were that easy - but the truth isn't so easy to deal with.

Why do people heckle? Sure, some of them want attention. But not nearly all of them.

For example: what about the spectator whose uncle or younger brother does a trick or two? It's pretty much human nature to mess around with the family member trying to perform. But what that does is form a spectator's attitude towards magic. He or she doesn't realise what they're doing is inappropriate. Which brings me to example two...

Someone who simply doesn't understand what they're meant to do as a spectator - what is appropriate and what isn't. Many people that we perform for are seeing magic live for the first time - they have no idea what is expected. It's up to the performer to quickly establish authority as the performer and magician.

Example three - a naturally curious person. To them, if they see a hint of a flash - it's simply human nature again to call you out on it. If you watch Criss Angel with a laymen friend, and your friend says "Wow he's amazing" - I'd bet that many, many magicians here would say "Ah but he's a fraud, he actually just uses camera editing." Now, isn't that similar to a layman saying "I think I saw you putting the card in your palm" or "There were two cards there" when someone asks "how did he do it?" The fact is, magicians are some of the worst hecklers - and if you can associate or imagine that situation with Criss Angel - you can see how easy it would be to "heckle" without knowingly doing so.

Example four - what about someone who by nature is direct? Someone who simply won't bs you. If they think something, they'll say it. Everyone knows someone who is like this.

The truth of the matter is, there are very many reasons why people "heckle". Yes, some people just want attention. But the majority don't. In all the cases above, it's the magician's job to gently demonstrate the correct behaviour appropriate to circumstance, it's the magician's job to change their perceptions about magic, it's the magician's job to convince the audience to suspend their disbelief. Then you will have succeeded as a magician.

It's too easy to say "Yeah but they just want attention." This is only true of a certain circumstance, by no means the majority. It's easy to say that because then we can blame the heckler. We don't have to do anything. But the truth is, most hecklers can and should be entertained. Many people heckle without realising it.

Were you to challenge any one of these people, make a joke at their expense, throw them the deck to make fun of them, challenge them and humiliate them - this is one of the worst possible circumstances you could create.

We just have to do our job, to not only the easy spectators but the more difficult ones as well, and understand that not all hecklers are the evil, gargantuan aliens we sometimes think them to be - but simply people. And just as one person will react differently than another, so will one "heckler" than another.
 
May 3, 2008
1,146
4
Hong Kong
I think were getting off topic though
reread the first post.
he was asking about someone who yells at the top of their lungs that you did a double lift or something. Not someone who goes like "ah... i saw that...." and just keeps watching. its someone who is being annoying as hell going "HAH! THAT WAS TWO! TWO CARDS! I SAW IT! IT WAS TWO CARDS!" I seriously doubt this person is any of the above examples.
 
Nov 20, 2007
4,410
6
Sydney, Australia
I think were getting off topic though
reread the first post.
he was asking about someone who yells at the top of their lungs that you did a double lift or something. Not someone who goes like "ah... i saw that...." and just keeps watching. its someone who is being annoying as hell going "HAH! THAT WAS TWO! TWO CARDS! I SAW IT! IT WAS TWO CARDS!" I seriously doubt this person is any of the above examples.

Believe it or not, they often are. Ok - to say that they jump up and down and buy a loudspeaker just to proclaim that you got a double is an exaggeration. But the average person who insists, "You've got two cards there! I'm sure you've got two cards, I saw it just then as you were picking it up!" - could well be one of them.

Nonetheless, you're right about getting a little off-topic - but I do think that it's important for magicians to know the different and act accordingly.
 
Jul 2, 2008
125
0
Here's my problem. Shutting someone down. Nice manner. Nope, doesn't correlate. Hate to break it to you, but there's nothing nice about shutting someone down - whether you say thank you or not - it's still shutting someone down.

Not true at all actually.

You CAN shut someone down in a nice manner. Think about it. Someone calls you on a double lift.

What do you say?

ANYTHING that you say is shutting them down, because you're not going to just say "yup, turned two."

So you must "prove them wrong" but do it so that you aren't really saying to them, "shut your mouth, stop talking, you're wrong, I'm right". You may ask them to show you, they decline nicely, and you continue.

You're just walking around saying everybody's opinion is garbage.
 

Michael Kras

{dg} poet laureate / theory11
Sep 12, 2007
1,268
3
Canada
www.magicanada.myfastforum.org
Reuben's on the right track here HOWEVER, Reuben, I think this is simply a case of miswording. "Shutting down" is an inherently cruel action, a more appropriate description would be "misproving".

Anyways, on this topic... it definitely cannot be answered without a specificly referenced sleight or move that is being "caught". If someone calls me out, I play it off as a mistake (if the situation permits). For example, a double lift... someone might see me hit it or something (which can sometimes happen if I'm being hasty), and they shout "YOU TURNED OVER TWO!". I give them a confused look, then look back at the cards in my hand, pretend to just notice this unlikely mistake, and mutter "darn cards stick together sometimes" as I casually turn the double over again. Then, I will either jazz or use an alternative method to reach my desired magical result.
 
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