White Magic: My Review

Aug 30, 2012
232
1
I just finished watching it and I will say, no disrespect to Dan, but I was a bit disappointed as well. I know he posses WAY more talent than what he displayed.

My wife has seen me perform for over 14 years and she stopped watching the show because of how "staged" and preset up everything was. She picked up on the ring being borrowed from the farthest guy on the right, and immediately said "Isn't that just a borrowed himber ring?" I am in agreement with Scott that I was "hoping" for more of French Kiss with Smoke type effects which doesn't require footage to be edited out. She laughed at the Harry Potter book thing and said the same thing Scott did, A Harry Potter book wouldn't be on an end cap in the book store all by itself with other books the way it was set up.
I understand a lot of TV effects are staged with "friends" of magicians and camera crews but I was expecting to see more of Dan's sleight of hand talent. Maybe there will be more to come in the next few episodes. I will definitely continue to watch.

I will admit I enjoyed the 2nd episode more that the first. The driving thing was a bit silly but the broken glass was at least a little more believable. Did you happen to see that one?
 
Apr 6, 2011
540
6
Lansing, MI
I think the line between deception and straight up lying is something created by what I have heard described as "Magician's Guilt" we lie when we say we shuffle the deck or when we tell them there are only so many coins. So at some point our conscience gets the better of us and we take the pseudo high ground by not using gimmick decks or gaff coins or stooges in order to create magic that would otherwise be impossible. I respect your opinion and the fact that you stand by it as I do mine

I have no problems with gimmicks or gaffs, I just don't lie about them. However the line here is a very murky one. I cannot define it personally, but I can tell you that while I think gimmicks and gaffs and even complicated set ups are acceptable, stooges and camera editing are not. And instant stooges are in my opinion the worst of all, and it always disappoints me to see magicians I respect use them (not saying that has anything to do with this).
 

RickEverhart

forum moderator / t11
Elite Member
Sep 14, 2008
3,638
469
43
Louisville, OH
Great conversation going here fellas. Love the thoughts, input, and opinions. Let's just keep everything respectful and try to not see everything just the way "we" want to see it. Always listen to others.

Tyler, you made a great point about Dan's ingenuity. That is along the lines of what I was thinking. I wanted to see some of his strolling expertise in real world scenarios with no set ups because I know he could fry people's minds without doing it the way it happened in this particular TV episode.

Scott, my wife is my biggest critiquer. It is tough to get things by her unless it is just raw sleight of hand and even at that she picks up on double lifts, get ready's, breaks, etc. Ha Ha. I don't even like taking her to magic shows because she doesn't view magic the way a layman does anymore.

I've only watched the Driving episode and not the other laying in glass one yet.
 
Jun 13, 2013
21
0
Great conversation going here fellas. Love the thoughts, input, and opinions. Let's just keep everything respectful and try to not see everything just the way "we" want to see it. Always listen to others.

Tyler, you made a great point about Dan's ingenuity. That is along the lines of what I was thinking. I wanted to see some of his strolling expertise in real world scenarios with no set ups because I know he could fry people's minds without doing it the way it happened in this particular TV episode.

Scott, my wife is my biggest critiquer. It is tough to get things by her unless it is just raw sleight of hand and even at that she picks up on double lifts, get ready's, breaks, etc. Ha Ha. I don't even like taking her to magic shows because she doesn't view magic the way a layman does anymore.
Agreed. Being married is the greatest thing in the world! But thats another topic!
 
Aug 30, 2012
232
1
I have no problems with gimmicks or gaffs, I just don't lie about them. However the line here is a very murky one. I cannot define it personally, but I can tell you that while I think gimmicks and gaffs and even complicated set ups are acceptable, stooges and camera editing are not. And instant stooges are in my opinion the worst of all, and it always disappoints me to see magicians I respect use them (not saying that has anything to do with this).

SO if they asked you if that was a normal deck of cards and it wasn't you would tell them the truth? I don't condone camera editing personally and that is where I think the man made line comes into play. Everyone has their own personal stance on how far is too far. some people won't use gimmicks, others no stooges, others nothing that requires set up...it's a subjective stance we all take
 
Aug 30, 2012
232
1
Great conversation going here fellas. Love the thoughts, input, and opinions. Let's just keep everything respectful and try to not see everything just the way "we" want to see it. Always listen to others.

Tyler, you made a great point about Dan's ingenuity. That is along the lines of what I was thinking. I wanted to see some of his strolling expertise in real world scenarios with no set ups because I know he could fry people's minds without doing it the way it happened in this particular TV episode.

Scott, my wife is my biggest critiquer. It is tough to get things by her unless it is just raw sleight of hand and even at that she picks up on double lifts, get ready's, breaks, etc. Ha Ha. I don't even like taking her to magic shows because she doesn't view magic the way a layman does anymore.

I've only watched the Driving episode and not the other laying in glass one yet.

I think you will enjoy the glass episode better. I was expecting more strolling spur of the moment magic myself. And I understand about your wife. Its harder to get anything past my fiancée than anyone else. She sees more than most and watching dan's show with her was interesting. She liked some of it but the poor guy that came on afterwards...she tore him apart...
 
Jun 13, 2013
21
0
Josh justified the trick with the card stuck to the sign through an email converstion. I'll give that one away as being some what practical or at least performable if that method is true. But hard to pull off given the environment.
 
Apr 6, 2011
540
6
Lansing, MI
Haha yes they has actually happened to me many times. I just blatantly tell them "of course not, it is a very magical deck of cards, let me show you.." I find that sometimes the truth is more deceptive than any lie.

And while it is a personal stance, it does effect the entire reputation of magic. So it isn't something we should just put down to individual taste, at least in my opinion. It's to the effect of some people choosing to eat a lot of fast food in america, and then america having a reputation as a glutenous nation. It's a personal choice, but it effects everyone you're associated with. Now as to who is right or wrong, that is up for debate, and I don't personally have a proper argument for my stance, it's just the way I feel.

Edit: Josh, I fully understand. The instant stooge opinion is a very personal one, and one that I definitely cannot defend. Something about that idea just really nags at me. I just wouldn't want people out there knowing or talking about their part in it.
 

Luis Vega

Elite Member
Mar 19, 2008
1,800
207
35
Leon, Guanajuato Mexico
luisvega.com.mx
I just finished watching it and I will say, no disrespect to Dan, but I was a bit disappointed as well. I know he posses WAY more talent than what he displayed.

My wife has seen me perform for over 14 years and she stopped watching the show because of how "staged" and preset up everything was. She picked up on the ring being borrowed from the farthest guy on the right, and immediately said "Isn't that just a borrowed himber ring?" I am in agreement with Scott that I was "hoping" for more of French Kiss with Smoke type effects which doesn't require footage to be edited out. She laughed at the Harry Potter book thing and said the same thing Scott did, A Harry Potter book wouldn't be on an end cap in the book store all by itself with other books the way it was set up.
I understand a lot of TV effects are staged with "friends" of magicians and camera crews but I was expecting to see more of Dan's sleight of hand talent. Maybe there will be more to come in the next few episodes. I will definitely continue to watch.


I was very dissapointed as well...I expected something more...well more...

He has lots of talent...I was hoping to see more...organic magic and good presentations... it looked like "another" magician doing magic in tv....
 
Jan 22, 2012
418
1
Btw... for a non-us resident like me... white magic sounds a little racist...just saying...

Yes many of my relatives believed that it sounded kind of racist too. I had very mixed feelings about the show, I only got to see one effect from the first episode and I was not too thrilled. The second one though had a couple of things I liked but not too much. I really enjoyed when Dan White performed one of Calen Morelli's soda effects. The glass thing was cool but only thing that I thought was cool was seeing Francis Menotti and Blake Vogt, who was reppin a fontaine shirt, in the background.
 
Jun 13, 2013
21
0
I just wanted to add something. It takes a lot of guts, hard work, prayer and a good team to make your dreams happen. He made it happen and God Bless him. I wasn't jumping up and down about the special but hopefully the lay people enjoyed it because in the end thats all that matters.
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,786
15
I have no problems with gimmicks or gaffs, I just don't lie about them. However the line here is a very murky one. I cannot define it personally, but I can tell you that while I think gimmicks and gaffs and even complicated set ups are acceptable, stooges and camera editing are not. And instant stooges are in my opinion the worst of all, and it always disappoints me to see magicians I respect use them (not saying that has anything to do with this).

I lie all the time. I lie like a dog. Hell, I tell people during my act that some of the answers I divine are through reading body language and micro-expressions. Yes, I have studied this stuff for years, but it's a damned lie. I use one-ahead or a billet switch or something. I've been called out by specs who correctly guessed the method, then lied to their faces that wasn't what I did and they believed me. "It's a magical deck of cards," is not a truth, it's a lie. There is nothing inherently magical about a stack of pasteboards. Ideally, it should be totally incidental anyway.

Look, if you don't want to use stooges, don't. But don't **** on me for having used them on occasion because it turned out to be the most effective way to do the effect given the circumstances. It really doesn't matter if it rankles to have to share the spotlight for a second with a dude that the audience isn't even supposed to know is in cahoots with you. The use of stooges as an acid test to determine a good magician or a bad magician is kind of juvenile. The problem isn't that Criss Angel uses stooges. It's that he's so bad at it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Apr 6, 2011
540
6
Lansing, MI
I lie all the time. I lie like a dog. Hell, I tell people during my act that some of the answers I divine are through reading body language and micro-expressions. Yes, I have studied this stuff for years, but it's a damned lie. I use one-ahead or a billet switch or something. I've been called out by specs who correctly guessed the method, then lied to their faces that wasn't what I did and they believed me. "It's a magical deck of cards," is not a truth, it's a lie. There is nothing inherently magical about a stack of pasteboards. Ideally, it should be totally incidental anyway.

Look, if you don't want to use stooges, don't. But don't **** on me for having used them on occasion because it turned out to be the most effective way to do the effect given the circumstances. It really doesn't matter if it rankles to have to share the spotlight for a second with a dude that the audience isn't even supposed to know is in cahoots with you. The use of stooges as an acid test to determine a good magician or a bad magician is kind of juvenile. The problem isn't that Criss Angel uses stooges. It's that he's so bad at it.

At some point in the next few days, once the holidays (and my head) settle down a little, I'm gonna take the time to come up with a coherent, logical argument here. For now I just have to say I disagree. And I hope someone else will keep this argument going because it is a good one to have.
 
Aug 11, 2007
35
0
I was very dissapointed as well...I expected something more...well more...

He has lots of talent...I was hoping to see more...organic magic and good presentations... it looked like "another" magician doing magic in tv....

This has been mentioned many times in the thread. It's safe to say we all know just how talented Mr. White is.

I'm surprised that no one yet in these 5 pages considered the other side of this show: the network, producers and executives. Dan wanted a show, they want "reality" entertainment.

I'm sure if Dan called all the shots and had his say about what is performed, we all would be seeing a different show...maybe.

Just consider the possibility that the network had a lot of say here.
 

RickEverhart

forum moderator / t11
Elite Member
Sep 14, 2008
3,638
469
43
Louisville, OH
Good call Brian. I didn't really stop and think of that yet either, but I guess if it was my TV special I would want to be the one calling the shots as far as the material being performed.
 
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