Ethics Question

Sep 10, 2008
915
3
QLD, AUS
So I work at a magic stall, and one of our best sellers is the Svengali deck.
Now, the instructions that come with it are horrible. Spelling/grammar mistakes, extremely vague instructions, etc., and this just annoys me.
I'm wondering if it's ethical to make a small booklet about handling and presentation of the Svengali deck.

If anyone could help by giving solid reasons, not just your opinions.

Also, any history about the origin of svengali decks would be appreciated.

Thanks.
 
May 3, 2008
1,146
4
Hong Kong
Not exactly sure what you mean. Do you mean sell the booklet you write or just give it out with people who buy the deck?
there are already loads of books on the uses of a svengali deck and they usually cost... very little... like a few bucks?
 
Sep 10, 2008
915
3
QLD, AUS
Not exactly sure what you mean. Do you mean sell the booklet you write or just give it out with people who buy the deck?
there are already loads of books on the uses of a svengali deck and they usually cost... very little... like a few bucks?

sorry. I meant include the booklet with the deck.
 
Sep 10, 2008
915
3
QLD, AUS
and not where I live, where the biggest Borders of the capital of our state only has a grand total of 4, maybe 5 magic books, if you consider Erdnase a magic book.
 
Dec 12, 2009
273
0
London Uk
I think if it helps people with the svengali deck handling etc then you should do it, I think you can sell the booklet seperatly also try researching copyright stuff anything like that
 
May 3, 2008
1,146
4
Hong Kong
I wouldnt suggest selling it but including it should be fine as long as you credit anyone...
Selling it would just give you so much more to worry about and no offense but as I have said before, there are many Svengali books out there already. Yours wouldnt be any better than any of the ones out there already.
 

RealityOne

Elite Member
Nov 1, 2009
3,744
4,076
New Jersey
So I work at a magic stall, and one of our best sellers is the Svengali deck.

Now, the instructions that come with it are horrible. Spelling/grammar mistakes, extremely vague instructions, etc., and this just annoys me.
I'm wondering if it's ethical to make a small booklet about handling and presentation of the Svengali deck.

If anyone could help by giving solid reasons, not just your opinions.

Also, any history about the origin of Svengali decks would be appreciated.

Thanks.

I don't see a problem with this as long as you don't re-write the instructions correcting the mistakes. Start from scratch and do a better job. Rather than a booklet, just type it up on a sheet of paper (front and back if necessary) and fold up the paper in thirds (top to bottom) and then in thirds (side to side) so you have a sheet of paper that is just slightly larger than the deck.

Why do I think this is OK ethically? First and foremost, giving someone instructions on how to use a prop they purchased isn't exposure. They already know the secret, you are just telling them how to use it. Second, I think giving someone poor instructions is just bad form. Seriously, I've seen too many effects sold with instructions that appear to be written by someone who has limited fluency in English.

I would recommend just covering the basic handling and simple effects. I wouldn't get into more advance effects because most of the people purchasing a Svengali deck aren't true magicians. Maybe you could reference some books or DVDs for further information.

Put a copyright symbol, the year and your name at the bottom (this allows you to claim a Copyright in your work) and put the store / stall's name somewhere on the sheet. If you can get the formatting right, the title "Svengali Deck Instructions and Tips" and the store's name (address, phone, etc.) would show on the face when you fold the sheet.

I also wouldn't recommend selling it. Just include it as a "Bonus" when you sell the deck. If you aren't the owner, the owner should love this idea because it makes the customer happier (not having to read instructions translated from a foreign language), it has the store / stall's name on it and provides references to additional material that they (presumably) can buy at the store / stall.

The Svengali deck is claimed to be invented by Burling Hull. In his book Sealed Mysteries (Copyright 1911) he claims a 1909 copyright on the Svengali Deck. There is a discussion of this in Jean Hugard's Encyclopedia of Card Tricks which has basic handling and some more advanced effects with Svengali Decks. Also, search the words "invention Svengali" on the Magic Cafe for a thread that has references to websites which discuss the background and history of the Svengali deck.
 
Jul 13, 2009
1,372
0
33
Wait don't you guys offer to teach the trick to the person who bought it? I know at the "Magic world" they have a curtained off area where they take their customers who buy tricks back and properly teach them how to do the effect.
 
Nov 15, 2007
1,106
2
35
Raleigh, NC
I see nothing wrong with it. I remember the instructions that came with the one I most recently bought, they were horrid. I already knew the basic work and have been messing with Svengali's for a while now so it didn't phase me as much.

It's also good to know someone is willing to help their customers as opposed to just sell them things loosely.

I'm also available to go over (double check spelling/grammar) the instructions if you want. (you can PM me)


I would recommend just covering the basic handling and simple effects. I wouldn't get into more advance effects because most of the people purchasing a Svengali deck aren't true magicians. Maybe you could reference some books or DVDs for further information.
.

Really?

Because if you can establish your credibility with a normal deck, and then use or let your spectator use, a Svengali then you have cut your work down while making everything extremely fair.

I personally have a spectator cut-to card effect that utilizes a Svengali, as well as a few other little tricks.

Maybe at a magic stand, where the Svengali decks are one of the more advertised (and non-bicycle) decks there aren't 'true' magicians...but everyone gets their start somewhere.

Just because you don't use a Svengali in your work doesn't mean it isn't a tool in other magicians toolboxes.
 

RealityOne

Elite Member
Nov 1, 2009
3,744
4,076
New Jersey
Wait don't you guys offer to teach the trick to the person who bought it? I know at the "Magic world" they have a curtained off area where they take their customers who buy tricks back and properly teach them how to do the effect.

A very good idea, but it is also good to have instructions to fall back on for reference.

Really?

Because if you can establish your credibility with a normal deck, and then use or let your spectator use, a Svengali then you have cut your work down while making everything extremely fair.

I personally have a spectator cut-to card effect that utilizes a Svengali, as well as a few other little tricks.

Maybe at a magic stand, where the Svengali decks are one of the more advertised (and non-bicycle) decks there aren't 'true' magicians...but everyone gets their start somewhere.

Just because you don't use a Svengali in your work doesn't mean it isn't a tool in other magicians toolboxes.

I wasn't saying that a "true" magician shouldn't use a Svengali. I actually believe the opposite -- a true magician should be open to using any means possible. I have and use a Svengali.

I was just guessing that most purchasers of a Svengali at a magic stand are casual passers by wanting to buy a "trick" (especially if it is a non-bicycle deck) and didn't think it was a good idea to get into teaching a lot of other effects beyond the basics.

I also agree that "everyone gets their start somewhere" which is why I suggested putting in recommendations of where to learn more about how to use a Svengali deck.
 
Sep 10, 2008
915
3
QLD, AUS
Thanks a lot for the input.

Maybe you should give them a free demo or free instructions before they leave?

Ideally, this would be the case, but since I'm working at a stall in a market, the amount of potential customers that I need to appeal to is quite high.
Though when it's slow, I do tutor customers who are willing to hang around.
 
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