Death to the Double Undercut // 1-on-1

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Aug 5, 2008
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Guys why do you keep complaining for,its not going to change their minds,Yes its a Rip Off but Apparently thousands of kids will buy buy it.I thought it was Alright,but like most of the other 1-1S it wasn't anything original or Special.If you dont like it, dont buy it,If you care so much about the noobs that buy them, then why dont you marry them.
 
Sep 1, 2007
1,241
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First- I think we both know I always recommend things like RRTCM, so please don't talk to me like I don't like books... their my favoritest. :D I just don't think all this negativity is helping the noobs, either. I'm just saying- maybe not be so negative when expressing your opinions. You only come off as an ass.


Yeah, thats a great response. You didn't address any of my issues, you just called me an ass. Really, great intelligent post. Anyways, I really don't want to get this locked, so if you want to pm or whatever, be my guest.
 
Sep 1, 2007
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If someone says "Hey, I really want to get into magic, where do you think I should start?" Any smart magician would reccomend a classic book, like Mark Wilsons or Royal Road. But what theory11 is doing, is they are reccomending their own products over the classics. I know, I know, they are a buisness, they need money. But these are some of the most respected magicians in the world, and they are basically lying and stealing our money. I know the whole "if you don't like it don't buy it" but you have to think in the back of your head "I feel sorry for those who didn't buy it" Why? Because they were misdirected away from books to these downloads that are supposedly "groundbreaking" and "never taught in detail before" when they can go pick up a 10 dollar book that will last them literally a lifetime.

I was going to write a post, but then I saw that creeper had already taken the words right out of my mouth.

Buy this cut if you must, though I personally can't see why anyone would have a problem with the double undercut that's no reason for me to tell others they don't need this. What I will say though is that if you can afford $5 to download this, you can afford $5 to download Royal Road from lybrary.com.

As if it needed to be said, the latter represents far far greater value for money.

Tom
 
Sep 1, 2007
1,241
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It better not be closed without an artists response.


There's a SNC tonight, so odds are, we'll get one.
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,786
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It just pisses me off that NO ONE is looking out for the newbies best interest.

Least of all you. Beating the war drums over a false alarm isn't productive in the least.

T11 is a business and has to make money. However, T11 constantly try to remind us that they are different and and only sell the best material etc. This is obviously not true. If this was released on Penguinmagic people would probably just ignore it (btw I don't have a problem with penguinmagic) as they don't constantly make all these claims about only choosing the best material

People burned when they allow themselves to buy into hype are the first ones to demonize it.

What T11 is doing is that it is diluting the knowledge of magic. That's the bad thing. T11 is a powerful tribune and they should really try to filter what they offer to the audience.

So teaching basic material is dilluting an artform?

Forget even about the price, you just can't release something mediocre when there are such wonderful and effective moves that can be much more useful in magic.

Where have you been? That's what the magic industry has been doing for decades.

People are not happy because Joel is selling Charlier cuts and swivel cuts for the same price as well thought out original material from the Bucks.

By the same token, should I start burning books that teach double lifts when the author of the book is not the guy who invented the double lift?

It's sad you're being ignored because I don't think you could be anymore right...

Of course he's being ignored. What people want to hear and what they need to hear are two entirely different things. They can tell the difference, it's just that the latter isn't convenient enough for them. And their convenience is all they really care about.

Defending the newbies my sexy ass.
 
Apr 28, 2008
596
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People burned when they allow themselves to buy into hype are the first ones to demonize it.

I never 'bought into' the hype, I was simply commenting that they don't appear to meeting their own standards of selling 'only the best effects'

So teaching basic material is dilluting an artform?

No, but selecting a very small amount of the basic material available and significantly over pricing it is.

By the same token, should I start burning books that teach double lifts when the author of the book is not the guy who invented the double lift?

That's not really the point. A more appropriate analogy would be picking one of the double lifts out of a book that has many sleights and effects in it and selling it for $5.

Of course he's being ignored. What people want to hear and what they need to hear are two entirely different things. They can tell the difference, it's just that the latter isn't convenient enough for them. And their convenience is all they really care about.

As I said earlier, he was ignored simply because the topic isn't really relevant to the thread (although it's arguably connected in some way). As I suggested, he has started a new thread on the subject which now has quite a few replies.
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,786
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No, but selecting a very small amount of the basic material available and significantly over pricing it is.

If you think that paying 5 bucks for one sleight is bad, wait until you see all those cheapo pamphlets at magic stores.

I expect to see video proof of you burning them, or I'm going to call you a hypocrite.

Still waiting...

I already responded to you. I said it was disengenuous of you to wave the banner of protecting the newbies when you yourself are doing nothing of the sort.

You ignored me because it wasn't convenient for you.
 
Apr 28, 2008
596
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If you think that paying 5 bucks for one sleight is bad, wait until you see all those cheapo pamphlets at magic stores.

I expect to see video proof of you burning them, or I'm going to call you a hypocrite.

Unfortunatley there isn't a magic store within 100 miles of where I live.

If there was then I would happily give you video evidence of me burning them.
 
Sep 1, 2007
1,241
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I'm not trying to "protect" the newbies, I'm just trying to find out why they would sell something like this.

And I couldn't care less what you have to say, I'm waiting for a theory11 team member response.
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,786
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I'm not trying to "protect" the newbies,

Your words:

I realize this section is geared toward beginners. but how about give them some GOOD advice and not rob them blind?

But do they have to trick newbies into believing they are buying something new and awesome,

It just pisses me off that NO ONE is looking out for the newbies best interest.

It never occurred to you that someone would backtrack over your posts?

And I couldn't care less what you have to say, I'm waiting for a theory11 team member response.

Of course you don't care, because I'm a nobody on a messageboard (kind of like you, at that). By that token, I wonder why the admins should care about ignorant sabre rattling?
 
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Guys, let's say theory11 made a 1 on 1 video of the Sybil Cut for $5. Would a cut such as the basic Sybil Cut be bought by someone such as Dan or Dave? Of course not. Let's say it was put up 10 years ago. Would it be worth it then when they were just starting out? Of course. Just because something is geared towards another skill group than you are in does not mean it should not exist.

Guys, it goes without saying that there is a TON of controversy over this 1-on-1 video along with many of the other 1 on 1 videos geared towards beginners. theory11 tries to appeal to everyone. To do this... there will be some disappointing 1 on 1 videos for you, but to others it will be pure gold. Of course, on other weeks, there will be 1 on 1's either too advanced for someone, but maybe pure gold for you. theory11 cannot satisfy everyone in one week.

So yes... there are some 1 on 1's geared towards beginners (Cardistry 101, Card Fund. Vol. 1/2, Death to the Double Undercut, Static, etc.)

Of course... there are those which are a bit more advanced (Backpack, Crunk, Unicoin, etc.)

Now we have people asking us why theory11 doesn't teach this stuff for free. I think people loose focus on what theory11 is aside from a community. It is also a business. The quality of the videos on this website surpasses any self made Youtube tutorial. On theory11, you are learning from artists who have been in the business for several years. I mean.. you even have David Copperfield's executive producer teaching effects for just $5 on here. Everything is shot in HD for clarity. You won't find these artists teaching their effects, sleights, and flourishes on Youtube in HD for free. Here, theory11 can give that to you.

No one is forcing anyone to buy any 1 on 1 video on this site. If something comes out that appeals to you... get it. If it doesn't.... there is always next week. We don't need a new cut as revolutionary as the Sybil every single Friday.

I hope you guys have a better understanding now. Thanks.

-Doug
 
Sep 1, 2007
1,241
1
I've said it over and over again, I'm for oneonones for beginners. But charging 5 bucks for a swivel cut is nonsense. I'm tired of stating the same thing over and over again. I'm not posting in this thread again unless a T11 team member responds. I know you guys couldn't care less, just letting you know, so if you quote me, don't expect a response.
 
Guys, let's say theory11 made a 1 on 1 video of the Sybil Cut for $5. Would a cut such as the basic Sybil Cut be bought by someone such as Dan or Dave? Of course not. Let's say it was put up 10 years ago. Would it be worth it then when they were just starting out? Of course. Just because something is geared towards another skill group than you are in does not mean it should not exist.

Guys, it goes without saying that there is a TON of controversy over this 1-on-1 video along with many of the other 1 on 1 videos geared towards beginners. theory11 tries to appeal to everyone. To do this... there will be some disappointing 1 on 1 videos for you, but to others it will be pure gold. Of course, on other weeks, there will be 1 on 1's either too advanced for someone, but maybe pure gold for you. theory11 cannot satisfy everyone in one week.

So yes... there are some 1 on 1's geared towards beginners (Cardistry 101, Card Fund. Vol. 1/2, Death to the Double Undercut, Static, etc.)

Of course... there are those which are a bit more advanced (Backpack, Crunk, Unicoin, etc.)

Now we have people asking us why theory11 doesn't teach this stuff for free. I think people loose focus on what theory11 is aside from a community. It is also a business. The quality of the videos on this website surpasses any self made Youtube tutorial. On theory11, you are learning from artists who have been in the business for several years. I mean.. you even have David Copperfield's executive producer teaching effects for just $5 on here. Everything is shot in HD for clarity. You won't find these artists teaching their effects, sleights, and flourishes on Youtube in HD for free. Here, theory11 can give that to you.

No one is forcing anyone to buy any 1 on 1 video on this site. If something comes out that appeals to you... get it. If it doesn't.... there is always next week. We don't need a new cut as revolutionary as the Sybil every single Friday.

I hope you guys have a better understanding now. Thanks.

-Doug
Sybil cut is in the trilogy and TOOC. You can't find the exact sybil cut or anything such as lepaul spread( should be a 1on1), and other useful beginner tutorials on youtbe. But you can find the swivel cut and many other beginner material for free. Theory11 has a bunch of talented artists with alot of material. Why would they waste there time selling something like this, when they can ask dan and dave to make a 1on1 for lepaul spread. I'm sure joel paschall is a talented magician. So why doesn't he release some of his real material. Not trying to be a flourisher and release **** for 5 bucks.
 
Apr 28, 2008
596
0
I've said it over and over again, I'm for oneonones for beginners. But charging 5 bucks for a swivel cut is nonsense. I'm tired of stating the same thing over and over again. I'm not posting in this thread again unless a T11 team member responds. I know you guys couldn't care less, just letting you know, so if you quote me, don't expect a response.

I completely agree, it's getting really annoying when people keep saying 'you don't like them because there too easy' or 'not every 1 on 1 will suit you'
They're completely missing the point.

Sybil cut is in the trilogy and TOOC. You can't find the exact sybil cut or anything such as lepaul spread( should be a 1on1), and other useful beginner tutorials on youtbe. But you can find the swivel cut and many other beginner material for free. Theory11 has a bunch of talented artists with alot of material. Why would they waste there time selling something like this, when they can ask dan and dave to make a 1on1 for lepaul spread. I'm sure joel paschall is a talented magician. So why doesn't he release some of his real material. Not trying to be a flourisher and release **** for 5 bucks.

Yea, I don't see why Joel is releasing cuts when T11 also have Dan and Dave Daniel Madison and Andrei Jikh. Lee Asher has a couple of nice cuts as well.
 
Aug 9, 2008
24
0
It never occurred to you that someone would backtrack over your posts?

This guy has way too much time on his hands.And I hated the cut,Super obvious

and easy to do,But hey there are lots of suckers out there.If I had a company I

would do the same thing.Good work theory11 Keep up the Good work. Ha ha ha.
 
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