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What is right and wrong on YouTube?

j.p

Jul 10, 2012
62
0
Birmingham
www.twitter.com
Hey guys,

I am really curious to know what you think is right and wrong on YouTube. For example, it goes without saying that tutorials on theory11 tricks are wrong (there is already a sticky about that). But what is acceptable?

Are tutorials for the most basic sleights such as the DL acceptable? Should putting videos on YouTube of poor performances of paid tricks be allowed (I have learnt a few paid tricks by watching poor performances)? At the end of the day, this will always happen but it's a question of is it morally right or wrong. What do you guys think is wrong or right?

Thanks.
 
Jul 25, 2012
178
1
Detroit, MI
Oh boy....this seem's like something you would have to talk to a pro about, talk to Lyle, Rick, William Draven or RealityOne, they may have the anwser you're looking for.
 
Hey guys,

I am really curious to know what you think is right and wrong on YouTube. For example, it goes without saying that tutorials on theory11 tricks are wrong (there is already a sticky about that). But what is acceptable?

Are tutorials for the most basic sleights such as the DL acceptable? Should putting videos on YouTube of poor performances of paid tricks be allowed (I have learnt a few paid tricks by watching poor performances)? At the end of the day, this will always happen but it's a question of is it morally right or wrong. What do you guys think is wrong or right?

Thanks.

There's two sides to this coin. You have right and wrong in the sense of legalities. The kinds of things that people can have you arrested or sued for, and then there's right and wrong in the moral or ethical sense. Violating those won't get you arrested, but it can be just as damning to your career and reputation. Trust me I know first hand.

The problem with copy rights and magic tricks is you can't copyright a move. I can sit here and film tutorials all day long to published tricks like say Dress Code and put them up on youtube. Unless I'm uploading the original video legally there's nothing that can be done. I haven't violated any legal copy rights. Ethically though, I've just become the biggest douche dumpster this side of the net.

Posting tutorials, even basic sleights that are communal property, is frowned upon because it is, at the most basic level, exposure. Exposure in magic seems to be defined by an intrinsic definition. In other words if the information is readily available, with no price to be paid (monetary or otherwise), where anyone can easily see it or access it in mass, then it's exposure. Putting up your tutorial on a double lift on youtube would certainly qualify as that.

To add onto that, unless your a savant, you're double lift video may not be any good anyways. You may be doing more harm than good by posting a tutorial. You see this a lot with kids on youtube these days. They get a trick, they BARELY learn it, they haven't practiced it at all, and they're up there posting tutorials like they're some kind of pro. If you've just got started in magic then you are a student, not a teacher. You have no business posting tutorials until you've put the time and the practice into learning the craft. I'm talking about years of practice.

There is nothing wrong with filming and watching bad performances in self review. It helps you learn what you're doing wrong, but you shouldn't be posting bad videos on the net. There's no excuse for it. Not when you can edit, and refilm as much as you need until you get it right.

So at the end of the day there's nothing right about tutorials. Unless it's your own material, then do with as you please. Just don't do it. It's not worth the backlash you'll endure.
 

j.p

Jul 10, 2012
62
0
Birmingham
www.twitter.com
I totally agree with all of this. Just to clarify I have not made any tutorials or even performances on YouTube. It just annoys me how there are so many kids on YouTube who think they are good, post performances and pretty much expose how magic is done.

I was watching a video the other day, and the perosn flashed very badly. I thought 'why doesn't this person re do the video?'.

Thanks. :)
 

Jebzy

Elite Member
Jun 22, 2012
213
72
26
Latvia
You are right, there are many kids on YouTube, but there are many adults too and, maybe, it is not right, but I haven't bought anything. Everything what I know and what I do came just from YouTube. I don't like when they reveal good, new tricks, but there you can learn sleight of hand very well. And there are lots and lots of many old tricks that no one remember now.
Every beginner start doing magic with YouTube and it is cool, because you don't have to pay for magic from beginning, then you realize - you wanna be magician or not.


I was watching a video the other day, and the perosn flashed very badly. I thought 'why doesn't this person re do the video?'.

True, one person putted video in this forum and flashed very badly. If you put the bad video in YouTube, at least don't put it in the forum. I was so angry about it, but anyway, yea, there are lot of bad performances on YouTube.
 

j.p

Jul 10, 2012
62
0
Birmingham
www.twitter.com
I agree with this as well. But you can get books for very cheap prices which WILL make you a better magician. With books, you actually have to think, but with videos you usually just copy. Also there are so many people on YouTube who teach things that they can't do themselves, it's unreal. There are some good things to be picked up with YouTube, such as inspiration, but there are also many bad habits...
 
There is vast change in the people as the technology changes drastically. Youtube is obviously the best method of learning so many things with the help of videos but many are often mis-using it. No one can tell that it is good or bad but it depends upon the usage and the individuals.
 
May 9, 2012
202
0
New York
im not sure if posting a bad performance is immoral... but frankly, it is stupid. i've figured out at least 3 tricks from bad performances. i wish there was something we could do about exposure on youtube bt as William said, if they do their own tutorial, we cant do anything legally. the most we can do is post fake tutorials to make it more difficult to find real ones. this is my favorite: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51G7gAZy7Ko
 

Justin.Morris

Elite Member
Aug 31, 2007
2,758
871
Canada
www.morrismagic.ca
You know the adage "You get what you pay for"?...

Well in magic, youtube tutorials are the slough of magic.

Granted you don't always have to pay to get quality magic, but aside from the exception on youtube, you are not going to find good material, teaching, handling, presentation etc. You are better off sticking to library books, learned pig material, or amazon (I picked up Bobo's MCM for $3 plus shipping) etc.

Think of it this way - people who are really good at magic and what they do are not posting tutorials on youtube. The people who THINK they are good and want attention because they can't get paying gigs, then buy stuff and post it on youtube. (There are exceptions I realize, but I'm speaking on the whole)

I remember a number of years ago I wanted to learn a bottom deal, and the video I saw taught me totally wrong. I practised and practised, and now since learning it right, I still have such a hard time breaking the habits I formed. Super frustrating.

If you are a majority youtube learner, start breaking away and your skill level will explode.
 
Aug 17, 2012
1
0
Florida.....ugh.
If it wasn't for You tube i wouldn't of gotten into magic. That's how i started! Is that bad ? possibly but i don't really care cause im having a blast. Also if it wasn't for you tube i wouldn't of found Theory 11 or Ellusionist and found all the amazing videos WORTH paying for! I agree, break away from you tube as soon as you can but if it got you started in magic then it can't be that bad!
 

Justin.Morris

Elite Member
Aug 31, 2007
2,758
871
Canada
www.morrismagic.ca
If it wasn't for You tube i wouldn't of gotten into magic. That's how i started! Is that bad ? possibly but i don't really care cause im having a blast. Also if it wasn't for you tube i wouldn't of found Theory 11 or Ellusionist and found all the amazing videos WORTH paying for! I agree, break away from you tube as soon as you can but if it got you started in magic then it can't be that bad!

It's bad if it gives you a bad start, and a lack of appreciation for the history, depth, and professionalism of the artistic side. Magic does not need more secrets revealed. At EMC this year Paul Daniels made some REALLY strong and significant comments about the maked magicain shows. His words sparked a large round of applause. Everyone starts somewhere tho. I remember getting a bit hosed by the magic shop guy in my starting years. He would talk me into buying crap stuff intead of anything good or helpful. I had to pay my dues that way I suppose. And I suppose leaernign bad techniqe on youtube will be the new way of paying your dues when you're new to magic.
 
Jan 1, 2009
2,241
3
Back in Time
The problem with youtube is that MOST people on there have zero showmanship skills and zero misdirection. Which while not entirely their fault. (it's pretty much impossible to misdirect a webcam or camera..) the problem is that they rely too much on it and too much on fooling a machine.. One that doesn't blink or even react at all to the routine or effect.

Now there are a few people who have shown things on youtube that were very good, but usually these are from demo reels for products or actually performances for real people. So you are not just sitting there watching somebody stumble over their words and have the webcam zoomed in on their hands, trying to make all their moves sub sonic speeds.

Another lesson to be learned is that not even the top guys can fool a video camera. Case in point David Williamson doing the Top Change for Dan and Dave.. When he wasn't explaining the sleight you could still see something going on, and the game was pretty much given away. But when he does it live for real people it's a completely different thing, and I just realized I went off the tracks a bit.

If I was going to say one thing. Youtube is good IF you put up actual performances of yourself performing for real people. (Which can be a bit tricky, due to having to get a competent camera person and asking people if they wouldn't mind being recorded...)
 
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