Draven Reflects upon the Wire.

I definitely agree some websites take more than the 40% - and 60% is a great deal. With that said, some companies do offer more. I don't think, though, openly discussing the payment other websites give is a good idea.

Why not? If we are going to open up the flood gates for people to self publish for profit, then I think they should be given the information about what else is out there in case they get itchy about not getting a good deal.
 
Sep 7, 2008
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Up to 70% are you serious?! Why would anyone sign on to such a contract? That's just... wow. Compared to that the wire is a steal.

Producing and publishing magic is not all about the money you make. It's about your reputation, the company's reputation, and bringing quality products to the magic community. Vanishing Inc., in particular, is consistent with bringing great, boundary-pushing material. That's why I signed their contract. (The download I was going to release with them will now be a DVD with Wizard FX Productions.)

If people are interested in finding out more about what other companies offer, they can contact the company with their product themselves. There's a reason the companies don't post their contracts/payment information publicly.
 
I'm pretty sure that unless a NDA is signed that information is considered public to anyone smart enough to know how to do the right kind of digging.

If the company's reputation is strong enough, then people will still sign with them regardless of the price they ask, soul, arm, leg, or otherwise.

Maybe I'm just being stubborn, and harsh over this? If this is so, please someone rebuke me, and I'll quietly go into my place. I am afraid I don't know enough on the back end of how business is done with respects to publishing material, and those colors are starting to show through now. I'm learning fast, but like everyone else I am still learning.
 

Jay Adra

Elite Member
Jul 11, 2011
332
3
Australia
www.jayadra.com
Question: Are we allowed to sell the download elsewhere, as well? For example, can it be on The Wire and our website? On The Wire and on another production company's website?

I'd like a formal answer to this as well, but I think we can safely assume we are allowed to do that. They've pointed out many times that WE own the content and all rights to it and they just act more as a distribution service.

Having said that, official clarification would be nice... though now thinking about it, I'd probably just link people from my website to my 'Wire' page for that effect and keep it all centralised.
 

Lyle Borders

vp of operations // theory11
Staff member
Aug 5, 2008
1,567
794
Seattle, WA
www.theory11.com
I'd like a formal answer to this as well, but I think we can safely assume we are allowed to do that. They've pointed out many times that WE own the content and all rights to it and they just act more as a distribution service.

Having said that, official clarification would be nice... though now thinking about it, I'd probably just link people from my website to my 'Wire' page for that effect and keep it all centralised.

I am working on that one for you now. I know what I think is correct, but I will get official word for you as soon as I can. That said, I know that the other websites in question may well have a problem with you having your trick here too, particularly if they actually produce it for you. If magictricksRus.com sees your Wire video, invites you to have it produced in house by them, and then does so, they probably won't want the older, cheaper filmed video to be available elsewhere for less $. We all seem to forget in a situation like this, it is not all theory11's preference. That is only half of the story.

Let's be sure to keep the rumors and hearsay out of this. If we think that magictricksRus.com's production fees are $50,000 up front in $100 bills, don't post it unless you know that to be true. Better if you can back it up. Like Draven said, unless there is an NDA is signed, there shouldn't be too much trouble in digging out the standards from another company you want to compare. If you have fact, by all means post it. Until then, rumors are very counter-productive.

L
 

j.bayme

ceo / theory11
Staff member
Jul 23, 2007
2,810
253
New York City
When you create a video and publish it on The Wire, you own it. You made it, you film it, you edit it, you write the description, you title it - you own it. Similar to posting a video on YouTube, you grant us the right to distribute it (for free or for a price you suggest), but we do not own it and we do not restrict anything you do with your work. Note that when a video is posted for free, we handle all of the secure downloading (people can't share the link) and bandwidth at our own expense, on the house.

We are expecting to enable submissions by the end of the day today. Over 300 artists have created accounts on The Wire in the past 24 hours, so we're super excited to see the first round of submissions begin. Note that to increase your chances of being accepted for publication, we recommend taking your time. Don't rush it. Focus on making it the best it can be in every way - both technically (practice until perfection) and aesthetically.
 
Sep 7, 2008
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Still, I don't think it's proper etiquette to publicly say what other companies pay. This is private information - the companies don't go around shouting out their payment information - and I think we should respect that, even if no NDA was signed. However, if people do decide to release this information, I think it would be only be fair if Theory11 and their artists reveal what they receive when they work. Personally, I don't share how much I make through magic products to ANYONE but family.

While I think it's definitely a cool idea, The Wire might encourage poor marketing. As seen earlier in this thread, many people's "creative juices" are starting to flow. People who haven't created, or even considered to create anything are now coming up with ideas. If one of these ideas they generate is decent, what are the chances they will wait a proper amount of time to publish? Will they actually work out the effect on real audiences or will they be in a rush to publish? I think many half-baked but semi-marketable ideas will be produced. People don't realize it takes years to come close to 'perfecting' a new trick. For me, it took me over two years to even identify a problem!

This poor behavior is also encouraged through various artists. People think they can create one day and publish the next, and there has been a prevalent example in the last year. While the magician at hand had the abilities to do this, most people simply do not.
 
Jan 1, 2009
2,249
3
Back in Time
Well I can submit some material almost right away, but my true worth won't be useful unless I can submit videos on theory, motivation, sales, and marketing.

I think a better idea would be to just submit those in a PDF form.

As for people sending in videos of their effects and whatnot. The main problem I have with this idea is that not everybody is a good teacher. I don't care how good your effect is or how original. Because if the person has a bad camera, and is a bad teacher.. It's going to be a huge pain in the ass trying to learn the effect.
 
Feb 20, 2011
40
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I think on theory/motivation/... videos are easier to understand and so more helpful. But I don't really like learning from books in any area :p.

But I also have to say that not anything in Magic & Cardistry is the trick or the move. I think some theory, performance tips, philosophies should also be viewed as the part they really play.
 

WitchDocIsIn

Elite Member
Sep 13, 2008
5,741
2,854
Still, I don't think it's proper etiquette to publicly say what other companies pay. This is private information - the companies don't go around shouting out their payment information" ... "While the magician at hand had the abilities to do this, most people simply do not.

My worries are basically the same. I'm thinking people will just rush to get something published, instead of insuring that the trick is actually good. I also think this will emphasize the creation of magic simply for the magic world. We, as magicians, need to remember that the people that matter are in front of the stage, not behind it.
 

j.bayme

ceo / theory11
Staff member
Jul 23, 2007
2,810
253
New York City
My worries are basically the same. I'm thinking people will just rush to get something published, instead of insuring that the trick is actually good. I also think this will emphasize the creation of magic simply for the magic world. We, as magicians, need to remember that the people that matter are in front of the stage, not behind it.

I agree with you - and we have and will continue to encourage artists to take their time, polish their idea, and make it the best that it can be - whether it's a trick or a flourish or anything. Unfinished ideas and unoriginal concepts will not be approved per our established guidelines and Terms of Service. This and that have little to do with The Wire, though, just as iTunes was not and is not a catalyst for bad music. Sure, there are mediocre songs on iTunes, but unless I'm searching for them, I don't see them.

To succeed on The Wire, whether your effect is free or paid, you must have an idea. And it must be great. I'm excited more than I can begin to explain to see what everyone will come up with, and I'm confident that within the coming weeks, you will see some incredible new effects from known and unknown creators that you will be seeing for the first time.

Provided this amazing platform, with responsible oversight, I believe that innovation in magic will advance and improve more than ever before. Just like with the Billboard Charts in the music industry, it will be YOU - the community - not us, that is the judge of what is the best at the top of The Charts.
 
Aug 31, 2007
2,025
1
31
Long Island/New York
I think a better idea would be to just submit those in a PDF form.

As for people sending in videos of their effects and whatnot. The main problem I have with this idea is that not everybody is a good teacher. I don't care how good your effect is or how original. Because if the person has a bad camera, and is a bad teacher.. It's going to be a huge pain in the ass trying to learn the effect.
If that's your only concern, we have a review section in the forums for that. Take time to read what others have said about the trick you would like to download instead of impulse buying.
 
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