Death to the Double Undercut // 1-on-1

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Sep 1, 2007
3,818
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This guy has way too much time on his hands.

So having 3 minutes to click on the button that says "Find all posts by ________" means having too much time on my hands?

Try an insult that actually works next time? You know, one that can't be negated by pesky things like facts.

God I hate magicians.
 
Aug 9, 2008
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So having 3 minutes to click on the button that says "Find all posts by ________" means having too much time on my hands?

Try an insult that actually works next time? You know, one that can't be negated by pesky things like facts.

God I hate magicians.

Ha ha ha ha .Nice one "Steerpike" PHHf. Way to put me down Ha ha ha,Why dont I buy you a pack of gum and show you how to chew it
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,818
15
That doesn't even work as an insult. It really fails on a whole lot of levels.

No matter. I see a ban in your future either way.
 
Sep 1, 2007
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Ahh, wait. I remember BrianationX saying that he called himself a Prestigidator, as opposed to a magician in an argument with steerpike once.

Epic fail on the spelling though.
 
Mar 16, 2008
186
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Melbz
Guys, let's say theory11 made a 1 on 1 video of the Sybil Cut for $5. Would a cut such as the basic Sybil Cut be bought by someone such as Dan or Dave? Of course not. Let's say it was put up 10 years ago. Would it be worth it then when they were just starting out? Of course. Just because something is geared towards another skill group than you are in does not mean it should not exist.

Guys, it goes without saying that there is a TON of controversy over this 1-on-1 video along with many of the other 1 on 1 videos geared towards beginners. theory11 tries to appeal to everyone. To do this... there will be some disappointing 1 on 1 videos for you, but to others it will be pure gold. Of course, on other weeks, there will be 1 on 1's either too advanced for someone, but maybe pure gold for you. theory11 cannot satisfy everyone in one week.

So yes... there are some 1 on 1's geared towards beginners (Cardistry 101, Card Fund. Vol. 1/2, Death to the Double Undercut, Static, etc.)

Of course... there are those which are a bit more advanced (Backpack, Crunk, Unicoin, etc.)

Now we have people asking us why theory11 doesn't teach this stuff for free. I think people loose focus on what theory11 is aside from a community. It is also a business. The quality of the videos on this website surpasses any self made Youtube tutorial. On theory11, you are learning from artists who have been in the business for several years. I mean.. you even have David Copperfield's executive producer teaching effects for just $5 on here. Everything is shot in HD for clarity. You won't find these artists teaching their effects, sleights, and flourishes on Youtube in HD for free. Here, theory11 can give that to you.

No one is forcing anyone to buy any 1 on 1 video on this site. If something comes out that appeals to you... get it. If it doesn't.... there is always next week. We don't need a new cut as revolutionary as the Sybil every single Friday.

I hope you guys have a better understanding now. Thanks.

-Doug

Doug, it's in your best interest to defend theory11 but please, for once think of the little guys who don't have as much knowledge as the rest of us.

Obviously at least one t11 staff member has seen this and they seem to be ignoring this. Please give us an explanation, I've seen you guys reply to many other threads about your business - why ignore this one?

Thanks
 
Sep 1, 2007
1,247
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I said I wouldn't reply but this is getting ridiculous. I know for a fact that 2 theory11 artists that probably had something to do with this have seen this thread.
 
Aug 5, 2008
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BrianationX?


Ok I was also accused for the same thing and So I read all of his posts and guess what? My views on magic have been completely changed drastically, I agreed with everything he said and I found that everyone else was just attacking him.I don't know what I said to trigger that comment but Im guessing the Heckler Comment,well hes on Decknique so Ill see if I register there later on.And I dont see why you are comparing this guy to Brian.Oh the thing that he convinced me was on Comedy, I never liked it anyways.
 
Oct 21, 2007
3,146
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Bergen County, NJ, USA
Doug, it's in your best interest to defend theory11 but please, for once think of the little guys who don't have as much knowledge as the rest of us.

Obviously at least one t11 staff member has seen this and they seem to be ignoring this. Please give us an explanation, I've seen you guys reply to many other threads about your business - why ignore this one?

Thanks

I am thinking for the little guys who don't have as much knowledge. Do you know what people are doing right now? People are encouraging people to go on YOUTUBE and learn this cut. Whoah whoah whoah.... Where have I been? Last time I checked people said not to go on Youtube for any tutorials. Now that it's released in HD by Joel Paschall for money, all of a sudden we should all go on Youtube? Well... I sense some hypocrisy there.

I would rather have a beginner buy Card College and spend the few bucks on these 1 on 1 videos. It's ridiculous. If something that requires some skill comes out... nobody complains. Everybody thinks about how awesome it is. When something pretty easy comes out... everybody goes crazy and encourages others to just go on Youtube and learn it.

Listen... nobody is forcing anybody to buy these 1 on 1 videos. Personally, I think a beginner should get these videos. It's up close and personal instead of through text. Joel is a great teacher in this video.

Also, what does it mean it's in my best interest to defend Theory 11? What happens if I don't defend them? I stop having power? I don't care about having power... Too many people have their heart set on becoming a moderator on this forum. Why? It's to have more influence. Well, believe me when I say that being a moderator is more work than you think. You'd be surprised. It's not in my best interest to do anything. I'm standing for what I believe is right. I will always do that. It's not like if I disagree with something, Danny Garcia and his gang of ninja gorillas are going to beat me up.

Chances are, Theory 11 staff member have seen this. Why don't they respond? Most likely they don't care. What is someone like JB supposed to do? Pop in here and say "Masters. I apologize for not giving you more advanced 1 on 1 videos. We will try to serve you better next time." Please...

I know you didn't mean to start anything with me, but today has been crazy on this forum because of this one cut. IT'S JUST A 1 on 1 VIDEO! There is no one forcing you to buy it! Just ignore it if you don't want it! We don't need a bunch of people saying it's garbage! I like it. You might not. There is a difference of opinion. I'll have my opinion and you can have yours.

-Doug
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,818
15
I am thinking for the little guys who don't have as much knowledge. Do you know what people are doing right now? People are encouraging people to go on YOUTUBE and learn this cut. Whoah whoah whoah.... Where have I been? Last time I checked people said not to go on Youtube for any tutorials. Now that it's released in HD by Joel Paschall for money, all of a sudden we should all go on Youtube? Well... I sense some hypocrisy there.

Some hypocrisy? We're at critical mass here. We have to evacuate the thread and call in a hazmat team to contain the dangerously radioctive levels of hypocrisy before any innocent bystanders are contaminated.

I'll have my opinion and you can have yours.

Now we have you highlighting the irony of the situation. In a forum where oily teenagers can't seem to shut up about their freedom of speech, they want that right taken away from everyone who disagrees with them.

If it weren't for guys like Doug, I would have jumped ship long ago to let you all tear each other apart over petty, imagined transgressions.
 
Sep 1, 2007
117
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England
Guys, let's say theory11 made a 1 on 1 video of the Sybil Cut for $5. Would a cut such as the basic Sybil Cut be bought by someone such as Dan or Dave? Of course not. Let's say it was put up 10 years ago. Would it be worth it then when they were just starting out? Of course. Just because something is geared towards another skill group than you are in does not mean it should not exist.

I agree, but you've missed the point.

The reason so many people are getting upset with this 1 on 1 is that T11 will sell a glorified double undercut but nowhere on this site does it even mention one of the many great books or DVDs made by other people that would be a far more helpful for a beginner.

It's not an issue of price, they can charge what they like, they're a company, the best way to tell them it's too expensive is not to buy it. More or less the same with the content, they can sell what they like, there are no legal implications, they just have to be aware that they risk damaging their reputations if they sell stuff that people think they shouldn't be.

What I would like to see T11 do is to start telling their customers that there are other great products out there other than just what's sold on this site.

Oh, and this BS argument about 'you can learn it for free on youtube so T11 shouldn't sell it'... well I can hardly believe people are saying this. No matter how basic, how old or how wildly distributed an effect is, learning a trick on youtube from a video posted by anyone but the creator will never be ethical.

Tom
 
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Sep 1, 2007
1,400
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Belgrade, Serbia
You have tons of recomendations about great books in Product Questions and Review forums. Aaron Fisher recomends this books in his Card Fundamentals, and if a beginner come to this site, he/she will ask what to get and with what to start. At least they did so far...

I just love the tone of this thread, and like on every other thread there are two sides. Notice how almost every post start's with "yeah you're right but you missed the point" or "I hear you, but that is not the point", and that comes from both sides. I dont think that everyone will get the otherones point.

One more thing, i totally agree with Doug and Steerpike. And i just have to notice that T11 never stoled my money, never charged me for a new product when it was released, never robed me etc. without my permision. You dont lose money when new 1on1 comes out, T11 dont take money from you on purpose everytime new 1on1 comes out, and this is also for the good 1on1 not just for bad ones. But i dont know, maybe that's just me and my over protective computer that dont allow someone to just come in it and steal my money...

Also, some time ago people said that they would love quality over quantity, that they would reather wait 2-3 weeks for one good 1on1, than have a crappy one every week. Well guess what, that really is what is going on. Good 1on1 really does come every 2-3 weeks (they do every week, but i mean good by your standards), so yeah...
 
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Feb 1, 2008
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"Two simple, effective, and - most importantly - deceptive card controls"

The above statement is to me the BIG LIE - this cut, or whatever it is Joel is selling, is neither simple, nor effective and most importantly not a deceptive card control. A control by definition must be a secret move, not a flashy demonstration of skill. I mean, what happened with basic magic principles...

It may be geared toward the beginner, I don't mind that. T11 can charge whatever they want for it, it's their business. You can buy it or not. But T11 should not deceive the audience, especially the beginners, who may rush to learn this "simple, effective, and - most importantly - deceptive card control" before they learn something more simple, more effective and more deceptive like a double undercut or an overhand shuffle control.
 
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