All Around Magician?

Sep 2, 2007
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Houston, TX
I was just wondering to myself - Is it alright to be an all around magician?

When I say all around, I don't literally mean someone that does everything from stage magic to cardistry, and everything in between. Take for instance myself. I have interest in cards, have always performed with them but they aren't my favorite. Magic with ordinary objects is my absolute favorite, with coin magic being my second favorite. I also love to perform sponge balls. For a good while, I have had an off/on interest in cardistry and here lately I have found minor interest in mental magic (not full blown mentalism, just mental magic to add into my regular magic).

So, my questions to you - is it alright to be an all around (or very widely diverse) magician? Is it hard to be this sort of magician?

Thanks,
Robby
 
Feb 4, 2008
959
3
Michael Ammar, John Carney, Dai Vernon, Ted Anneman(mentalist known for his card skills), Hrmmm....Yep it's cool.
 
I'm an all around guy. I'm known as a card magician, but in my show I only do 1 card trick; the rest are coins, paper balls, sponge balls, rope, newspaper, etc. I believed that magic is limitless; therefore, I should be able to do magic with everything.
 
I'm an all around guy. I'm known as a card magician, but in my show I only do 1 card trick; the rest are coins, paper balls, sponge balls, rope, newspaper, etc. I believed that magic is limitless; therefore, I should be able to do magic with everything.

I agree, I had a Christmas party gig last night and I didn't use only one topic of magic, I think you should use as many different ones as you can. change things up a bit ;)
 

CaseyRudd

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Im reading Beyond Secrets by Jay Sankey right now, and in a section of the book he talks about "What is Your Market?" In this section, he talks about what you should focus on perfecting and what you do best. If you have a business card that says every possible category of magic, most likely the person hiring you won't think that highly of you. If your business card says "Restaurant Magician" then they know that you specialize in an area and can do it extremely well. Businesses tend to hire the specializer in the field rather than an all around magician. Since you are still in your beginning stages, focus on specializing in a specific area that you feel most comfortable with.
 
Dec 3, 2009
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In my own world
Being a well rounded magician is an enjoyable talent. If you ask me, spectators won't be as impressed if card magic is your only abilty. That is only my opinion. Whenever I perform, whether it be on the stage or in the streets, I carry a deck of cards, and I perform card magic because it is an excellent method to get your audience involved. Card magic never fails to blow minds; however, I suggest stepping away from the cards and doing something using an everyday object. CRUSH, DRESSCODE, CONTROL 2.0, and THREAD are a few of the effects on T11 that do not involve a deck of cards. I propose you look into these effects and consider purchasing one.

Cheers,
Axel
 
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Sep 2, 2007
1,182
119
31
Houston, TX
Im reading Beyond Secrets by Jay Sankey right now, and in a section of the book he talks about "What is Your Market?" In this section, he talks about what you should focus on perfecting and what you do best. If you have a business card that says every possible category of magic, most likely the person hiring you won't think that highly of you. If your business card says "Restaurant Magician" then they know that you specialize in an area and can do it extremely well. Businesses tend to hire the specializer in the field rather than an all around magician. Since you are still in your beginning stages, focus on specializing in a specific area that you feel most comfortable with.

I think right here he was more so referring to the venues that you work and not so much the effects you do. You wouldn't want a business card saying you do stage shows, corporate events, childrens parties, restaurant magic, etc. When I say all around magician, I am meaning the effects you perform. Not just limiting yourself to mentalism, or to cards etc.
 

Justin.Morris

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Aug 31, 2007
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I'm not sure that it would be terrible either way. Jason England probably doesn't do sponge balls, yet he's very successful.
Whatever you choose to do, do it better than anyone else (Vernon has some quote that speak to this I believe ;) )
You don't want to be a "jack of all trades and master of none".

But it is also great to be a well rounded performer (for both the audience and the performer).
 

CaseyRudd

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I think right here he was more so referring to the venues that you work and not so much the effects you do. You wouldn't want a business card saying you do stage shows, corporate events, childrens parties, restaurant magic, etc. When I say all around magician, I am meaning the effects you perform. Not just limiting yourself to mentalism, or to cards etc.

It also applies to the effects you do as well. Like Justin said, choose a genre of magic you enjoy doing the most and the one that you are most comfortable performing, and start fine tuning your technical skills. I would highly recommend Beyond Secrets because it goes more in depth in what I am talking about. Also, check out the Five Points in Magic by Juan Tamariz; it has served me tremendously in according of how I use my body to create a stronger effect for the audience. If you like cards more, start working on refining the small bits to make sure your handling is the finest it can be. Of course it will take a while, but patience is a virtue and you must allow that time to go by in order to get better.
 
Sep 2, 2007
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Houston, TX
Cool well, I think I am going to continue to perform a variety of things. I'm not going to even dip my feet into mental magic. I will stick to cards, coins, and ordinary objects. Right now, I think I am going to start refining my coin work and really focusing on that.

Also, I have read Beyond Secrets - about 2 years ago lol. Probably something I should pick up again and re-read
 
One last thing I have to add to this topic. I agreed that you should master in one category, but you also must be able to do other things as well. Too much of something is not good. Spectator don't tell you this, but seeing a card trick for 15 minutes is not very entertaining. No matter how well are you sleight, or how crazy's the effect, you tend to loose their interest (unless you mixes some comedy to keep their attention.) So, keep in mind that it is doesn't hurt to expand your self in other area of magic. Especially Mentalism; mentalism purely by its self is good, but sometime you make people lost interest. So, you mixes mentalism with other stuff, and it will repay you with greater appreciation.
 

CaseyRudd

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I'm agreeing with both here. You can specialize in cards and be the best at it if you want; I also mentioned "Restaurant Magician" in terms of specialization, so you could do multiple genres under that one category. Putting categories such as "Birthday Parties, Corporate Events, Trade Shows, Fundraisers, Weddings, and SO MUCH MORE!" on a business card won't get you much business at all. If you use one category such as "Restaurant Magician" people will think you are a professional of that craft and can give them a great experience. Hope this clears up some things. :)
 
Oct 12, 2009
286
0
Navarre, Florida
You could try to label/market yourself as some kind of "close-up specialist" and then you would still have that focused appeal yet have that option to use any variety of props.

I don't think there is necessarily anything wrong with having different kinds of magic as long as there is some kind of obvious cohesion or underlying theme between all of the effects in the set. I do disagree with the idea of variety for the sake of variety, or making the impression that you just shook your bag of tricks and showed your audience the first 3 that fell out.

I would, however, consider that variety for the sake of variety could have merit that increases relative to the length of performance, especially with children in mind. If you have to do 45 minutes to an hour of magic for kids then giving them new props to look at every now and again should help to keep their attention.

I guess you just gotta know when to fold em, know when to hold em etc...
 
Sep 1, 2007
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Uri Geller built a career more successfully than any of us by bending spoons. Just putting that out there.
 
Nov 8, 2007
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Im reading Beyond Secrets by Jay Sankey right now, and in a section of the book he talks about "What is Your Market?" In this section, he talks about what you should focus on perfecting and what you do best. If you have a business card that says every possible category of magic, most likely the person hiring you won't think that highly of you. If your business card says "Restaurant Magician" then they know that you specialize in an area and can do it extremely well. Businesses tend to hire the specializer in the field rather than an all around magician. Since you are still in your beginning stages, focus on specializing in a specific area that you feel most comfortable with.
It also applies to the effects you do as well. Like Justin said, choose a genre of magic you enjoy doing the most and the one that you are most comfortable performing, and start fine tuning your technical skills. I would highly recommend Beyond Secrets because it goes more in depth in what I am talking about. Also, check out the Five Points in Magic by Juan Tamariz; it has served me tremendously in according of how I use my body to create a stronger effect for the audience. If you like cards more, start working on refining the small bits to make sure your handling is the finest it can be. Of course it will take a while, but patience is a virtue and you must allow that time to go by in order to get better.
I really disagree with you here, Casey. I think you may have misinterpreted Sankey's advice as well. The reason Sankey is suggesting one to specialize in a performance field on their business card is for a very good business reason--potential clients want to feel like they're hiring a specialist for their needs. A potential client doesn't want the kids' party magician who dabbles in cocktail parties doing their event--they want the magician who specializes in doing cocktails parties. Sankey also suggests that if you want to do restaurants, kids' parties, corporate events, etc. that that is OK--that you should just have different business cards made for each type of event you do. His advice here is about the psychology of business--that's all. I do not think this logic translates over into what you're saying though.

I don't see how specializing in a certain prop or sub-school of magic is going to make anyone a better magician or get them more work. Laymen don't care if you're "the card specialist" or "Sponge Ball Bob." If anything, you're probably going to lose more business and disappoint more people by specializing in one thing because a lot of people aren't going to care about that one thing you lean on so much in your magic. I don't know how many times I've heard someone say "Can you do anything besides cards?" AS WELL AS "Can you do anything with cards?" It's the same comment, just from opposite sides of the spectrum.

Different people want different experiences. Having a well-rounded repertoire that allows you to connect with different people in different ways only opens more doors to doing so.

I was just wondering to myself - Is it alright to be an all around magician?

When I say all around, I don't literally mean someone that does everything from stage magic to cardistry, and everything in between. Take for instance myself. I have interest in cards, have always performed with them but they aren't my favorite. Magic with ordinary objects is my absolute favorite, with coin magic being my second favorite. I also love to perform sponge balls. For a good while, I have had an off/on interest in cardistry and here lately I have found minor interest in mental magic (not full blown mentalism, just mental magic to add into my regular magic).

So, my questions to you - is it alright to be an all around (or very widely diverse) magician? Is it hard to be this sort of magician?

Thanks,
Robby
It is alright, for sure.

My favorite kind of magic is magic done with borrowed, ordinary objects--rings, bills, glasses, coins, watches, etc. As far as laymen know, the only thing I have on me is one deck of cards and a few rubberbands on my wrist (when in actuality I have some secrets hidden on my person working invisibly under their noses). I like the impression that being an "all around magician" (as you call it) creates--that I can do magic with anything handed to me and that props do no limit me. I find this also offers me more opportunities to connect with people and to bring them in to what I'm doing. I'm not "the card guy" or "the coin guy." Pigeon-holing yourself into those roles will just beg laymen to ask the question, "Can you do magic with anything else besides _______?"

If you were a real magician you would be able to create magic with anything around you. And if Robert Houdin was correct, that is what we are all trying to emulate.
 
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Dec 18, 2007
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I was just wondering to myself - Is it alright to be an all around magician?

When I say all around, I don't literally mean someone that does everything from stage magic to cardistry, and everything in between. Take for instance myself. I have interest in cards, have always performed with them but they aren't my favorite. Magic with ordinary objects is my absolute favorite, with coin magic being my second favorite. I also love to perform sponge balls. For a good while, I have had an off/on interest in cardistry and here lately I have found minor interest in mental magic (not full blown mentalism, just mental magic to add into my regular magic).

So, my questions to you - is it alright to be an all around (or very widely diverse) magician? Is it hard to be this sort of magician?

Thanks,
Robby

Robby, what you have described in your post sounds more like the typical Bar Mage than anything. You might want to take a look at the work & career of Tom Mullica and for that matter Harry Anderson, both of whom were very much like you in how they saw things. Too, there is absolutely nothing out of the ordinary when it comes to a traditional magician that does a decent close-up bit along with a "stand-up" act (for clubs) and eventually, an actual stage act/show that features a handful of larger effects and that ambiguous young assistant (or two). It's even normal for such folks to have at least one major escape (aside from an Sub Trunk or Assistant's Revenge type bit... something that seems more "legit" for lack of a better term) and probably a bit of Mental Magic akin to Larry Becker's Casino Royale, Don Wayne's Dream Vision, etc. (just stay away from pieces developed as straight Mentalism such as the whole "I can bend anything" gambit so many are enthralled by and Book Tests for that matter... work with material THAT LOOKS LIKE A MAGIC TRICK and you'll be doing Mental Magic vs. meshing things together and blurring the lines... there's more to it than that but I'm trying to be brief).

THE PROBLEM (as I've hinted at in the above) is one novices want to literally do "it all"... they want to build a stage show (that typically costs at least $100,000.00 + for a basic show before you get into transportation, up-keep, insurance and all those other "hidden" costs + personnel headaches) and too, they want the kiddie birthday show, an escape act, mental act, close-up act, manipulation act, etc. In other words they won't have a clue how to do ANY OF IT WELL but a heck of a lot of it "mediocre". This is one reason why the VETERANS that have been around for more than a decade working consistently (150--200+ major gigs a year vs. maybe, one a month for the typical dreamer) tell those that ask for their guidance, to keep things SIMPLE and learn how to focus and become exceptional in one area before moving on.

CLARIFICATION HERE... This does not mean that you play at something for a couple of weeks and think you have it down pat but rather, invest in the material, techniques and TIME that will allow you to "perfect" each aspect of that particular sequence (a.k.a. single piece done in your routine/act). Major Award Winning Acts like Ger Copper, Richard Ross, Shimada, Lance Burton, etc. ALL invested years doing the same exact material over and over again (in some cases, before they'd even risk doing it in public) before considering even National competitions let alone FISM or, in the case of certain "legends" of Las Vegas, before they'd hit the stage with a piece (you ought to hear what Marvin Roy (Mr. Electric), Peter Pit and for that matter Sigfried & Roy went through before adding a piece to their show... LEARN FROM THE WINNERS!) Magic is overly saturated by huge (and typically bruised) egos that want to find short-cuts vs. paying the piper. But if you honestly LEARN each bit that goes into your repertoire before showing it to anyone; that is when you will actually become a "Magician" vs. some clown that does magic tricks (you have no idea how many times I heard these same words "preached" to me when I was in my teens & twenties by my various teachers as well as major players like Al Goshman who told me how he was forced into learning the very same lesson before he started gaining any kind of recognition).

With close to 40-years (more or less) under my belt I only have two key specialties when it comes to the sort of consistent work I've done in magic; Grand Illusion and Mentalism (with moderate sprinklings of escape/stunt work and a big heaping cup-full of the Bizarre). Granted, I've done a bit of table magic here and there as well as busking, but rarely for more than a season every now and then when "rent was due" or I physically couldn't do the bigger dates. Such situations are a matter of "need" vs. "personal focus"; even now, with roughly 20 or so years vested into Mentalism type work, I still have a deep passion for the big props and am still called upon by various folk to aid them in developing an effect, staging a routine, etc. But, it's not my area of focus now days and my understanding of some of the new technology that's come along, is grossly lacking :eek:

Just One More Point... I mention the idea of "Learn the Effect" and it goes much deeper than just playing with a prop out of the package or a routine you found in a book. Rather, you want to become intimate with the material you do and not just for sake of trivia, but so you are "armed" with knowledge of the effect's evolution and alternative methods for accomplishing either the same thing or something very close to it.

Why would you want to have that sort of knowledge?

Because you WILL be asked (challenged) to repeat a bit or else you will be met-up by a drunk jerk that wants to catch you up. By knowing how to do a bit without a particular gaff or advantage, you are able to address such situations and over time, you will find that you become more creative and able to cultivate your own piece (s) out of that foundation concept. This is what allows magic to grow and it's likewise what allows those that hold to such a philosophy, to gain reputation as an "expert" early on... just look at guys like Ken Dyne (Kennedy), Looch, Luke Jermay... I've known most all of them since their mid-teens before folks were paying attention to them (often mocking them) but look at where they are at today... all because some old curmudgeon kicked them in the rubber parts and challenged them to challenge themselves in becoming more than some clown that did tricks or thrived off theory.

Every effect I do or have done since the mid-1960s as part of a paying gig, was always researched; it's something my father drilled into me when it came to anything I had an interest in -- anything! It's how he, a man with a 6th grade education, became the supervisor over college educated engineers that hadn't a clue... got his commercial pilots and sea going skipper's license and much more. Given his shortcomings, this is one rule (gift) the old guy instilled that "took" and that I actually cherish simply because it has allowed me to go further than I'd probably ever had gone. But let me give you one quick example as to what this kind of commitment means -- the Asrah Levitation.

This is one of my favorite or all favorite effects in all of magic and over the years I've worked with just about every possible configuration to it that exists and then some... well over a dozen completely different gimmicks, techniques, hook-ups & controls tied to a single effect concept. The result was my being able to perform this wonderful piece in an open field, living room or grand stage and I could make it do far more than raise up & down and make the girl vanish... if I wished... Same can be said with the Sawing which I've likewise had a very long love affair and ultimately owned at least a half-dozen or more versions for the very same reasons I had all the different Asrah gimmicks... BUT (and this is important), you must be working very steadily and at good money, to afford such assets. I don't know of many major names of the grand illusion world that are doing or would do the same as I did but my pack-rat nature is a bit more chronic than theirs :eek:

I hope I've not confused you, frustrated you or confounded you with all these bits of insight. The key things I want you to leave with are;

* Yes, it's ok to be versatile but be wise in how you do it

* FOCUS on what you do so you can sustain a single image that will take you to the type of markets and career destiny you're envisioning (and stick with it for at least 3-5 years)

* LEARN YOUR MATERIAL! You don't have to warehouse it all, but you do need to have a sense of resource that will aid you as both, performer and in the role of evolving "expert" when it comes to the effects you perform and things on which you speak.


NOTE TO STAFF... can't get the bullet point feature to work right; shows in preview but not when posting.
 
Jan 1, 2009
2,241
3
Back in Time
Generally speaking you don't want to put too much information on your business card. If you really want to work in different fields then leave all that stuff for your website. But for your Business card, it should generally be clutter free and maybe say something like "Bar Magician" or "Children's Magician" if you mainly do those things.

As for Specializing in one category of magic. There really is nothing wrong with it, A lot of guys make a great living doing nothing but card magic and a lot of guys make a great living out of doing just coins or whatever. Just because a few people may not like card magic or coins or whatever. Doesn't mean you have to appeal to everybody. You can't please everybody and you really shouldn't try, because in the long run you'll burn out.
 
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