who else doesnt want the dvd?

Sep 8, 2007
96
0
42
Adelaide, Australia
I really don't think that 30 dollars for a DVD that comes with the gimmick, teaches you an alternate routine, and goes in depth into the subtelties that makes it better is too expensive.

I think that considering the gimmicks come with the DVD the price is fairly reasonable also.
Personally I'm more of a fan of multiple effects on a DVD or in a book, but the way that the magic community is going now days people would rather pay for one routine they will use than a book or DVD with 12 and only use 1 of them.
 
Sep 1, 2007
230
1
39
Cleveland, Ohio
Well the moving pip card gimmick CAN be bought separately at various magic shops (or hand made yourself). As for the Panic gimmick, that too could be made yourself if youre on such a tight budget. Though I must say that both dvd have some great ideas and presentation suggestions. I have about 10 years perfomance experience and I still enjoyed watching the dvds. Aaron Fisher is a SUPERB teacher. I wish more magic literature was taught in that fashion.
 
Sep 2, 2007
1,693
1
Well the moving pip card gimmick CAN be bought separately at various magic shops (or hand made yourself). As for the Panic gimmick, that too could be made yourself if youre on such a tight budget.

The 5x5 Moving Pips is selling for $29.99 at my local magic store, so one might as well by Distortion at $24.95.

As for the Panic gimmick, that too could be made yourself if youre on such a tight budget.

He did make the Panic gimmick, but it didn't turn out well because it's not professionally crafted.

Cheers,
JTM
 
Sep 1, 2007
586
0
Cornwall
without offending those E brainwashed people (aka exposing to much)

ive already made templates for panic, and already have a prototype printed
but i need more ink lala

this took me about 2 hours of skanning, photoshop and printing (hey its sunday...) and i have 1 piece of the gimmick that can fool anybody...
what did it cost me?
other than time and maybe a few pennies of ink...

so for something that costs me less than a dollar for "all pieces of the gimmick"
that looks identicle to the real gimmicks...is it really worth it to spend say 20$ for the gimmick itself?



as for distortion...i see it being sold on other sites (just the card) for about 5$
 
without offending those E brainwashed people (aka exposing to much)

ive already made templates for panic, and already have a prototype printed
but i need more ink lala

this took me about 2 hours of skanning, photoshop and printing (hey its sunday...) and i have 1 piece of the gimmick that can fool anybody...
what did it cost me?
other than time and maybe a few pennies of ink...

so for something that costs me less than a dollar for "all pieces of the gimmick"
that looks identicle to the real gimmicks...is it really worth it to spend say 20$ for the gimmick itself?



as for distortion...i see it being sold on other sites (just the card) for about 5$
That's fantastic. But the gaffs are only a part of what makes this trick so hard-hitting. Where are you going to get Aaron's tips on the handling, working, routining (including Widespread Panic) and presentation (which can be applied to all of your magic)? And how will you support the man who created the trick, when without him, you wouldn't be performing it? I don't know.

Maybe Aaron said it better (he meant to post this here, but mistakenly posted it in a thread about Digital Dissolve).
Hey Guys,

As you may guess, my very first Panic was handmade - I was afraid it wouldn't fool people. Of course, I'm always concerned about that when i have a new trick, so that's nothing new. As I found out, homemade gaffs will work - sort of. I got away with the trick, but I was always paranoid. I knew when I had the props assembled professionally, I'd feel a great deal better.

When the props arrived i was thrilled.

Ultimately, the gaffs are only a small part of what makes the effect work. The other issues I talk about on the DVD are the key to making the trick a real miracle. After you learn THOSE lessons - the props you use (in general) won't make much difference any more - because you'll be able to do magic.

Gratefully,
Aaron
 
Sep 8, 2007
96
0
42
Adelaide, Australia
Some people don't actually care about the art, they just care about tricking people. Phenomena seems to be one of these people. As long as he's looked after, who cares about the rest of the community.

It's a shame that there are people like this in magic as it will deter magicians from releasing quality magic. They know that they will just upload it, share it, or just reverse engineer it rather than spend a small amount of money supporting all the hours that they have devoted to the effect.

It's a sorry state of affairs.

BTW, E is not the only site that is against exposure, ask any real magician on any site, and they will be against wide spread and indiscriminate distribution of secrets.
 
Some people don't actually care about the art, they just care about tricking people. Phenomena seems to be one of these people. As long as he's looked after, who cares about the rest of the community.

It's a shame that there are people like this in magic as it will deter magicians from releasing quality magic. They know that they will just upload it, share it, or just reverse engineer it rather than spend a small amount of money supporting all the hours that they have devoted to the effect.

It's a sorry state of affairs.

BTW, E is not the only site that is against exposure, ask any real magician on any site, and they will be against wide spread and indiscriminate distribution of secrets.
There is so much truth in this. I 100% agree with you, just as all other ethical magicians do.
 
Sep 1, 2007
586
0
Cornwall
your a fool

why would i spend 30$ when i can get basically the same thing for half that?

its like shopping for something, you dont buy it the first store you see it at, you shop around and go where the deal is at


so because i want to save myself some money
i dunno about you, but i live on my own, have my own apartment (no roomates to chip in on costs) work a crappy job for 8 hours a day ( "you will have no problem finding a job in this area with this environmental sciences course"...then explain why nobody hires me because of lack of experience...how do you get hired for lack of experience if you cant get experience because you dont get hired for no experience?)

you sound like either a pubescent teenager who only has to pull mommys leg to get what he wants

or your a grown adult with to many cards up his rear
i suggest you get off your high horse and stop trying to belittle others who are giving valid suggestions to the community


to say something idiotic such as "oh he doesnt care about the art, only exposing it" proves your somebody who thinks highly of himself, and less of others, probably a social outcast.

do not speak to me unless you have something constructive to say, instead of petty jabs at my character.
 
Aug 31, 2007
467
1
Canada
Oh come on. You have got to be kidding me.

You are thinking in the exact opposite way of what you should. Basically everything you said in your first post is the thinking that the secrets and the gimmicks are the trick, and once you have those, you don't need any instructions or guidance.

I am one who also sees the methods to effects quite often when I see them done.

Also, I am quite adept at constructing my own gimmicks and often will RE construct gimmicks that I own.

I am even MORE inclined to get the supporting materials for effects as other peoples thoughts and input are invaluable, especially from the creators of effects.

IF anything you should want the DVD's MORE. Especially at the prices they are avaliable at.
 
Sep 1, 2007
586
0
Cornwall
i believe in myself and my ability to create my own routines, not do a carbon copy of what aaron spews out at us off the dvd

again, if i choose not to follow his direct rules, and my performance sufferes because of that, i have nobody to blame but myself


its funny because i only suggest the gimmicks be sold separatly from the dvd's

and i get slagged for "not supporting the art"
"exposing"

grow up people.
 
Bottom line: Theory 11 cares about the art of magic. They are making you buy the gimmick with the DVD so that you learn and perform the trick correctly, because the Number 1 problem with magic is bad magic.
 
Sep 1, 2007
586
0
Cornwall
thats a good point, and i accept that point

but you people seem to forget that this is a busisness, and busisnesses want to make money

over the years ive seen so many people who seem blind to this fact.
 
Sep 8, 2007
96
0
42
Adelaide, Australia
your a fool

why would i spend 30$ when i can get basically the same thing for half that?

its like shopping for something, you dont buy it the first store you see it at, you shop around and go where the deal is at


so because i want to save myself some money
i dunno about you, but i live on my own, have my own apartment (no roomates to chip in on costs) work a crappy job for 8 hours a day ( "you will have no problem finding a job in this area with this environmental sciences course"...then explain why nobody hires me because of lack of experience...how do you get hired for lack of experience if you cant get experience because you dont get hired for no experience?)

you sound like either a pubescent teenager who only has to pull mommys leg to get what he wants

or your a grown adult with to many cards up his rear
i suggest you get off your high horse and stop trying to belittle others who are giving valid suggestions to the community


to say something idiotic such as "oh he doesnt care about the art, only exposing it" proves your somebody who thinks highly of himself, and less of others, probably a social outcast.

do not speak to me unless you have something constructive to say, instead of petty jabs at my character.


First off, you are not quoting me correctly. Please read my post carefully before you quote me.

I am a grown adult, I have been through uni and all that.
I do find it interesting that you make judgment calls about my personality and life with out knowing me, but do not want me to do the same of you. I rent, I live out of home, have to support myself, work full time, train almost full time, as well as save to cover travel and training expenses for my sport etc etc etc.
To me it sounds like you have more issues that you need to deal with in order to find happiness. You don't sound like you like your job, or even the industry you are working in. You sound bitter at the people that told you it would be a good choice of course, and you feel that you've wasted your time and money doing it.
Of course I could be wrong, but that's the feeling that I get. I know that feeling too, I've only been out of Uni for 3 years or so now. It's not easy getting in to a job that you enjoy doing every day.


You are right, I do think highly of myself, and also highly of other people. I do think less of unethical practice tho such as ripping off artists who have worked hard on an effect, gimmick or routine. If you like it and plan on performing it, you should pay your dues to the creator rather than just steal the routine from them for the sake of a couple of dollars.
Of course if you could find the same product at another store for less I would say go for it, get the cheaper product. I do it, if I want a book or DVD or CD I will shop around. I'm all for competitiveness in the market place, it's healthy and forces people to be accountable for their releases.

Distortion is not a new concept, but the routines included are the creations of the respective artists. You can get the gimmick and come up with your own handling, and your own routines. There's no problem there from me at all.

Panic I think is a little different tho as it seems to be an original routine from Aaron.

Personally I don't think that going to the artist's work place and talking about how you don't need the DVDs because you've figured out the routine and just want the gimmicks is good practice. If it was my work place then I'd get pretty annoyed if people continued to do this. Wouldn't you?
 
That's a good point too. Theory 11 is obviously and definitely in it for the money (otherwise, why wouldn't they just keep these 'underground' effects underground?). But they're also a team of professional magicians who care about teaching things right. People seem to forget, as Lee Asher said, that "magic is show business - one half's the show, the other half's the business".

EDIT: And while I acknowledge this, I still believe in everything that Anton's saying; pay some respect to the man who created this wonderful routine that you stole from him for the sake of a couple of bucks. Don't forget that without him, you would not have this great piece in your arsenal (which is probably being performed incorrectly, but I digress).
 
Last edited by a moderator:

-Ty

Sep 1, 2007
248
1
Australia
well as i said, im a smart guy lol

i always practise twice as much and think of many patter lines of each tricks depending on the situation
but honistly i really believe that for myself, i dont need the dvd to utilize the skills properly...

and i dont expose...

But countless others would.

Also, T11 most likely wants you to learn it right, with tips and performances and all. If they didn't, they'd just give you the gimmick.

Ty
 
Sep 2, 2007
1,693
1
I do think less of unethical practice tho such as ripping off artists who have worked hard on an effect, gimmick or routine. If you like it and plan on performing it, you should pay your dues to the creator rather than just steal the routine from them for the sake of a couple of dollars.

He does not want to rip off or "steal" from Aaron Fisher, but instead wants to "pay [his] dues to the creater [Mr. Fisher]" by buying the gimmick. He just does not want the DVD because he does not want to follow his routine, but instead create his own, unique one.

Personally I don't think that going to the artist's work place and talking about how you don't need the DVDs because you've figured out the routine and just want the gimmicks is good practice.

He hasn't "figured out the routine" because he doesn't want it. Also, he does want the gimmick, not for "good practice," but rather in order to make a deck vanish.

By why are we talking about this -- the question for this thread was "who else doesnt want the dvd," not "who else thinks that buying the dvd is stealing/plagiarism/unethical/immoral" ... Further, why am I involved in this conversation ... I digress ...

Cheers,
JTM
 
Well then his case is a special one.

I ask that you only ponder on this before you go suggesting that the gimmick alone should be sold to the public:

The number 1 enemy of magic is bad magic.​
 
Sep 8, 2007
96
0
42
Adelaide, Australia
He does not want to rip off or "steal" from Aaron Fisher, but instead wants to "pay [his] dues to the creater [Mr. Fisher]" by buying the gimmick. He just does not want the DVD because he does not want to follow his routine, but instead create his own, unique one.

Maybe I'm getting a little further from the point that I wanted to make.
Maybe Phenomena's intentions are good and he will do the right thing by the artist with the gimmick, routine his own ideas that are far from Aaron's, but many wouldn't.
Many would just copy the routine from poor performances on youtube if they could save some money not getting the DVD. Or they would go and download the DVD and copy it outright.
 
Sep 1, 2007
586
0
Cornwall
i only read the first 2 sectences of your essay and was already disgusted

I do find it interesting that you make judgment calls about my personality and life with out knowing me,


was it not you who said something along the lines of me exposing, not respecting magic as an art?

practise what you preach
 
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