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What is Magic?
- Thread starter Dylan P.
- Start date
But you don't know it all, in fact, prove us wrong. Put up some video feed of you performing you "Elite Prestidigitation" for those around you. We have cited many great magicians and you have tried, but failed, to shoot them down. So far, I think you just have things backwards.
Translation = bla bla bla.
To everyone else:
The sooner you stop feeding the troll, the sooner the troll will go away. That is of course unless he or she has no life. Either way, pathetic is pathetic.
Sometimes I feel like we alienate people in these forums... But then I think about what they have said in the past and realize that they only alienate themselves...
You're overthinking it here. The truth? Elite Prestidigitation is some retarded little 10 year old who knows he can't do magic so he thinks he's almighty.... talking... like... this... because he knows absolutely nothing. Oh, and if we're lucky, he'll take... us.... under.... his.... wing... and teach us something. Two words: he fails.
Just ignore his posts. Do not respond to his claims, comments, questions, etc... If he posts in one of your threads, ignore it. If he creates a thread, ignore it. Even if he attacks you and you want to respond, do not. There is no point in trying to logically debate with someone when the opposing party has no intention of doing the same. Trolls like him get high off of seeing people get irritated at their posts and only post to produce those kinds of responses.
At times, there are some interesting ideas within the trash of his posts, but all we need to do is take those ideas and start our own conversations around them (whilst ignoring him of course). Let's start now!
I feel at times, using lines like, "now if you sprinkle the fairy dust on the card like this, it will change!" can be ridiculous and most of the times, those lines are used inappropriately leaving an awkwardness surrounding the presentation. However, lines like, "now this may seem ridiculous, but let's leave logic behind and just believe for a moment that this can happen! SNAP! Now the card has changed" can be extremely powerful in a presentation.
At times, there are some interesting ideas within the trash of his posts, but all we need to do is take those ideas and start our own conversations around them (whilst ignoring him of course). Let's start now!
I feel at times, using lines like, "now if you sprinkle the fairy dust on the card like this, it will change!" can be ridiculous and most of the times, those lines are used inappropriately leaving an awkwardness surrounding the presentation. However, lines like, "now this may seem ridiculous, but let's leave logic behind and just believe for a moment that this can happen! SNAP! Now the card has changed" can be extremely powerful in a presentation.
Guys:
I thought EP's response to my post was on topic and made some good points. No need to go after him when he posts a well thought out response. I know his posts have a bit of arrogance to them, but that is his character and he plays it well. Anyway, I take it all as being tongue-in-cheek. Also, just because he comes across as a know it all, don't assume he doesn't know ANYTHING. Don't let the messenger interfere with the message.
Finally, making personal attacks on him doesn't help matters. In fact, those attacks do more to derail threads than his posts. You guys mean well, but it does more harm than good. Engage him on the topics, test his theories and judge him on his ideas.
I disagree with the idea that the audience is there to see but not listen. They are there to be entertained and astonished, which begs the question of what is the best way to entertain and astonish? I think that engaging multiple senses works better than engaging a single sense. Part of the effectiveness of good patter is that it distracts the spectators from the method because it causes them to split their attention between the patter and the effect. Additionally, good patter can provide a frame or context for the effect. I've talked to people after performances and asked them what they liked best. They usually respond with "the one where you were talking about X and did Y." I think the benefit of this is that it takes the focus off of the method (how did he do that?) and makes the spectator look at the whole experience (that was neat what he did).
To me, presenting magic as skill suggests that there is a solution and that makes it more likely that the spectator will view it as a puzzle. I realize that you don't do this unless the spectator asks, but they are more likely to ask if there is nothing else to the presentation except the trick. There is a great interview by Dan and Dave on Reel Magic which touches on this.
I think we agree on the cheesy lines. Those lines are not good presentation. I don't I don't tell my spectators that I'm doing magic unless it is a kids show. But at the same time, I don't do anything to convince them that it is something other than magic.
As for the patter I use, most of it is my own. The patter from the 70's or 80's wouldn't work today just as All in the Family, The Waltons or Knightrider wouldn't work today as TV shows. If you are interested, I can post examples of my patter.
I agree about presentations that sound memorized. You have to present your patter as if it is spontanious or a better word would be extemporaneous. However, don't underestimate the power of stories. Listen to conversations that people have. The vast majority of those conversations are stories. Listen to comedians... most to their jokes are stories. Now, not all patter needs to be a story, but a good story can make good patter.
Other than different thoughts on patter, we seem to be in general agreement on what magic is.
I thought EP's response to my post was on topic and made some good points. No need to go after him when he posts a well thought out response. I know his posts have a bit of arrogance to them, but that is his character and he plays it well. Anyway, I take it all as being tongue-in-cheek. Also, just because he comes across as a know it all, don't assume he doesn't know ANYTHING. Don't let the messenger interfere with the message.
Finally, making personal attacks on him doesn't help matters. In fact, those attacks do more to derail threads than his posts. You guys mean well, but it does more harm than good. Engage him on the topics, test his theories and judge him on his ideas.
I disagree with the idea that the audience is there to see but not listen. They are there to be entertained and astonished, which begs the question of what is the best way to entertain and astonish? I think that engaging multiple senses works better than engaging a single sense. Part of the effectiveness of good patter is that it distracts the spectators from the method because it causes them to split their attention between the patter and the effect. Additionally, good patter can provide a frame or context for the effect. I've talked to people after performances and asked them what they liked best. They usually respond with "the one where you were talking about X and did Y." I think the benefit of this is that it takes the focus off of the method (how did he do that?) and makes the spectator look at the whole experience (that was neat what he did).
To me, presenting magic as skill suggests that there is a solution and that makes it more likely that the spectator will view it as a puzzle. I realize that you don't do this unless the spectator asks, but they are more likely to ask if there is nothing else to the presentation except the trick. There is a great interview by Dan and Dave on Reel Magic which touches on this.
I think we agree on the cheesy lines. Those lines are not good presentation. I don't I don't tell my spectators that I'm doing magic unless it is a kids show. But at the same time, I don't do anything to convince them that it is something other than magic.
As for the patter I use, most of it is my own. The patter from the 70's or 80's wouldn't work today just as All in the Family, The Waltons or Knightrider wouldn't work today as TV shows. If you are interested, I can post examples of my patter.
I agree about presentations that sound memorized. You have to present your patter as if it is spontanious or a better word would be extemporaneous. However, don't underestimate the power of stories. Listen to conversations that people have. The vast majority of those conversations are stories. Listen to comedians... most to their jokes are stories. Now, not all patter needs to be a story, but a good story can make good patter.
Other than different thoughts on patter, we seem to be in general agreement on what magic is.
Hey everyone! All great ideas and thoughts coming this way. If anyone is trolling just remember to report them and just ignore their posts. no reaso to start a fight. Anyway, really good ideas coming out now
getting back on topic, I would agree with you. I have a trick based on that question that I like to do to people.
I use Joshua Jays split decision. Just in case someone reading this hasn't seen the trick im gonna explain it.
Basically, two cards are selected and shown to two people. also you have different people help each spectator remember their card. So each card is shown around to people. Then you lose them in the deck and the way josh does it is he says hes going to find one card by sleight of hand the other by magic. So he gets the first one shows it and its right for the first persons card. Then he goes for the next one. He holds the card up and asks the audience what the other card was. Half the people say 9 of clubs and the other half say no it was the ace of diamonds. Then he rips the card down the center and shows each half one at a time one side the 9 of clubs and the other side is the ace and how they fit together perfectly.
So what I do is when someone asks "What is magic?" I comment on how I get asked that a lot, then I tell them some other related things people have asked." Like, since I know the secret if it ruins it for me. But I tell them the question "what is magic" is one I can't answer. People have their own definitions of what magic is to them, what they know it to be. The dictionary says its producing illusions or sleight of hand, and a lot of the time people define it as the impossible. I decided im not gonna define it, or even try to. Instead im going to show you sleight of hand and then what looks like magic..." then I go into the trick from there.
It's a very simple trick, but it hits hard.
~Nikki
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