Why are fellow magicians so combative sometimes?

[DisasterTheory]

Over the 20+ years I have been doing magic, I never really ran into so many people (fellow magicians) intent on being rude and bringing down fellow magicians as I do these days.

I used to be a member of various groups and the people in them were always very helpful to others, very supportive of others, and polite to fellow magicians. That seems to be changing these days. As I have become more and more involved with magic communities lately, I have realized that there are at least a few (sometimes more) fellow magicians that just look for ways to argue with people. Granted there are times that I come off as someone like this but that is never my intent. I simply try to share my knowledge where I think it will fit. Sometimes people see that form of help as having a superiority complex, but to know me, they'd know that I'm genuinely trying to be helpful and try to spark conversation by explaining my views on things, etc.

That being said, in the past few days, I have legit had one magician chastise me for implying a different method for marked cards, rather than purchasing them all the time. When I said "Wish I could help (referring to info on commercially marketed marked cards), but I generally mark my own." (this was added to imply that they could do the same instead of spending a ton of money all the time)....I was replied to (from someone that had nothing to do with the conversation) with "Then why did you even bother to comment?"

In another instance, regarding my new Patriot deck, I have a fellow intent on tearing it apart for literally no reason. Not sure if he's bitter and maybe tried his hand at it previously and didn't do well, etc but I can say I have never really faced such douche like behavior from people in the magic community in the past. It's odd.

 

[Gabriel Z.]

You're not only going to find this behavior in magic. This is called aggression , and in order to survive in the jungle you have to have a least some kind of aggressive shell. You said you have been doing magic for 20+ years so you must be at least 20 years old. You should know by now that without some kind of thick shell people are just going to walk all over you. That being said , you are going to find rude people everywhere you go. Yes, drama is prevalent in magic more now than ever e.g Madison vs Ladanye, Jibrizy etc..; probably due to the fact that we have access to internet so we can actually see it.... Hope this helps.

 

[DisasterTheory]

You're not only going to find this behavior in magic. This is called aggression , and in order to survive in the jungle you have to have a least some kind of aggressive shell. You said you have been doing magic for 20+ years so you must be at least 20 years old. You should know by now that without some kind of thick shell people are just going to walk all over you. That being said , you are going to find rude people everywhere you go. Yes, drama is prevalent in magic more now than ever e.g Madison vs Ladanye, Jibrizy etc..; probably due to the fact that we have access to internet so we can actually see it.... Hope this helps.

Well yeah, that is a given. I have pretty thick skin. Not much bothers me at all. I just found that lately that what I was used to being a friendly environment where fellow magicians shared (not necessarily secrets of course), showed support for each other and generally was just kind to one another (due to a shared passion), is now like walking into a war zone if you're doing something they haven't done or thought of AND sometimes for no reason at all. I actually thought I missed something throughout the years of not participating in groups like that. I guess I'm just disappointed that this type of thing has spilled over into a once welcoming environment.

 

[Al e Cat Dabra]

Gabriel makes a good point about the heightened Internet access/usage.

As far as the "douche like behavior" Disaster Theory describes, I think there are 3 reasons for it:

E

G

O

 

[DisasterTheory]

Gabriel makes a good point about the heightened Internet access/usage.

As far as the "douche like behavior" Disaster Theory describes, I think there are 3 reasons for it:

E

G

O

Oh yes, that was my first thought "ego." However, the few people I have encountered over the last few days with this behavior...I checked out their work/videos, etc....and without sounding too harsh...their egos would be greatly unjustified.

 

[WitchDocIsIn]

Consider the background of most magicians and I think you'll have your answer.

 

[Al e Cat Dabra]

@Disaster Theory: "...their egos would be greatly unjustified."

I don't think big egos are ever justified, even if someone is really "good." I prefer and admire humility, and I believe that most people do, as well. Just my opinion...

 

[DisasterTheory]

I don't think big egos are ever justified, even if someone is really "good." I prefer and admire humility, and I believe that most people do, as well. Just my opinion...

same actually. Being humble is something I've been taught at pretty much every aspect in life...from home, to martial arts and the military. Like I said, I'll be the first to admit that sometimes I communicate in a way that comes off as egotistical (textually), but people who know me also generally know the tone I always use and that I typically don't mean anything I say in an egotistical manner. While I don't condone large ego's regardless of how good someone is, I definitely find it insulting that a lot of the greats are humble, approachable, etc while those that have almost no skill level at all, are generally the most egotistical.

 

[RealityOne]

We are not. You're wrong. You have no idea what you are talking about. Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries. Now go away before In taunt you a second time.

 

[DisasterTheory]

We are not. You're wrong. You have no idea what you are talking about. Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries. Now go away before In taunt you a second time

 

[Maaz Hasan]

"Some men just want to watch the world burn" - Alfred Pennyworth, The Dark Knight Rises

It's true though. Some people hate for the sake of hating. Some people also think that their ideas are 100% right, and anyone who says otherwise is a dumb piece of crap. Why I see this more in Magicians compared to other communities? It might be because we are around this community a lot more. It might also have to do with the fact that quite a few magicians come into magic with a huge ego, trying to show how they are the best, and pretty much fail, because I would say 95% of the time, a completely non-humble performance is a horrible performance (especially to laymen). Of course, there are exceptions here (eg. Paul Daniel's Chop Cup Routine used a non-humble presentation for comedic effect, and it is one of the best presentations out there), but for the most part, it's true. So you have Huge Egos + some sort of Internal Hatred for the Community + Unconventional Ideas presented to them. Pretty much a recipe for disaster.

 

[RealityOne]

I think that a large part of it is that there is a disconnect from reality on magic forums. I see a lot of things said that people would never say face to face. Also, I think that people get too attached to their opinions in magic forums and in life. I try to follow Richard Covey's advice from The Seven Hanits of Highly Edfective People - seek first to understand and then to be understood.

That being said, I do have my very strong personal beliefs about magic. That magic is foremost entertainment and that we design our effects and presentations with entertaining the audience in mind. That sleights should be natural and having the audience sense that you did a move is as bad as them knowing what move you did. That presentations should be meaningful and that there should be texture to the effects and presentations you perform. That actions that disprove a method prove that there is a method. That for learning, books are better than DVDs and anything better than YouTube. That magic is meant to be performed live. For all of those beliefs, I will argue my point but try to do it in a way that is helpful. Because ticking someone off is the easiest way to get them to not listen to you.

 

[Timewise64]

I am very much a beginner at magic, but I worked in Business for over 42 years, and a great portion of that was managing people. Learning to manage people is a life long pursuit. With all I studied and all my experiences I learned that Effective Listening vs Hearing is critical. I learned to do what is called a listening check when talking with people, I would say something like "So what you are telling me is that you.......'saying what I thought I heard'...may times I find out that what I thought someone said was wrong! With that, it follows that Understanding the others point of view is critical as RealityOne said above, quoted/paraphrased from Habits of Highly Effective People - Seek first to understand and then to be understood. Learning to do this, and do it spontaneously, is extremely difficult to learn.

Many times in my life both professional and personal relationships, when I thought someone was rude or abrupt, I later discovered that I did not truly understand what they were saying, this is especially true when I worked with people who were very creative, like artists, entertainers, musician's, etc. Therefore my actions or lack of actions or maybe simply my response was completely off base which in turn initiated their response to me.....

Bottom line is many of the times you do not like how someone acts toward you....it is a direct result of something you did or did not do!

Welcome to your life long journey....

 

[Lord Magic]

I think that a large part of it is that there is a disconnect from reality on magic forums. I see a lot of things said that people would never say face to face. Also, I think that people get too attached to their opinions in magic forums and in life. I try to follow Richard Covey's advice from The Seven Hanits of Highly Edfective People - seek first to understand and then to be understood.

That being said, I do have my very strong personal beliefs about magic. That magic is foremost entertainment and that we design our effects and presentations with entertaining the audience in mind. That sleights should be natural and having the audience sense that you did a move is as bad as them knowing what move you did. That presentations should be meaningful and that there should be texture to the effects and presentations you perform. That actions that disprove a method prove that there is a method. That for learning, books are better than DVDs and anything better than YouTube. That magic is meant to be performed live. For all of those beliefs, I will argue my point but try to do it in a way that is helpful. Because ticking someone off is the easiest way to get them to not listen to you.

The thing with internet in general right?
People say things they would never dare to or really wish they could say in real life.

 

[Lord Magic]

People will sometimes do that...get jealous? Get egoistic?
Maybe that is not deliberate...something we all should consider.
And being combative is part and parcel of an expanding number of magicians, right?
More people there are, more competition there is, more aggression and arguments!
Just like any other art or talent form.
We all want to be the best, right?
Granted that not many of us would call ourselves the world's best magician explicitly (got the hint there?)

 

[obrienmagic]

IMO it is more of a social media issue than a magician one. People love to be keyboard warriors since there is not real human interaction. It is easy to be aggressive in your under where in bed with a beer in your hand lol.

That being said, I love that you always stay so positive and do your best to contribute!