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Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by achuthan1988, May 15, 2010.
i meant to say something along these lines as well. naming famous magicians means nothing.
I am Agnostic, weird considering that I play guitar in a Christian Rock band.
I celebrate Christmas and what not because God, son of God, or not; Jesus was an awesome dude.
Not necessarily. You have three options when considering Jesus: he was either who he said he was, he was a lunatic, or he was a liar. So if you don't believe he was God, you have two options: he was either insane, or a horrible man and a liar in misleading all those people. Idea originally posed by C.S. Lewis.
there's another option for jesus adjones, he existed and lived his life, with no bad intent and no lies, just as a man, and then almost a millennia later a group of dudes in robes decided to re-write history, publishing what they wanted, changing facts and omitting anything they didn't like so as to change an image of a man who had been dead before they even were a thought so as to further their agenda and power.
...except that there is way too much credible historical evidence against your premise.
I'm surprised this isn't closed yet. Surely you can have your non-magic related debates in a theology forum.
As if we need more conflict on these boards.
such as? just to let you know im a religious studies minor and just finished a course in religious history... so im ready to debate, not argue.
on second thought.. maybe we shouldn't.. In my experience there are three things that never will be resolved. Abortion, Politics and Religion. Even if we do debate neither one of us will change our opinion so maybe its best to let this thread fade while its still civil.
Actually, I get asked all the time. I think when you present truly profound things, people want to know your stance on the profound.
And if religion is the ground of all being, as tillich suggests, then it will by its very nature impace the magic you do, as it will ever choice and action you make in your life.
Unless you actually consider the history of our art. Magic began not in the theaters, but around the fire. Shamans used secret knowledge in order to create miracles.
Heron of Alexandria exposed the mechanics behind the temples of ancient egypt which caused doors to open and statues to speak in order to convince followers of the presence of their dieties.
Seneca wrote of court advisors who could read sealed messages before the king.
So much for magic and skepticism going hand in hand.
I am a 100 percent Christian. I believe that Jesus died on the cross for all of our sins for that we should have the right to salvation. Do i mock the other religions??? No. Which is why i can hang out or kick it with an atheist. I am just comfortable with my religion enough to not let any other one affect mines. I am not blind to how people who call themeselves Christians act out in a non Christian manner. Thats something i think create more Atheistist beliefs.
If i was to use this in a magic term I am saying this. A magician who firmly believes in the magic oath goes and becomes a revealer of magic. Does that not make him a magician??? No. It means he has broken a rule. But he still is a skilled magician.
Thats a thing i think people forget to see about Christians. They stand for one thing,(love,worship in the one true God,and dignity) and courrpt minds withing the Christian community defy the rules forcing other religious beliefs.
Honestly, we don't know if we are worshipping the true religion. If we are ,good for us. If not, we are partaking what may be known as idoltry. But from my knowledge, idoltry happens when we let our fame, money, and status make us feel more important that the next man. So i guess most are safe. I do not believe in pagan or any religion that speaks against Jesus. Our faith in Jesus is the only thing (to me) that matters. IF we believe in him. Then i think we are all on the right path. What a lot of people don't know is the fact that Catholic, Methodist, Protestants, and others are all based on a form of Christianity. There are little nuances that seperates us all. But the belief that Jesus died for the salvation of mankind is what keeps in on the right path. Also if you are willing to love your fellow man (women and men) more than yourself, but love God first and foremost. Thats basically whats most of these religious groups are about. Everything else is just customary.
Hope i didn't offend anyone i just wanted to shed some light on my studies and daily living...
Im a Christian and I believe the world is millions of years old. Most Christians believe the same way, at least the ones I run into.
Ladys and Gentlemen! The one! The only! DarkWitness!
I'm Roman Catholic and proud of it!
By the way, Christians don't believe the world is 6000 years old. We believe, like you, that it is several million years old. Genesis was written using symbolism. It is not meant to be interpreted literally.
However I respect people of all religous beliefs and will not try to push mine on you if you don't wish it.
Cedric, I agree with you!
I am happy to see that there has not been a large amount fighting on this thread...
I can honestly say that i have never been asked my religious beliefs while performing magic before..
But to respond to your statement saying that skepticism and magic go hand in hand.... what do you mean by "Magic" specifically? The attraction to magic? skill in magic?
I am a christian and find no conflict with my magic or my religion...
I might be a little off topic, but...
I don't think magic and atheism really go hand in hand, magic is displaying the impossible, displaying all that skeptics disbelieve. But then again, the secrets behind the "magic" could cause people to lose some of their belief.
I’m not an atheist…
Atheism is a largely emotional decision made behind the guise of logic, reason, and science. Atheists claim nothing more than non-belief in anything other than what can be discovered by science. When challenged atheists often resort to childish name calling and exaggeratingly mock the beliefs of those deemed “religious,” as shown by the posts of achuthan1988 and William Draven. And William Draven is right, he doesn’t have a problem with God, he has made his decision to become an atheist based on his observations of the “religious.” The reason for atheists lies deeper than what they say. As adjones said, “I can never truly disprove a god. But in the same sense, nobody can ever truly disprove Santa Clause, the Easter Bunny, or fairies at the bottom of a garden;” it appears someone has Santa Syndrome. And to achuthan1988, the second post you made in this thread makes it look like you’re not being very open-minded for someone who claims to be so scientific and rational.
The purpose of a lie is to convince people to believe it is the truth. In this case the lie is atheism and the convincer is skepticism and religion. Atheists use their reprobate mind to decide that there is no God, and they can do as they please with no consequences. When one who stands up cries something contradictory to what they say, telling them that are wrong, “intolerance” is wailed out like police siren. The truth is the truth, tolerant or not, and that is all that matters. Everything I have said thus far comes from my observations and debates with atheists in the past.
And to the Christians, the world is not millions of years old. This was done in an effort to bind man’s fallible, secular ideals with that of the Bible.
Anyone who wishes to take this deeper can private message me. And based on the idea that religion is nothing more than a cultural hobby that one does because they were born in a certain society…
...I'm not religious, either.
Thats my line!!!!
But in all seriousness though,I hate how people go off into "groups" in their religion. There are so many types of christians its not even funny.
Ive been an atheist when I was a kid and experiencing different aspects of this world and studying religions made me believe again.
The practice of martial arts,the philosophy of it and buddhism I learned in training muay thai made me believe again.
I still cant believe I was so stupid to think there wasnt such a thing as a divine power.
Call it god,vishnu,divinity,etc. Whatever. Its all the same god.
Different cultures just have different names for what we all universally know is there.
There he is!!
Thank you! Grazi!
Alot of things of the bible are symbolic. Like when it is said "we are the salt of the earth.." common sense tells us this isnt meant to be taken literally.
People are so quick to judge other peoples beliefs without knowing a single thing about them. If you THINK you know about a religion,culture or person then you dont know anything. So dont speak out against it.
Two of the main reasons why there is so much animosity amongst religions. ignorance and arrogance.
I am glad you can simplify the entirety of atheism into one all inclusive statement.
It's not presumptuous of you at all.
And I did not know all atheists required scentific validation for the entirety of their belief systems.
Apparently some of the athesists I know aren't doing it right.
I think our problems in discussing religion stems from peoples oversimplification of what they either do not understand or simply disagree with.
I know many atheists who are anything BUT skeptics and many religious people who are open minded and willing to consider evidence without prejudgement.
I will leave you with one thought:
A believer believes one thing;
A skeptic, many.