Celebracadabra
- Thread starter RobberBoy
- Start date
Oh stop it.
If you can't figure out how to turn something like this to your advantage, I doubt you'll ever make it as a professional.
Oh, and nice potshot at Ellusionist. How dare a company want to make money? What is this world when coming to when people actually think about having more than a couple dollars to their name?
If you're scared that your friends will find out that magic shops exist, you're a little too late.
I get the impression some of these people believe that saying anything negative about Jeff McBride or Max Maven would result in a thunderbolt striking them down.
If you think that Theory 11 won't do publicity stunts and advertising in the future, you're only kidding yourself.
Where is everybody getting this weird notion that to be a true magician you should not be making any money? Who believes that crap? I'm serious, tell me. Where does this intensely bizarre idea come from that the only real magicians are the starving artists who are completely inept at all things business and marketing?
I said nothing about publicity stunts. I said I don't think they would go the business route. Read what I wrote again. Or read the text you quoted me on. Either one works.
copperfield14 said:
Because those are what performers do. They hold performances of their art. Not a reality show, which many people hate to begin with. If they used lay people, I'm willing to bet less people would care. But as soon as they brought celebrities into this, and added a cash prize for winning, I think that is what people are pissed about. It can be viewed by some as belittling magic.
-ThrallMind
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By business route, I take that to mean they actually advertise and think about all that soulless corporate stuff, like turning a profit this year.
If this is not the case, please enlighten me.
We'll here are my thoughts. Although I understand the economics and the steps to keeping a business growing are difficult decisions to make. You have to keep you loyal customers happy but at the same time you have to grow as a business or whats the point? Sponsoring this show bothers me for many reasons and Ill explain myself for those reasons.
1- We have a responsibility keeping this art a secret to only those deserving of it.
2- A handful of the tricks available at E are extrordinary (Stigmata, Silver Dream, even Dream of Aces) these can be purchased by an individual not serious to the art willing to expose the methods.
3- They make it a point to say Ellusionist atleast once every 15 minutes throughout the show realy pushing the door to all tourists.
OK now saying that.
Where do we begin to feel comfortable with all this access to our secrets. Alot of us work in the field and we love performing some of these tricks. When do we except the fact all our hard work is just at a click for the next youtube exposer?
I dont believe E was in a financial crumble and in a position where corporate sell out was the answer.
Steerpike as the voice for E here and I am as well If you claim that this doesnt make you uncomfortable just the bit Im sorry I cant believe that. Whats done is done and all we can do is just except the decision E has made and theres nothing else to say.
Shane
1- We have a responsibility keeping this art a secret to only those deserving of it.
2- A handful of the tricks available at E are extrordinary (Stigmata, Silver Dream, even Dream of Aces) these can be purchased by an individual not serious to the art willing to expose the methods.
3- They make it a point to say Ellusionist atleast once every 15 minutes throughout the show realy pushing the door to all tourists.
OK now saying that.
Where do we begin to feel comfortable with all this access to our secrets. Alot of us work in the field and we love performing some of these tricks. When do we except the fact all our hard work is just at a click for the next youtube exposer?
I dont believe E was in a financial crumble and in a position where corporate sell out was the answer.
Steerpike as the voice for E here and I am as well If you claim that this doesnt make you uncomfortable just the bit Im sorry I cant believe that. Whats done is done and all we can do is just except the decision E has made and theres nothing else to say.
Shane
T11 is allowed to think about turning a profit. They are allowed to advertise. I just don't see them running the place as a business. More as a community that happens to sell stuff.
Look at how E advertises:
Ellusionist said:
Also, let's not forget on the commercial that they did on Celebracadabra that actually said the Shadow Masters is a deck that will let you perform magic like the pros, which also happens to be on their website:
Ellusionist said:
Also, they are conditioning new people to magic to go and perform same day you learned something:
Ellusionist said:
All this here for your own reference.
This is sad. It's all advertising, and in my opinion, false advertising. I do NOT see T11 going this route.
A publicity stunt is something akin to to what David Blaine does. Such as hanging himself in a box for a week without food.
A five week or so show is not
A reality show, especially one by VH1, is already a dime a dozen. Add in celebrities, and it makes it worse. I'm sorry, but I just can't take reality shows seriously anymore. They are like high school garage bands. Everybody has one. I don't want to see this also happening to magic.
And T11 already does advertise. Nothing wrong with that. But they do it in their own field. Such as Magic Magazine. I do not think T11 advertises, nor do I think they ever will advertise, late night on random channels after dating infomercials or before how you should buy the next greatest blender. E did this with one of their commercials. This seems pathetic, in my opinion.
Better?
-ThrallMind
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I think I'm going to throw up.
You can't take something and then declare it to be something else just because it's convenient for you. Theory 11 is a business. Call it what it is, and don't pretend that doing that is somehow a bad thing.
Yeah, bragging about a feature they offer is something only shills do, am I right?
Oh no, an advert promising instant gratification!
Where were you when magic companies sold gimmicks in the back of magazines and comic books for the last 50 years?
I own that DVD. Yes, you can perform some of those effects the same day you bought it.
However, because I own the DVD, I also know that Brad continually emphasizes the importance of practice and testing.
Your move.
I have the Ellusionist homepage bookmarked, thank you.
Obviously, you haven't studied advertising much at all.
And Theory 11 promise instant gratification as well. They're just more subtle about it because most of their audience is already practicing magicians.
So? Doesn't mean you can't benefit from it.
Kim Wyatt has encourage her fans through her blog to support magicians and magic. And this is bad?
Think beyond your own microcosm.
That's the beginning of kvlt kiddie syndrome.
So it's pathetic to rotate in new blood?
I don't understand why everyone is arguing about this. I mean, yeah it sucks that this show seems to be taking some of the glory out of magic by making it a publicity stunt for celebrities.
Why not look at the positive aspect of this though. The other day I was performing for a person and after I did a few tricks for them, they said wow, I thought card magic was a dying art. I don't know about you but that kinda scares me.
Although the show doesn't seem to have the best interest in mind when it comes to publicity, at leats they are getting magic out there. This show just might strike some sort of interest in some one watching and they might want to pursue magic. I think that is a good aspect of this show.
It also doesn't make any sense that anyone is mad at Ellusionist. By now you guys should have realized that Ellusionist does stuff like that. They are a business, that's how business is run, you sponser people. I don't think it would really matter who was sponsering this show, you guys would be pissed off at anyone who decided to sponsored this, even if you had never heard of them before.
Also think about all the people that make their livings on magic. This show just might get a lot of people interested in magic and therefore cause more people to want to see magic shows live. I don't know about you, but I think that is kinda the point of magic, to have people to perform for. Without interested spectators, who are willing to pay to see your show, you would never make a living doing what they do best, magic.
Finally, what's done is done. Arguing about this show isn't going to change anything, so you might as well give up.
Orin10
Why not look at the positive aspect of this though. The other day I was performing for a person and after I did a few tricks for them, they said wow, I thought card magic was a dying art. I don't know about you but that kinda scares me.
Although the show doesn't seem to have the best interest in mind when it comes to publicity, at leats they are getting magic out there. This show just might strike some sort of interest in some one watching and they might want to pursue magic. I think that is a good aspect of this show.
It also doesn't make any sense that anyone is mad at Ellusionist. By now you guys should have realized that Ellusionist does stuff like that. They are a business, that's how business is run, you sponser people. I don't think it would really matter who was sponsering this show, you guys would be pissed off at anyone who decided to sponsored this, even if you had never heard of them before.
Also think about all the people that make their livings on magic. This show just might get a lot of people interested in magic and therefore cause more people to want to see magic shows live. I don't know about you, but I think that is kinda the point of magic, to have people to perform for. Without interested spectators, who are willing to pay to see your show, you would never make a living doing what they do best, magic.
Finally, what's done is done. Arguing about this show isn't going to change anything, so you might as well give up.
Orin10
Isn't that exactly what your advertising studies teaches you to do?
My point is E is using the As Seen On TV kind of advertising, which I personally hate. Make sure you read what I said as opinion, and not fact. That is where my original post came from which started all this. Opinion. Which I'm entitled, to, no?
I'm going to end our discussion here. You are free to keep pick apart this post, I will just not be responding due to us both having our own opinions, and we could go back and fourth for a while.
-ThrallMind
Advertising is about appealling to people's sense of instant gratification. We are genetically programmed to think of instant gratification because back in caveman times, that meant the difference between life and death.
Also, advertising appeals to our self-interest. On an unconscious level, you're always looking out for number one.
Saying that a DVD can teach you a trick quickly to impress your friends is nowhere near the same as saying to yourself, "I hate corporations, but I like this particular store so I'm not going to call them a corporation even though they really are."
Opinions don't grant you carte blanche immunity from being wrong about something.
That defeats the entire purpose of a discussion board.
O Steerpike...I love watching your debates...
-Brad
PS: BTW did anyone else notice on the "E" commercial that they were showing pictures of the Shadow masters box as the free deck...but when they were showing the cards in action they were the Tigers?
-Brad
PS: BTW did anyone else notice on the "E" commercial that they were showing pictures of the Shadow masters box as the free deck...but when they were showing the cards in action they were the Tigers?
Which part? The idea of appealing to instant gratification or the idea of it being genetic programming to seek instant gratification?
Oh..... My ...GOD.
Today in class, mt friend said, "John, did you see thats how on channel 49? Celebra something."
I was like "****!"
I wish he didn't see ellusionist.com.
He asked If I knew how to do the beer bottle trick and the one handed shuffle.
Today in class, mt friend said, "John, did you see thats how on channel 49? Celebra something."
I was like "****!"
I wish he didn't see ellusionist.com.
He asked If I knew how to do the beer bottle trick and the one handed shuffle.
Both, what evidence or source suggests that advertising is design to appeal to instant gratification and that this is somehow inherently genetic to us. (I would be interested to see how you consider the basic premises of EQ and how it relates to the notion of instant gratification.)
The only thing that bothers me about Celebracadabra is that ellusionist purchased domagicfast.com and icanlearnmagic.com to advertise. They could've just linked to their site. Do they think ellusionist isn't memorable enough?
Will I watch Celebracadabra? Yes. Why? There is a huge lack of any kind of magic television shows, so I will watch any that comes along.
Will I watch Celebracadabra? Yes. Why? There is a huge lack of any kind of magic television shows, so I will watch any that comes along.
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