Yes, T11 is a thriving company, and yes, it does have to make money. I understand that completly. But do they have to trick newbies into believing they are buying something new and awesome, when you can tell them to go get a book or even a dvd that teaches not only the sleight their looking for but also a heap of other sleights.
Dan White said when this site first came out, there is as much deception going on with the marketing of tricks as there is in the effect itself. Doesn't that portain to what is going on here?
Squirrel,
I read the posts here every day.
This thread is just another pointless load of garbage with people whining for the sake of it (yes, me too).
I can''t be bothered to re-quote all the bits of your post as you did mine, but for the record:
Yes i did read what people were complaining about, maybe you should go back and re-read the thread for yourself.
The stupidity of my statement is only equaled by the stupidity of all the others.
Do i know how old you are? No. never said i did. But judging by the complaining done by most on here, it's natural to assume that most are still at home.
I never said just being a T-11 artist (whatever the hell that is) gets you automatic unlimited respect, i said the disrespect was pretty disgusting. Which it is. the proof is there for the reading so don't moan at me. And even if the comments weren't directed at Joel directly, it makes no difference. It's his 1 on 1. And fair play, so it's disrespecting the guys that run the place..how does that make it any better?
As for this bit:
Please. Why would I need to add anything to this shambles?
What would be the point of trying to argue with people who think that just because they know how something is done and believe it's not right for them or not worth the money, they are unwilling to contemplate that someone else out there in the great big world may find it useful?
And as for being superior, arrogant, condescending and not reading posts....you may wanna' take a bit of your own advice there big fella.
Rabid
And as for being superior, arrogant, condescending and not reading posts....you may wanna' take a bit of your own advice there big fella.
This is absolutley unbelievable. This is a new low for the 1 on 1's and for T11. This is a 3 packet swivel cut that can be found EVERYWHERE, there's probably a tutorial on Youtube for it (there's also tutorials for far better and more convincing false cuts)
T11 should be ashamed of themselves, I don't know how they can sleep at night selling this.
Is this cut the most 'effective, hard hitting' magic available? I don't think so, it's not even 'sorta cool'.
Even the BS argument 'but you get tips from a pro' is irrelevant here, you don't need any tips to perform this, there's NOTHING to it. This will not enhance anybodys magic.
They have NO right to charge for this. The only person who would buy this is a complete beginner who doesn't know it's available for free elsewhere.
This is disgusting, if T11 have even the slightest amount of respect for us they should take this down. Expecting us to pay for this is insulting.
People are not whining for the sake of it, they are whining because they feel they are being overcharged for something that is nearly worthless. People are getting very annoyed by it because it has happened several times now, which is why the reaction may appear to be disproportionate to what has happened.
sorry, a bit of topic....
but watch "ace cut"
then
read what joels favorite effect is on his artist page....
(ironic?)
How?
If they bought it, they must not have know about it before or not known how it was done therefore they've paid for the knowledge. In which case i fail to see your argument. If one knew what was going on in the demo, that person would obviously not pay to find out the method. But if one didn't know what was going on, then how can the knowledge learnt be worthless?
We strive to take magic to the next level, pushing forward in its natural progression and evolution as an art form.
What T11 is doing is that it is diluting the knowledge of magic. That's the bad thing. T11 is a powerful tribune and they should really try to filter what they offer to the audience. Forget even about the price, you just can't release something mediocre when there are such wonderful and effective moves that can be much more useful in magic. Even moves that many people here already know, but that have many subtleties to them, e.g. a top change, a pushover double lift, a classic pass, the convincing control, the Erdnase color change, a Hofzinser spread control, a riffle force etc. These all deserve their 10 minutes (or more) of explanation by a professional magician in the 1-on-1.If they bought it, they must not have know about it before or not known how it was done therefore they've paid for the knowledge. In which case i fail to see your argument. If one knew what was going on in the demo, that person would obviously not pay to find out the method. But if one didn't know what was going on, then how can the knowledge learnt be worthless?
Rabid
Thanks for the intelligent response but by what you are saying it seems like you concern is with value.You have completely missed the point of why people are complaining
Nobody has complained that the 1 on 1's don't fit their needs. Obviously we're not expecting a new super hard pass every week.
The Coin 1 on 1's don't fit my needs at all as I don't do coins, but I never complained about them as they are good value for money.
Nobody had a problem with the Card Fundamental's 1 on 1's by Aaron Fisher even thought they are very basic. They have a lot of very good information for a beginner that is good value for money.
They are complaining because there's very little of value in this 1 on 1, certainly not $5 worth of stuff. Maybe if it was $2.50 people might not complain as much although even that would be a rip off.
You say a beginner may never have thought to use these in their routines?
Even though every beginner book and loads of DVD's tells them how to do a cut like this?
Referring them to Youtube or Decknique is a very reasonable thing to do, obviously there's a lot of junk out there (especially on Youtube) but it's quite easy to find some good false cuts/ controls created by some very talented people
They are complaining because there's very little of value in this 1 on 1, certainly not $5 worth of stuff. Maybe if it was $2.50 people might not complain as much although even that would be a rip off.
Even though every beginner book and loads of DVD's tells them how to do a cut like this?
Ok but by the same token its a value better to get the Trilogy is but no one complains about the bucks 1 on 1s.
TOOC is awesome but nobody’s saying Chris is ripping people off because you can learn them in his book. Same with DM.
What T11 is doing is that it is diluting the knowledge of magic. That's the bad thing.So it has to be difficult to be effecitve? Sometimes easy hits hard also.
Even moves that many people here already know, but that have many subtleties to them, e.g. a top change, a pushover double lift, a classic pass, the convincing control, the Erdnase color change, a Hofzinser spread control, a riffle force etc. These all deserve their 10 minutes (or more) of explanation by a professional magician in the 1-on-1.
Oh, so now those are deserving but other ones arent. Lets play pick and choose.
Ok but by the same token its a value better to get the Trilogy is but no one complains about the bucks 1 on 1s.
TOOC is awesome but nobody’s saying Chris is ripping people off because you can learn them in his book. Same with DM.
People are just hammering Joel because his are simple, easy, and effective. Because they are not level eight or higher and peoples skills are they are passing around the cheese.
That's where you're wrong. People have complained about all the things you listed right there.
I havent seen anyone in this thread complain about that.