Classic Pass and Small Hands

Discussion in 'Magic Forum' started by Dario, Aug 26, 2009.

  1. hello to everyone,

    my name's Dario and i just started studying how to perform street magic.
    I understood the mechanics of the classic pass, and even if i can't cover it properly i am getting the hang of it, the problem is that i think my hands are too small for handling a bicycle deck properly; anyone of you had the same problem??

    is it something that i can overcome with practice or it will always be a limitation??

    thanks in advance
     
  2. You could possibly buy bridge sized cards, which are just smaller cards or you could try the invisible pass which is much easier in my opinion.
     
  3. #3 TheatreHead, Aug 26, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 26, 2009
    First off, congratulations for taking an interest in magic.

    A few questions:
    how long have you been doing magic?
    How long have you been practicing the pass for?
    What source are you learning the pass from?

    I ask the first question and second questions, because if you haven't been into magic for that long, you probably won't have the discipline
    to keep at the pass, and you may get discouraged and give up. It takes lots of people months just to get the mechanics of it down, then
    another while to get the angles down, then another while to get the timing down. Keep at it.

    I ask the third question, because if your learning the pass wrong, you could be making it a lot harder than it should be, but to answer your
    post:

    There aren't many sleights that exist that people with small hands can't do. I assure you, if you can hold a deck comfortably in your base
    hand, your hands are big enough to do a classic pass. Just keep practicing. You will have a harder time than others with bigger hands, but
    it's well worth it. My hands are small.

    Compare yours with mine, i assure you, mine are smaller. My hands are big enough for the pass.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Peace.
     
  4. i am learning from 'magia delle carte' by C. Rossetti, i also checked many videos on youtube.

    i've been seriously doing magic only since a week; before that i only performed the monte colors.

    i find more at ease with closeup magic, but i feel that is necessary to me that i learn the basics in every magic field

    have you got any other sources to suggest me?
     
  5. This question has been talked about a lot. It's a concern among more magicians than you would think.

    I myself have smaller than normal hands. It can not do a charlier cut with comfort since my fingers do not extend that far. So I had to learn how to squeeze the pack together and balance the two halves during the cut (hard to explain).

    My point is that you can accomplish the same effect with the classic pass. If you are getting the mechanics down, then great. You may just need to work on tilting the deck a little for covering issues. You can also use the pass during an off beat moment to further hide it from your spectators. If their eyes are not on your hands, it is of course easier to accomplish the move with less cover.

    Also, remember the rule that a larger action covers a smaller action. Bring your hands up from your waste to your chest during the off beat moment during the pass.

    There are lots of things you could do to help out. Those are just a few samples. Hope that helps. Good luck.

    Gerald
     
  6. i would strongly recommend against learning anything magic related all from youtube tutorials. most of them are just plain rubbish.

    Also, if you've only been doing magic for a week, I don't think it's a good idea for you to start learning the pass. Start to get all the basics down, like double lifts, false cuts/shuffles, basic controls, and then when you feel like you need extra tools to expand your repetoire, start moving onto more advanced sleights. If you do want to pursue learning the classic pass, I'd strongly suggest you take a look at Robert Giobbi's "Card College" series, I believe the pass is in volume 1.

    Even if you decide not to learn the pass, i'd highly recommend "card college" anyway. Even just volume 1. That series is pure gold. It was written for people who are just beginning learning card magic.

    But if you want DVDs, go with Ellusionist.
    For learning the pass: Ninja 2.
    For card basics, and good beginner tricks: Crash Course 1
    ^^when i say beginner, i don't mean that in a bad way. I just mean tricks that are more accesible and easy to people with less experience in magic.

    Please, no one hurt me for saying the "E" word, but they do have the best teaching for beginners.
     
  7. when the pass was first invented, it was never meant to be something to do when someone is burning your hands, it was supposed to be an offbeat motion while misdirection is being used. I cannot do a classic pass if someone is burning my hands so I just use it while misdirecting the audience
     
  8. thanks a lot theatherhead, i think we have almost the same size of hands, maybe mine are slightly bigger.

    i wanted to learn the pass, because i wathced it performed and my book suggests it as one of the milestones in card handling.

    are there easier tricks that you can suggest me? some that will impress my friends for sure :)

    by the way, i can perform a charlier cut quite well, so now i think it's just a matter of practice, thanks a lot
     
  9. #9 TheatreHead, Aug 26, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 26, 2009
    i thought it was invented to be done at the card table, right after you replaced the cards from cutting, whether the rest of the players are burning your hands or not?
     
  10. for 'burning your hands' you mean that the audience is staring closely at your hands, am i right?
     
  11. no problem.

    i've never heard of the book you mentioned, but i'll be sure to look into it sometimes.

    Some tricks I'd recommend:
    -Here then there http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpIcz8UjA9M (if you can double lift, and have a duplicate card, you should be able to do this trick)
    -3 card monte http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2kO_5cNF5k (Expert at the card table)
    -Twisting the aces http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsLMTz2lFpA
    -Dr. Daley's Last trick http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCJGibVxORY

    If anyone can help with sources here, that'd be cool, I can't remember where I learned the last 2 from.

    I can't really think of many specific tricks that are named, because they're so similar, but i can recommend sleights:
    -Double lift
    -Double under cut control
    -The Glide
    -Any colour change
    -Any force

    that's just to begin with. You could have a 5 card routine with just those sleights. No joke.
     
  12. yes, you're right.
     
  13. Just my advice, please don't use the double undercut when performing for other magicians, and if possible, even laymen. It's just... ehhhh. Not to mention ugly. In fact, start learning sleights that are economical and that achieve possibly two outcomes... such as: the convincing control. This sleight allows you to show a card's face cleanly and control it to the bottom in two small movements under cover while creating the illusion that the selection is outjogged i the center of the deck. You can incorporate a peek, and I have also developed a method to force a card using this sleight. This particular one is in Ernest Earick's " By Forces Unseen."

    Stop watching youtube and hit the book stacks. That's where you'll learn 150% better material that is taught 150% better, by qualified people.

    As for your hand size mate, my hands are smaller than those of the guy who posted the picture... and I eventually got the classic pass down. It took me forever, that being months and months to get the mechanics correctly adjusted to my hands, but it took a few more months getting down my angles and misdirection. It's a sleight that is devastating in idea and deadly when performed invisibly. Sorry for my "dramatic" words there, but that's just how I feel. You'll get it eventually, and don't feel discouraged when you see people performing the classic pass invisibly. Most of them have been doing it for years, if not decades. You'll find that we, with small hands, will have to adjust certain sleights and even move down to bridge sized cards, but one thing I overlooked a few years ago when I started magic was improving my finger strength and dexterity. Once you do that, it becomes exponentially easier to work with cards. That, and learning about tension and coming to control it with relaxation.
     
  14. thanks to everyone for the answers

    i prefer learning on books too, but because i am italian, it's difficult here to know and find english books.

    could you make me a list of the essential ones to read?
     
  15. Volume 2. ;)

    I found the explanation within Erdnase to be superb. Butin Italian? I'm looking in the Card College series for I remember to have readthe languages it was translated to. I remember German, English, Spanish and not sure if any more.

    EDIT - Also French, but that'd be it.
     
  16. I'm by no means someone to say this, but Aaron Fisher's 1-on-1 suggests: Card College, The Royal Road to Card Magic, Close-Up Card Magic, Supermagic, Card Magic of LePaul, Stars of Magic, Expert Card Technique and Expert at the Card Table.
     
    basel1 likes this.
  17. first off, why in all hell would you perform for other magicians? you shouldn't. that's just stupid.
    secondly, there's nothing wrong with the double undercut. if there was, it wouldn't be taught. if done properly, people shouldn't expect anything. it's just the massive break that most people have when doing it that makes it ugly.
    and lastly, i wouldn't recommend "By Forces Unseen" to a person who's been doing magic for a week.
     
  18. i'm not certain about this, but i'm pretty sure you can get "Expert at the Card Table" by S. W. Erdnase in Italian. And since the author of the "Card College" series, Roberto Giobbi, is Italian, I'd assume it's in Italian as well. Those 2 should be more than enough.
     
  19. so, to take it short, what videos or dvd do you suggest me? i wouldn't purchase them all at the moment (i am a student and i only earn money on math reviews), but if you could make me a list of them i can slowly build my magic shelf on my bookcase :)
     
  20. Alright
    First off its great that youre trying the pass.
    I have by far the smallest hands of any magicians I have seen, smaller than the picture posted. I cant cover an entire card, I cant perform some one handed cuts (Kryptonite, thumb cut, etc), but I can sufficiantly perform the pass and palm. Hand size is not a matter in this situation unless you have baby hands, in which case we cant help you.
    I learned the pass originally from Royal Road to Card Magic, the book. It taught me the basics and I was able to perform it effectively with misdirection after about 1 month of practising. It worked well but it was sometimes noisy or a bit fidgety.
    Lemme just say that in my 4 years of card magic, I have never used the pass as my main source of controlling. I only use it in specific oppurtunities where it is necessary or I am just feeling like it.
    The pass was first designed to be a control under misdirection, not to be burned under. As long as you can perform the move well and understand audience management and can perform with confidence, I am very sure you can pull it off. Although it was designed to be a move of misdirection, Hoffman used to say that any card magician had to be able to perform it or they could not be classified as a proper cardsman, which is technically quite bull. There are like a million more controls which are easier and can be burned at. If you are just a beginner in card magic, i do not suggest practising the pass. Although it is a hallmark of a good cardician, knowing it does not make you good at performing. I know a kid who has huge mits and can perform the pass with lots of cover, but he is horrible at performing. Every time he does it, he stares at his own hands and leans forward, afraid that people will see. Even if you dont flash, people will know something is up.
    I still never use the pass as a control, as I much rather a double lift or just a merlin tip over. Double undercuts work just fine and marlo tilts are great as well. I suggest collect an arsenal of controls you can perform really well so that you can handle all situations, then you can start practising the pass as somehting you just want to add on.
    If you really are that stubborn and full of yourself and think you can handle to perform a good pass, I suggest you take a look at the dvd by Ken Krenzel, its a great DVD and he has some advice I havent seen anywhere else. quite interesting... There are also DVDs on the many different types of passes. You can always perform a Herman pass which is wayyyy easier than a classic pass and still looks like the same thing.

    As for extra books and DVDs to buy... I would suggest Michael Ammar for card magic as he is quite the fun person... Gregory wilson, David Williamson, Simon Lovell, I would suggest thoughs for the moment...

    As for your goal to "learn all basics in every field of magic" is quite hard... adding the fact that you just began as well. Cards and coins can get started quite easily, but the start in fields such as mentalism, stage, manipulation, cabaret, etc... is just quite a hassle and quite pointless.

    good luck.
     

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