i was wondering if anyone of you are atheists.i strongly believe that skepticism and magic go hand in hand.Some famous atheist magicians are james randi,banachek,Penn and teller...
Are you an atheist?
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Agnosticism is different from atheism, by the way.
But yes. Just so you know achuthan - topics on religion are generally closed pretty quickly, since levels of tolerance are incredibly low from a small minority of people on both sides.
However, you are not alone - I know of some here who are atheist, and some who are religious. Similarly, magic is often used in a religious context for those who wish to perform in churches and similar groups, and in a non-religious context for those who lean that way as well.
It's a personal choice. The only thing I strongly dislike is intolerance. In any case, it's likely that this will be closed, if only on precedent...
But yes. Just so you know achuthan - topics on religion are generally closed pretty quickly, since levels of tolerance are incredibly low from a small minority of people on both sides.
However, you are not alone - I know of some here who are atheist, and some who are religious. Similarly, magic is often used in a religious context for those who wish to perform in churches and similar groups, and in a non-religious context for those who lean that way as well.
It's a personal choice. The only thing I strongly dislike is intolerance. In any case, it's likely that this will be closed, if only on precedent...
Indeed. A good subject by it's very nature, but a subject most magic forums have not been able to politely handle in the past. Keep it polite everyone.
To answer the question, no.
To make an observation on the LuseifHo's post - I could also say that I am somewhat anti-atheist, but I will not. Saying something like that right up front tells every Atheist who posts after me that I hate them. Not at all an intelligent move in a thread that is likely to get heated.
Just saying.
L
See, that's exactly what I'm talking about, right there.
People just can't resist taking a swipe at someone who doesn't share their beliefs (often citing stereotypical, incorrect or exaggerated views).
I personally support Chuthulu, and the church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
It's not god that I have issues with, It's his fan club that I can't stand.
It's not god that I have issues with, It's his fan club that I can't stand.
Pretty much sums up my thoughts right there.
But yeah, if I had to choose a single belief system (which I am quite reluctant to do, solely due to the organizations that surround each), it would definitely be the Jedi religion.
I have never, ever, had a performance in which someone asked my religious principals. Just because I am one way or another, has no impact on the magic I impart onto my spectators. I feel it would be quite bad if you let you're audience know your religion.
I take the same stance I take on first dates and debates... no politics and no religion.
I take the same stance I take on first dates and debates... no politics and no religion.
Ahh, my brethren! Greetings from The House Of Rigatoni & The Wagon Wheel Wonder Twins.
I personally don't classify myself as anything. The reason for me doing so, is because I don't truly know what does and does not exist, and i'm not gonna pretend otherwise. I just have a fascination with mythology. I find the matters to be interesting, and nothing more.
10,000 years i believe is the number. current age creation the world was created as if it had already been around that long so that it could immediately support human life.
that or gap theory.(don't buy it)
or intelligent design. (this either)
anyways creation is the smallest story in the bible in my view. believe what you want about creation the gospel is the real story.
i personally am doing a show for a childrens sermon next sunday. deviant behavior. jay sankey.
i'm a christian.
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this entire post makes me laugh, repeatedly. wheres visual artist these days?
I wouldn't say that magic and atheism go hand in hand, as already on this thread there are many different beliefs revealed (and I'm sure much much more that are out there).
I agree with praetoritevong, it is indeed a sad state that this topic cannot be discussed without a few who ruin it. There is a ton of deep magic related conversation that could take place around this. Steve Cohen interviewed a philosopher on his blog recently (who seemed to be a very aggressive atheist). He raised some really interesting questions about how an audience thinks and perceives the world around them, and how they perceive a magic show. Very interesting.
I agree with praetoritevong, it is indeed a sad state that this topic cannot be discussed without a few who ruin it. There is a ton of deep magic related conversation that could take place around this. Steve Cohen interviewed a philosopher on his blog recently (who seemed to be a very aggressive atheist). He raised some really interesting questions about how an audience thinks and perceives the world around them, and how they perceive a magic show. Very interesting.
There are so many things I can say here.
First and foremost, you shouldn't assume that atheists are more skeptical than religious people (I know you aren't saying that explicitly, but I suspect you feel this way). There have been a pretty large number of scientists who are/were religious and that appears pretty surprising given that good scientists should never take anything on pure faith.
Also, there is a connection between magic and skepticism, but it isn't as strong as you think. While you can point to people like Houdini, Randi and Penn and Teller who exposed fakes and frauds and tried to educate the public, there are many other magicians who tend to believe in supernatural stuff even though they should know better. Doug Henning believed that transcendental meditation would help him really levitate (in violation of some very basic laws of physics). He was one the best. How do you explain his lack of skepticism?
Also, I have seen T11 trolled a couple of times over the past year. There was one spectacular example of a douchebag who came here and claimed some sort of psychic abilities. I simply ignored the guy because I suspected he was either trolling or delusional, but many people here gave him the benefit of the doubt even though his claims were fruitier and nuttier than trail mix. That thread ran into several pages even though it was obvious that it was a waste of time after the third page.
Of course, people eventually lost interest in that moron, but the point is that even magicians can and will fall for this kind of stuff. Being a true skeptic is hard, because you need to constantly reevaluate your beliefs. You also need to understand the scientific method as a way of evaluating the truth of claims that seem either counter intuitive or just plain impossible.
That was a long rant, but I would say that you should ultimately realize that magicians are also human, and therefore can be fooled by expert tricksters. The fact that magicians are familiar with some methods of deception only means that conmen have to think outside the box to fool magicians.
Or, read classic texts. Exhibit A, Derren Brown. Someone, please pick up a copy of Annemann, and stop wasting your time trying to google "Derren Brown Psychology Trick NLP".
Magicians are just laymen with bunny rabbits on their business cards.
Magicians are just laymen with bunny rabbits on their business cards.
It's hard to label myself an atheist (I prefer nontheist or humanist), because I can never truly disprove a god. But in the same sense, nobody can ever truly disprove Santa Clause, the Easter Bunny, or fairies at the bottom of a garden. But we all take it for granted that none of these things exist. I take the same outlook on god and religion in general. The only belief system towards god that I respect and could see how they reached their outcome is that of Francis Collins. He manages to bring the Big Bang, evolution by natural selection, and God into one belief system, and, although I don't buy into it, I can see where his logic is coming from.
Like everyone else has said, though, this isn't really the proper place for a religious debate. And I have found that it is much, much easier to just tell the person that you're open to speaking in person or on the phone about the subject, because online debates tend to get really, really out of hand when they are about controversial subjects about politics or religion. So yes, I am a nontheist, and I would be happy to discuss it with any of you via PM, but this will be the last thing I post in this thread before it catapults out of control.
Like everyone else has said, though, this isn't really the proper place for a religious debate. And I have found that it is much, much easier to just tell the person that you're open to speaking in person or on the phone about the subject, because online debates tend to get really, really out of hand when they are about controversial subjects about politics or religion. So yes, I am a nontheist, and I would be happy to discuss it with any of you via PM, but this will be the last thing I post in this thread before it catapults out of control.
im an atheist. i support people to believe what they do, as long as they don't push it on others. I have reasons for what i believe ranging from opinions on translations of texts, historical hate, and most importantly my own experiences. Being legally dead twice, and not seeing a "bright light" as well as my other experiences influence my beliefs, im sure you have your reasons too.
Nope.
I believe there is a higher power and also that somewhere out there, in some form, there is real magic.
I also disagree with the crux of the initial post on this thread "that skepticism and magic go hand in hand." The best magicians I've ever seen perform are the ones who believe there is something divine and magical out there worth exploring (i.e. David Copperfield, David Blaine, Paul Harris, etc.).
I believe there is a higher power and also that somewhere out there, in some form, there is real magic.
I also disagree with the crux of the initial post on this thread "that skepticism and magic go hand in hand." The best magicians I've ever seen perform are the ones who believe there is something divine and magical out there worth exploring (i.e. David Copperfield, David Blaine, Paul Harris, etc.).
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